gender and cleaning

[alice144]

Did you grow up in a house with both girls and boys? What was your family's approach to cleaning?

I had one brother, and my parents standards for my cleanliness were much higher for me than for him. To this day, my brother leaves empty plates around the house, never does his dishes or even cleans his room, but somehow this is acceptable for him, but not for me.

I've also noticed, from living with older women, that they can be almost sadistic in their insistence on a strict cleaning regimen. It's like they were forced to clean all the time as kids, and now that they're older, they want to put us through all that same pain and misery.

Back when I worked at a pool, one of our duties as lifeguards were to pick up dirty towels. The girls were much more conscientious about it than the guys; I had to badger them sometimes to make them do it. Eventually we realized that we were getting shafted and decided to let the place go to rot; if the guys decided to do their share, we would do ours.

I've heard some really misogynistic comments on this stuff too. I had one coworker (supposedly jokingly) refer to cleaning up as 'women's work', and another proclaim that making sure the cleaning was properly delegated was of such minor importance that it was beneath him.

Personally, I hate cleaning, and categorically refuse to clean up someone else's mess, ever. I prefer to live in filth, if only to make a point. On the other hand, I appreciate a clean living space and have always kept my room neat.

Did your parents make you clean? How do you feel about housework?

 

[This]

Well, growing up my sister and I were exact opposite in this regard of what you describe here. My parents never put much emphasis on it though. basically they were just happy if everything looked clean for guests and shit. I have OCD tendencies though, so maybe that's the difference.

 

[jyrffw54]

I grew up with two brothers and an older sister.

When my dad first took me in, I was pretty much Cinderella for a few years, but when I turned seven, the chores started evening out.
We took turns doing dishes, scrubbing the bathroom, vacuuming, laundry, taking out the trash. But, to this day, I ALWAYS do the sweeping.

I hate cleaning, manly since its never in the forefront of my mind. I don't like things being dirty/overly messy, ,so I just endure it.

 

[this is only temporary]

Did you grow up in a house with both girls and boys? What was your family's approach to cleaning?

I had one brother, and my parents standards for my cleanliness were much higher for me than for him. To this day, my brother leaves empty plates around the house, never does his dishes or even cleans his room, but somehow this is acceptable for him, but not for me.

One brother is a chronic slob, the other is a neat freak. I am rather on the neat side.

I've also noticed, from living with older women, that they can be almost sadistic in their insistence on a strict cleaning regimen. It's like they were forced to clean all the time as kids, and now that they're older, they want to put us through all that same pain and misery.

Yeah, that's because they used to get awards for this sort of thing. Really, they did! Very status-y and competitive about it. I don't think it is quite as much about inflicting pain and misery as it is about living up to strict standards.

Back when I worked at a pool, one of our duties as lifeguards were to pick up dirty towels. The girls were much more conscientious about it than the guys; I had to badger them sometimes to make them do it. Eventually we realized that we were getting shafted and decided to let the place go to rot; if the guys decided to do their share, we would do ours.

I've heard some really misogynistic comments on this stuff too. I had one coworker (supposedly jokingly) refer to cleaning up as 'women's work', and another proclaim that making sure the cleaning was properly delegated was of such minor importance that it was beneath him.

People should clean up their own messes, imo. It's incredibly inconsiderate to others to leave huge messes behind and shows you what kind of person you are dealing with if they actually take pride in this sort of thing or think it is beneath them. If you encounter that attitude? Run. Run fast. Even leaving too much for the maids to clean up in a hotel room seems unfriendly to me.

Personally, I hate cleaning, and categorically refuse to clean up someone else's mess, ever. I prefer to live in filth, if only to make a point. On the other hand, I appreciate a clean living space and have always kept my room neat.

Did your parents make you clean? How do you feel about housework?

Yes, and I don't mind cleaning, because having a clean and aesthetically pleasing environment makes people happier and makes life run smoother. I also think ironed sheets are the height of luxury. People generally appreciate having clean and folded laundry, made up beds, a tidy kitchen and regular hot meals, and all those kinds of thing mean you don't have to run around like a crazy person looking for your misplaced stuff or deal with smelly rotten food, or bugs, or overflowing trash bags, or nasty mold in the bathrooms. Who needs that sort of stress? It ruins the whole energy of a place. It even extends to pet care -- pet care is a sort of cleaning too. When people refuse to do basic cleaning, it just shows a lack of love, or maybe an illness, to me. I'm not talking about OCD clean-freakiness. I would not tolerate constantly having to clean up other people's messes if they refuse to pitch in, but will happily do lots of routine cleaning.

 

[christmas]

yeah, my dad grew up in a home with strictly assigned gender roles. it became a super huge problem living at our family home because my mother is extremely career-oriented and didn't have time for housework. our house always was a wreck. most of my parents' arguments were about housework. dad didn't really do any. dads is also extremely sloppy and inefficient.

when i became older dad expected me to clean up after him and my mother. it was not happening. MOAR FIGHT. to get me to clean he'd blame me for making messes that i didn't. even when i moved out he wouldn't pick up any slack. here's a funny instance: a family member noticed that the trash needed to be taken to the curb, and my father replied, "that's christmas' job." lololol, i hadn't lived there for a year at that time. for a while the house looked like it needed to be condemned because my mother just hoards things and is a compulsive shopper. they seem to have gotten it under control in the past year or so. i'm really happy for them.

i told them if the house was a mess when they kicked the bucket, i'd set it on fire 'cuz i ain't cleaning it.

 

[jyrffw54]

yeah, my dad grew up in a home with strictly assigned gender roles. it became a super huge problem living at our family home because my mother is extremely career-oriented and didn't have time for housework. our house always was a wreck. most of my parents' arguments were about housework. dad didn't really do any. dads is also extremely sloppy and inefficient.

when i became older dad expected me to clean up after him and my mother. it was not happening. MOAR FIGHT. to get me to clean he'd blame me for making messes that i didn't. even when i moved out he wouldn't pick up any slack. here's a funny instance: a family member noticed that the trash needed to be taken to the curb, and my father replied, "that's christmas' job." lololol, i hadn't lived there for a year at that time. for a while the house looked like it needed to be condemned because my mother just hoards things and is a compulsive shopper. they seem to have gotten it under control in the past year or so. i'm really happy for them.

i told them if the house was a mess when they kicked the bucket, i'd set it on fire 'cuz i ain't cleaning it.

Rofl! I know EXACTLY what she's talking about^

We can sort out the things of value and then burn down the house. Preferably when no one's watching XD

 

[Tin Man]

Just one brother who's pretty messy but isn't a slob. My father is somewhat conscientious so he makes sure things are kept clean, whereas my mother only cares when there's company. I was pretty untidy until I started living on my own. I'm the one who has to suffer when there's a mess, so I generally keep my place tidy.

Back when I worked at a pool, one of our duties as lifeguards were to pick up dirty towels. The girls were much more conscientious about it than the guys; I had to badger them sometimes to make them do it. Eventually we realized that we were getting shafted and decided to let the place go to rot; if the guys decided to do their share, we would do ours.

That reminds me of a couple I knew, the guy was a slacker and never cleaned so eventually his partner decided to just let all the dirt pile up. Unfortunately he didn't care, even when it got to the point where their place looked like a landfill. She couldn't stand it any more and spent weeks cleaning the mess.

 

[Vict]

Mom did most of the cleaning. The household was her and five guys (pop + four boys). The one who bitched more about messes and poor upkeep was pop, whereas our mom just cleaned and moved along. I think they split the work more evenly these days.

I personally keep my apartments clean and in order, and if someone stays over and wants to pitch in she can have at it.

There're no qualms with staying over someplace if it's a sty. Not my place, not my problem.

 

[Billy]

3 boys growing up, it was always a mess.

 

[Nixie]

Four females and one brother. The brother was the second youngest with 3 older sisters. There is a 17 year age difference between the youngest and oldest in my family. My brother is 14 years younger than me. The littlest is 16 years younger. I would say that among Natives that there are still strong gender defined roles. My brother cannot cook worth shit but he is used to pitching in and helping. Mom kept the house clean. I started to cook for the family when I was 12. The oldest was the babysitter cause she was good with kids. The middle girl is a flakey ES(T/F)P and you couldn't get her to do anything most of the time because she was wrapped up in her own little world. The two youngest had it tough because they basically had 3 moms--mom, sis, and me. They were spoiled.

In our house, everyone pitches in. I never felt like it was assigned along gender roles.

 

[sassafras]

I grew up with one older brother in the household, but any differences in expectations of our cleanliness and type of chores were a matter of age, rather than gender. For instance, my brother would be in charge of cutting the lawn, washing/fixing the cars and vacuuming because those were heavy-duty jobs more age appropriate for an 18 year old boy than a 6 year old little girl. However, when I was born, he was in charge of taking care of me. Changing diapers, giving me baths, playing with me, reading to me, and other traditionally 'female' responsibilities. When he moved out of the house to live with his then girlfriend at 20, I took on his additional responsibilities and because my father was a) never at home and b) generally rather incompetent in all manner of 'hands on work,' the traditional 'male' work was split between my mother and I.

Over all, everyone in my family is a bit OCD about cleanliness. My dad is the only one of us who isn't as organized, but you can't say he isn't tidy either. You don't have to walk around the house picking up for him and when he does have a mess, he keeps it limited to his workspace.

 

[JGirl]

i grew up in a very large family and unless you figured out how to blend into the wall or disappear away from the house you were cleaning something.
my mother used to say if i see you i will put you to work, and by gosh she kept her word!
it always annoyed me that she never did any of it herself. hmmm
edit to add, when i was growing up (in the sixties) gender roles were much more defined, although even then that was changing. not in my home however.
girls did all the work inside and boys took out garbage mowed the lawn, walked the dog etc

to this day i cannot watch a man sweep a floor. it drives me crazy cuz they do not know how to use a broom effectively
i don't care.
that's just the way i feel dammit.

 

[Jill Hives]

I am an adopted only child. This may or may not have anything to do with why I was raised the way I was, but it might, so I included the info just in case. My parents hardly ever made me do ANYTHING. I actually resent them for it somewhat, because my sense of personal responsibility and work ethic was seriously lacking for a while. It still is lacking majorly, but I've been working on it. I actually remember a specific incident where I was about 7 and asked my mom if I could vacuum the living room for her and she flat out told me no. WHO DOES THAT?!?! I want my kids to help me with everything! That is how people learn! My guess is that my mom pretty much just wanted to control how the chores were done. So she did/does it all herself and didn't care if I or my dad helped. If I did a chore, she just did it over again and it made me feel like it was pointless for me to have done the work in the first place.

The dynamics that go on in my parents house regarding dinners and house work make me crazy. My dad does nothing. He works from home in front of a computer for 8 hours of the day on weekdays, and then that's it. That is his work. He does nothing else. He expects my mother to bring him his lunches to his desk, or he won't even think to feed himself over half the time.

But they've been living this way for years, so it is what they know and what they are comfortable with. They might be happy living like that but I sure as hell would not be. Thankfully my husband is not like this at all. We both do equal amounts of work when we are living together, cannot wait until I am back with him.

 

[Whiskers]

I was an only child. My mother enforced a strict cleaning regimen on me, specifically reinforcing it as a necessity for "little girls" (as opposed to little boys) to help keep an extremely clean house as to not "bring shame to the family". Even when I was very young I didn't buy into the double standard, and as an adult (in my own apartment) I would consider myself somewhat untidy. I tend to have a lot of clutter on my desk, but I draw the line at unsanitary messes (i.e. I'll take out the garbage and wash dishes promptly).

For a period of time I lived with my boyfriend's family, and his father has some 'traditional' ideas with regards to chore divisions. While he made a substantial amount of mess himself, he would always attempt to pawn chores on his daughter or myself. While I'm willing to do my share, I refuse to clean up after a grown man who thinks he's somehow above washing his own dishes. The kitchen tended to be a sty, but on principle I wouldn't do his work for him as to not reinforce a pattern I don't agree with.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Keeping a house clean seems more important to women than men - especially the bathroom.

Let each and every person focus on what is important to him/her.

 

[Untitled]

That reminds me of a couple I knew, the guy was a slacker and never cleaned so eventually his partner decided to just let all the dirt pile up. Unfortunately he didn't care, even when it got to the point where their place looked like a landfill. She couldn't stand it any more and spent weeks cleaning the mess.

I did this very same thing to my ex. I was working, studying and playing shows. He came home and watched tv. Still he considered it was my job to clean, shop for groceries and cook. I went on strike. Strangely it was female friends who got the most upset when they came over and it was them being upset with ME. I cleared my own mess. I just refused to play maid to a grown man who seemed to think I had nothing better to do. I got a lot of "good tips" from everyone. It was really revealing to me.
I think it's a generally thought of as women's work. I've come accross some people even on my tour that assume since I'm the only woman there I'll be cooking and cleaning. they give me the food money and show me around the acommodation to come look at washing machines and things. I really have to bite my tongue at times. I inform them about the fact I won't be doing any type of a free maid service though.

 

[barbad0s]

My parents hardly ever made me do ANYTHING. I actually resent them for it somewhat, because my sense of personal responsibility and work ethic was seriously lacking for a while. It still is lacking majorly, but I've been working on it. I actually remember a specific incident where I was about 7 and asked my mom if I could vacuum the living room for her and she flat out told me no. WHO DOES THAT?!?! I want my kids to help me with everything! That is how people learn! My guess is that my mom pretty much just wanted to control how the chores were done. So she did/does it all herself and didn't care if I or my dad helped. If I did a chore, she just did it over again and it made me feel like it was pointless for me to have done the work in the first place.

This was pretty much the same case for me growing up, as an only child as well. I was really left behind when it came to practical skills like this, compared to my peers. I learned how to cook and do chores by learning from my peers and the interwebs, because my mom was that paranoid and controlling regarding the housework at home. She would barely let my dad do any work for her, let alone me (and she works too), and she always complained to us about being bogged down by work and demeaned us for it. I was always told that I was messy and irresponsible (I hate being called irresponsible) and I always got into fights about it with my parents, and my family has always tried to drill it into my head that girls should be neat and tidy. I hated my mom trying to move things around in my room, so I kept it messy as a kind of power struggle thing. I quite enjoy cleaning now because being able to is like an exotic luxury in some ways, compared to back then.... even in others houses when I'm not the host, or situations like that, I make a point to try to help out. I find routine work like that mildly mentally stimulating, and I relish the satisfaction of being able to get small tasks like that done. Most of all, it satisfies me to be seen as capable, and for me to see myself as useful. When I lived on my own I kept things spotless, but now that I'm back at home I'm starting to get messier. I recently asked my mom if she would now let me do the majority of the chores for the house, since she perhaps trusts me more now that I've managed to do fine on my own, but still... she says I must do "her method" and she insists on supervising me for certain things.

 

[894tt3h9]

I just had myself and my younger sister in the house with my parents. We were very rarely made to do any chores at all. I think there were a select few times we were asked to do the dishes which I had a huge aversion to because washing other people's food (even if we had ate the same thing) disgusted me beyond belief. I have a very specific way I like to do dishes and don't have a problem with it now, but back then I hated it.

I was never taught to cook, never taught to clean, never taught to do my own laundry. I never cleaned my own bedroom or did any other sort of chores around the house and neither did my sister. My dad was the stay at home dad while my mom was the one working and my dad did all of the cleaning that he could manage with his disability - mostly any task that could be done standing (nothing like getting on his hands and knees like scrubbing floors or anything because he has partial paralysis). So he did all the lawn mowing, shoveling, vacuuming, sweeping, dishes, cleaning all the counter surfaces, etc. My father had the expectation that there would be NO CLUTTER EVER. That was the only thing he was on about. My mom, sister and I don't really care about it but he was on our case so we obliged him.

I think the reason my sister and I weren't made to do chores was because it was what my dad could do to contribute to the household. He felt a lot of guilt over not being able to work anymore due to a brain aneurysm and felt that if he couldn't provide financially for his family that he should at least be home to take care of the house.

Now being an adult I am not big on cleaning. I do not like a mess and I hate other people's messes but I would say that my apartment looks lived in rather than spotless. I live with two boys in a one bedroom place haha. You can imagine...

 

[alice144]

Let each and every person focus on what is important to him/her.

As long as each person is doing an equal portion of the housework...

 

[Sriracha]

My parents equally shared chores, yes they may have been a little gender specific, but it worked for them. I have an older brother and sister. We were all responsible for cleaning our own rooms (laundering sheets, putting away our clean clothes, vacuum and dusting.) We each had one other task we would have to do (pick up dog poo, vacuum living/family area .. and something else...don't remember.) This was done every Saturday morning. I remember how much my mother was pleased with my cleanliness. During summer I would clean the entire house almost daily (to the point of taking the wrinkles out of the couch cushions). I look back and reflect on this ... I believe I did this b/c it maintained harmony. It was one less thing my mother had to worry about and it always put her in a good mood (she obviously never responded well to a messy house.) Thus begun my conditioning to believe that a clean house feels good.

I am the most tidy of my siblings (they are all clean, but not to my level.) I do the majority of the cleaning in my home (including yard work) and I stay on top of it so it doesn't get out of control. My husband has his designated chores (upstairs bathrooms, edging the lawn, paying the bills and sometimes starting laundry.)

My kids are just now beginning to pick up some responsibilities as well. It's funny to hear them argue. The ISTJ is always complaining that the ENFP is not doing his share ... the ENFP continues to play until I assist him with picking things up. The ISTJ can be very organized like me, while the ENFP doesn't care (he's my little tornado.) It doesn't matter, everything has to be fair ... that is most important.