Gender and Mental Health Issues

[Trifoilum]

In the feminism topic, I am engaged with some discussions regarding gender and how it is related to mental health issues.

The discussion was mostly talked around treatments, but I think we can expand it beyond and talk about mental health issues in general (diagnosis, symptoms, influences, treatments, supports) and how gender affected them?

So..yeah. Feel free to add the things you'd like to talk?

 

[Trifoilum]

Bringing the topic from there; I'd heard arguments claiming that there are less mental health support for men, or obstacles for them to take it.

Which I honestly have no anecdotal (I don't live in a country where mental healthcare are popular) nor statistical data.
It's well known in feminism circles that the present (Western) culture stigmatizes men also-- in a way, by pushing them away from seeking help until it's too late. Men who seek a professional help (read: cannot solve his own problems) are wimps or something uglier. I can easily see this playing a part in that, if true.
I can also see mental health practitioners applying gender biases in diagnosing mental health disorders (i.e, men are violent, women are dramatic) and that may result in misdiagnosing and/or ignoring a symptom until it's late.

And let's not even talk about the issues transgenders experienced...

OTOH, AFAIK the attempts to push better treatments for mental health issues are universal and almost gender-free, barring specific areas like sexual assaults or domestic violence. Those two are something that are very much a gendered issue, and the statistics are leaning to women.

So, I dunno. Any particular thoughts?

 

[Gerty]

Huh. The claim that mental health resources are geared toward women is certainly news to me. I never had trouble obtaining psychiatric care for my sons due to their gender, and have never seen a treatment center or practice where men are not allowed, but I'd be interested in learning about one.

I've known two men who committed suicide. Both had access to world-class mental health care. One quit his program because he didnt really believe he was addicted to oxy/heroin/you name it. The other refused to take his antidepressant because he read on the Internet that it can cause erectile dysfunction. Both men left young children behind with some pretty heinous scars.

I work with cancer patients, and depression and anxiety are as common as chemo-induced nausea and vomiting. The role changes are traumatic for both genders, but seem worse for the men. Not only do their wives have to care for them when they're physically weak; helpless, but the wife also has to become the sole breadwinner. The depression these men experience is almost palpable, but few of them are willing to see psych, or even trial an antidepressant. They do ask for Viagra, though. A lot.

Males supposedly react to stressors with "fight or flight," and women with "tend and befriend." Maybe this gender distinction is more societal than biological, and maybe the barriers to MH care are more from the men themselves and the role they're trapped in than any societal refusal to acknowledge a problem.

Perhaps a feminist (not effeminate) man would be less afraid of stepping out of his perceived gender role and asking for help...

 

[lenina]

"Manning-up" is different for men and women. When women ask for help for themselves, or on behalf of those weaker than themselves, they are doing what comes naturally to women, to ask for help. Asking for help is not "manning up" when a women does it, it's just being a woman. So when we tell men they should just ask for help, we aren't asking them to man up, we're asking them to woman up (there's nothing wrong with womaning up, being a woman is great, but we shouldn't be surprised if men resist such advice.)

Imagine if a women really needed help, and instead of asking for help, we told her to man-up, the way a man would. That would mean to NOT ask for help, and to deal with the problem on her own. That would be a cruel thing to suggest, cuz it wouldn't work for her.

So yes to me, asking for help is a feminine act, and not asking for help is a male act. Neither one is right or wrong, we just think differently.

So to really help men in need, those that care for them need to empower them by making them feel independent and capable rather than cherished and fragile.

My father in law had a heart procedure done recently. Rather than tell him that I will be there for him no matter what, which everyone was, which was agitating him, I told him I was really impressed by how strong he is. He actually smiled.

So I think mental health treatment that is gender free, may be missing a key component of the psyche of the person that needs help.

 

[Nixie]

So perhaps the stigma for mental health is greater for a man is what you are saying @lenina ? Historically, woman were always accused of having "fits" and being "emotionally unstable"---they used to prescribe laudanum (basically a liquid cocaine/heroin tonic) to "calm" woman's "nerves". Additionally, doctors used to give woman orgasms via manual stimulation as a cure for a woman's hysterical nature. Compound that by the bible vilifying Eve for her "sins" and you have a historic understanding of how woman and mental health issues stood at the turn of the century. Even today, while men are told to "man up", woman are told that they are being "drama queens". I think that although culture evolves, that entrenched attitudes are more difficult to identify because they are almost like social instinct.....most people are unaware of the myriad of messages they are bombarded with that strengthen the message throughout their lives.

 

[Mary Shelley]

I think the psychological problems that run along the women's side of my family are accepted by the family as a consequence of women aging. Depression and anxiety are common, Alzheimer seems to hit eventually, and some other undiagnosed things that may fall under "senility." While the men in my family may be even more reluctant to seek help from healthcare professionals, that these things are accepted both as a normal part of being female and a normal part of female aging make the women in my family even less likely to seek help for these issues.

 

[Elis]

I've heard that they tend to be a bit genderbiased regarding certain diagnoses, where women are, for example, more inclined to get a BPD diagnose than men with the same behaivour, and men with asperger and NPD.

 

[lenina]

@Nixie That's interesting. It seems that in the past mental health solutions were not geared to the needs of women. Women were accused of having fits, as in, people wanted them to just shut up and deal with their own problems, women were being asked to man up or else. They were also given sexual solutions to emotional problems. Which if you read Gerty's post, men seem to think really does help people get through emotionally tough times, hence men asking a lot for Viagra. In the past women were treated with male-centric solutions. As I said in my post, it is cruel to do that to a woman. As it is to treat men with female-centric solutions which is what is happening in the present. Cruel and ineffective.

 

[Skarekrow]

There is certainly a gender disparity between men and women in the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. We are all inclined to our own gender-bias, even minuscule, and it would be silly to think that didn’t exist with mental health professionals. But, there are differences in how men and women think and function be it through our hormones and brain chemistry, all the way to the gender roles our parents and society has taught us from birth. Statistically speaking, women predominate anxiety, depression, and insomnia according to WHO....but is that really because they are more likely due to the chemistry differences, the acceptable gender-roles, or is one sex more liberally diagnosed? WHO lists unipolar depression as being twice as common in women than in men....1 in 5 men have issues with alcohol dependency while it only effects 1 in 12 women....men are also three times as likely to be diagnosed with an antisocial personality disorder than women.
So is there a real difference or is it all gender bias? Interestingly enough, when you look at severe mental health disorders such as true bipolar disorder and schizophrenia there is no difference between the two sexes...which could almost suggest that a lot of it has to do with gender based roles, stressors, the negative life experiences and events, and the subsequent negative reactions to it (mental health disorders).
Gender specific risk factors for common mental disorders that disproportionately affect women include gender based violence, socioeconomic disadvantage, low income and income inequality, low or subordinate social status and rank and unremitting responsibility for the care of others.
The high prevalence of sexual violence to which women are exposed and the correspondingly high rate of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) following such violence, renders women the largest single group of people affected by this disorder.
Statistically, women are more likely to seek help from and disclose mental health problems to their primary health care physician while men are more likely to seek specialist mental health care and are the principal users of inpatient care.
Here is some factual info for you:

• Depressive disorders account for close to 41.9% of the disability from neuropsychiatric disorders among women compared to 29.3% among men.

• Leading mental health problems of older adults are depression, organic brain syndromes and dementias. A majority are women.

• An estimated 80% of 50 million people affected by violent conflicts, civil wars, disasters, and displacement are women and children.

• Lifetime prevalence rate of violence against women ranges from 16% to 50%.

• At least one in five women suffer rape or attempted rape in their lifetime.

 

[LifesWonderer]

How 'excessive' male sensitivity can be a symptom of neurosis or a worse mental health condition whereas a women may be 'oppressed' if they seem less emotional.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Is the emotional turmoil, which occurs in what is abbreviated PMS considered a recurring mental health issue?

 

[Trifoilum]

Okay so, I had a discussion in another group I'm frequenting after this, and I come with data.
http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poor-mental-health-by-gender/

(in the United States, at least.)

if you look at these statistics, the percentage of women *reporting* mental illness is higher. Now, *occurrence* and *reporting* are two different things, and part of what might keep men from seeking help is the idea that men are supposed to suffer through in silence. Again, I reiterate, a PATRIARCHAL idea heavily linked to traditional notions of gender roles. But if more women are going to report their mental illness, than naturally there are going to be more resources for them!

I would find this echoing with [MENTION=9465]Gerty[/MENTION] 's story (thank you for telling! And my sympathies for the two men and their close ones); if this is true and mental healthcare is leaning towards women, they are probably due to the law of supply and demand. Of course, the fact that a lot of men are suffering from mental health disorders must not be ignored, and that in itself is another potential supply things. But I'm thinking that would take a separate set of solutions.

They do ask for Viagra, though. A lot.

This is interesting if not a bit entertaining; does this mean that a lot of men are trying to solve their mental health problems via sex? Are they considering this as only 'problems of the heart', one that good sex / orgasm will cure / alleviate?

 

[Trifoilum]

I think the psychological problems that run along the women's side of my family are accepted by the family as a consequence of women aging. Depression and anxiety are common, Alzheimer seems to hit eventually, and some other undiagnosed things that may fall under "senility." While the men in my family may be even more reluctant to seek help from healthcare professionals, that these things are accepted both as a normal part of being female and a normal part of female aging make the women in my family even less likely to seek help for these issues.

I've heard that they tend to be a bit genderbiased regarding certain diagnoses, where women are, for example, more inclined to get a BPD diagnose than men with the same behaivour, and men with asperger and NPD.

There is certainly a gender disparity between men and women in the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. We are all inclined to our own gender-bias, even minuscule, and it would be silly to think that didn’t exist with mental health professionals. But, there are differences in how men and women think and function be it through our hormones and brain chemistry, all the way to the gender roles our parents and society has taught us from birth. Statistically speaking, women predominate anxiety, depression, and insomnia according to WHO....but is that really because they are more likely due to the chemistry differences, the acceptable gender-roles, or is one sex more liberally diagnosed? WHO lists unipolar depression as being twice as common in women than in men....1 in 5 men have issues with alcohol dependency while it only effects 1 in 12 women....men are also three times as likely to be diagnosed with an antisocial personality disorder than women.
So is there a real difference or is it all gender bias? Interestingly enough, when you look at severe mental health disorders such as true bipolar disorder and schizophrenia there is no difference between the two sexes...which could almost suggest that a lot of it has to do with gender based roles, stressors, the negative life experiences and events, and the subsequent negative reactions to it (mental health disorders).
Gender specific risk factors for common mental disorders that disproportionately affect women include gender based violence, socioeconomic disadvantage, low income and income inequality, low or subordinate social status and rank and unremitting responsibility for the care of others.
The high prevalence of sexual violence to which women are exposed and the correspondingly high rate of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) following such violence, renders women the largest single group of people affected by this disorder.
Statistically, women are more likely to seek help from and disclose mental health problems to their primary health care physician while men are more likely to seek specialist mental health care and are the principal users of inpatient care.
Here is some factual info for you:

• Depressive disorders account for close to 41.9% of the disability from neuropsychiatric disorders among women compared to 29.3% among men.

• Leading mental health problems of older adults are depression, organic brain syndromes and dementias. A majority are women.

• An estimated 80% of 50 million people affected by violent conflicts, civil wars, disasters, and displacement are women and children.

• Lifetime prevalence rate of violence against women ranges from 16% to 50%.

• At least one in five women suffer rape or attempted rape in their lifetime.

Thank you. I think I remembered reading that women had definitely a higher risk for depression. But the question is there; is the judgment biased towards genders and their stereotype? (we may skirt towards another problem of psychiatry and psychology; the ever-so-growing phenomenon of diagnosing)

At one hand the potential is there, but at the same time we all feel the impact of gender roles in our lives; even for those who rebelled away from it, to say our lives weren't influenced by gender roles and expectations would be misleading.

Of course like @sentientsixpiece 's experience, the personal understanding of a patient / a group of patient also will affect whether they will even go to be diagnosed or not.

 

[Trifoilum]

So yes to me, asking for help is a feminine act, and not asking for help is a male act. Neither one is right or wrong, we just think differently.

So to really help men in need, those that care for them need to empower them by making them feel independent and capable rather than cherished and fragile.

I think I get what you mean (a lot of psychological procedure must in some ways help and suits the patients' decision making capability and respects it-- and people's psyche are, again, shaped by gender roles)
But at the same time I would say in this aspect, not only that mental healthcare practitioners should consider gender roles but that-- the stigma around the masculine act of not asking for help / not willing to be vulnerable is damaging.
Especially around psychological issues where a lot of it is in regards of memories, how we perceive things, and how we cope with things. The unwillingness to seek help (which I perceive is rooted in the unwillingness to be vulnerable and the resulting stigma) will only damage people, regardless of gender.
I would also argue that this gender role to not seek help is damaging the very first step of acknowledging there is a problem, especially because mental health disorders are much less obvious compared to drug abuse and alcoholism and cigarette abuse.

I would argue that in terms of psychiatry, we should probably aim for both gender roles; aim to empower people to both seek help and make decisions for themselves.
But in terms of feminism and culture, that very system that declared asking help is 'for women'; and the implicit but nonetheless stark assumption that anything womanly is bad must be fought.

(I have to echo this with [MENTION=3096]Nixie[/MENTION]'s point re: old values.)

It is good to remember that a significant part of why mental asylums were first erected *dum tssh* was to provide a solitary place for-- guess what, hysteric women. So from the beginning there was a value that considered 'hysteria' a female trait. To say that

mental health solutions were not geared to the needs of women

would be slightly off; they were initially GEARED to the needs of women only-- only women required treatment. At that time, I tend to believe that the idea is that men NEVER or SHOULD NOT need any treatment. Only madmen and the so-called lunatics are admitted to asylums; while women had a variety of nuanced symptoms. (it changed with WWI and the advent of PTSD.)

 

[Gerty]

[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION] -
I wondered why Viagra was such a hot commodity with these men, and came up with a few hypotheses:
1) they aren't allowed to have sex until their platelets recover to at least 50k. Imagine a massive orgasm increasing cerebrovascular pressure enough to where they have a hemorrhagic stroke. After that, they are supposed to use barrier methods until they're off immunosuppressants to protect their partners. All the meds tend to lead to ED. Imagine waiting six months to have sex with your wife or girlfriend, only to find that the damn thing won't stand up!

2) They may feel emasculated after months of helplessly watching their wives/SO's shoulder all the responsibilities which define a "good husband" for many people. I think the depression they experience is a lot more faceted than perceived loss of "manhood," but I would bet that this powerlessness is the factor most troubling for many of them, and a nice roll in the sheets could possibly help them feel like men again.

Males are perplexing creatures. It's strange for me to imagine that talking to a shrink would be avoided/embarrassing due to perceptions of "unmanliness," but seeking treatment for ED is no problem at all. Not all men are this way, of course, but it isn't uncommon in my (admittedly limited) experience.

They do usually seem much more cheerful after obtaining the Viagra script, so maybe it's more effective than I thought.

 

[Trifoilum]

How 'excessive' male sensitivity can be a symptom of neurosis or a worse mental health condition whereas a women may be 'oppressed' if they seem less emotional.

I agreed. Aside from the social stigma (which can make things worse), there can be a misdiagnosing and/or a bias affecting a diagnosis of a man compared to a woman in regards of emotional expression.

Is the emotional turmoil, which occurs in what is abbreviated PMS considered a recurring mental health issue?

It would really depend on whether the turmoil are affecting her life and people around her or not.

 

[Trifoilum]

@Trifoilum -
I wondered why Viagra was such a hot commodity with these men, and came up with a few hypotheses:
1) they aren't allowed to have sex until their platelets recover to at least 50k. Imagine a massive orgasm increasing cerebrovascular pressure enough to where they have a hemorrhagic stroke. After that, they are supposed to use barrier methods until they're off immunosuppressants to protect their partners. All the meds tend to lead to ED. Imagine waiting six months to have sex with your wife or girlfriend, only to find that the damn thing won't stand up!

2) They may feel emasculated after months of helplessly watching their wives/SO's shoulder all the responsibilities which define a "good husband" for many people. I think the depression they experience is a lot more faceted than perceived loss of "manhood," but I would bet that this powerlessness is the factor most troubling for many of them, and a nice roll in the sheets could possibly help them feel like men again.

Males are perplexing creatures. It's strange for me to imagine that talking to a shrink would be avoided/embarrassing due to perceptions of "unmanliness," but seeking treatment for ED is no problem at all. Not all men are this way, of course, but it isn't uncommon in my (admittedly limited) experience.

They do usually seem much more cheerful after obtaining the Viagra script, so maybe it's more effective than I thought.

Well, everyone is perplexing but we are perplexing in sometimes different ways-- and as far as understanding goes, it's important.

Those theories seem interesting; I probably cannot and won't ascribe one theory as the answer for all situations like the ones you described, but I can see both of them taking a part to play.

 

[this is only temporary]

[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION] -
I wondered why Viagra was such a hot commodity with these men, and came up with a few hypotheses:
1) they aren't allowed to have sex until their platelets recover to at least 50k. Imagine a massive orgasm increasing cerebrovascular pressure enough to where they have a hemorrhagic stroke. After that, they are supposed to use barrier methods until they're off immunosuppressants to protect their partners. All the meds tend to lead to ED. Imagine waiting six months to have sex with your wife or girlfriend, only to find that the damn thing won't stand up!

2) They may feel emasculated after months of helplessly watching their wives/SO's shoulder all the responsibilities which define a "good husband" for many people. I think the depression they experience is a lot more faceted than perceived loss of "manhood," but I would bet that this powerlessness is the factor most troubling for many of them, and a nice roll in the sheets could possibly help them feel like men again.

Males are perplexing creatures. It's strange for me to imagine that talking to a shrink would be avoided/embarrassing due to perceptions of "unmanliness," but seeking treatment for ED is no problem at all. Not all men are this way, of course, but it isn't uncommon in my (admittedly limited) experience.

They do usually seem much more cheerful after obtaining the Viagra script, so maybe it's more effective than I thought.

Have you ever seen the victorian cure for women's hysteria? (Mental health issue du jour circa 1890 something.) Vibrators. Yep. Read it and crack up: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201303/hysteria-and-the-strange-history-vibrators


So the moral of that story is that both genders... well, you figure it out.

Also, beyond getting laid well and often, I really don't think men need to get so stressed out about needing help sometimes or not being the sole/bestest breadwinner, as you mentioned in your earlier post, gerty. I have observed that phenomenon as well. Sometimes we all need help, that's all.

 

[Mary Shelley]

Have you ever seen the victorian cure for women's hysteria? (Mental health issue du jour circa 1890 something.) Vibrators. Yep. Read it and crack up: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201303/hysteria-and-the-strange-history-vibrators

Something good had to come from it.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Is the emotional turmoil, which occurs in what is abbreviated PMS considered a recurring mental health issue?

It would really depend on whether the turmoil are affecting her life and people around her or not.

Just from experience, I would say that most (more that 70%) of women' PMS does affect them and those around them. It is almost as though the people close to them either have to "tip toe on egg shells", or become "emotional door-mats".

As per most mental health issues, those subject to them may not reliably acknowledge the extent of their mental health issue.