fights and arguments

[Shaz]

I was answering the arguing style test when I started writing something long so I thought I would start a new thread.


Do you fight or argue a lot with your partner?

I've been with my boyfriend for a year and 3 months and we've never fought. We had small arguments that were never agressive, and a lot of discussions but nothing I would call fight. I sulked a bit once :mrgreen: . He's an INTP. Very healthy one.

I used to date an XNTJ though and we would argue all the time. HE WAS SO DAMN STUBBORN and thought he knew how everything worked so much better than me (being 29 when I was 18 helped :mrgreen. I also felt insecure because he didn't care about me as much as I did, and that's why I was much more defensive myself than I can be with anyone else. That's also why we broke up.

I don't think I could date a J. Even an NFJ...

 

[Silently Honest]

I don't think I could date a J. Even an NFJ...

It's just not right.

Seriously the amount of needless bickering and pain brought by many SJ relationships tell me this.

 

[CokeNut]

Jax and I fight all the time ... but never agressive. Just stuff like me getting worked up over something and then I cool down and that's it. He's gotten mad at me a few times, but after a bit he realizes that life without me would be so very terribly boring and so he cools down and that's it. :mrgreen:

 

[Entyqua]

My DH is an Ixtx he fluctuates on those two x's and we usually work very well together but if either on of us is in an emotionally unhealthy state we bicker like nobody's business..when life is in harmony so are we when life goes ballistic so to do we...

 

[alcyone]

Oh yeah. You aren't married to someone for 9 years without plenty of altercation. Most of our arguements stem from a lack of clear communication about feelings. And its usually him not being able to understand what I am feeling. No matter how I try to explain, translate into 'male', try and get him to relate to my situation, I just can't get him to understand that feelings aren't logical (or rational) and can't be fixed. I get really frusterated when he takes everything in black and white. Its either all horribly bad or everything is peachy keen. Trying to explain that my feelings generally run in shade of gray for some reason isn't acceptable.

I am generally not the kind of person who seeks or looks for a fight. But there are a few things that will set me off the deep end.
The biggest of them is money. I like some security....if something major happens we have a few thousand in the savings account to cover the unexpected expenses. My husband is offended by money remaining in our accounts. This has caused quite a few fights over the years. Now whenever he is apart from us he opens his own accounts and gets an monthly allowance.
The other big beef is lying and deception. He quit smoking in like 06 and was good until he left for retraining in Texas. Well, he started up again and decided instead of just telling me, he'd try to hide it and instructed all his friends to keep quiet about it.

 

[Lurker]

I don't think I could date a J. Even an NFJ...

I don't understand. Why?

 

[frozen_water]

I just can't get him to understand that feelings aren't logical (or rational) and can't be fixed. I get really frusterated when he takes everything in black and white. Its either all horribly bad or everything is peachy keen. Trying to explain that my feelings generally run in shade of gray for some reason isn't acceptable.

My emotions, too, tend to run in black and white... I can't pick out the subtle shades of "kind of upset" or "a little" of anything. If things aren't "completely horrible" and something bad has happened, it's only because that specific thing is "completely horrible" and everything else is good. It's kind of like if your overall emotional state were a square, and white was "good" and black was "bad" (in some way), the bad part would be a quarantined black area within the white whole, rather than a diffuse light-gray spread throughout. When friends ask how I've been (assuming they're not just trying to make small talk--blegh) its like I stop and consider whether the little black area is big enough to bother mentioning at all. If it is (and the other person shows a lot of care/wants to help) the nuances of what makes it bad can consume the conversation, leading to people thinking I'm horribly upset... where if I don't mention it they assume everything's been going pretty well. Subtleties and gray emotions aren't very comprehensible because everything is so compartmentalized.

He's an INTP. Very healthy one.

Out of curiosity what do you mean when you say healthy INTP? What makes them healthy?

 

[Shai Gar]

I just can't get him to understand that feelings aren't logical (or rational) and can't be fixed. I get really frusterated when he takes everything in black and white. Its either all horribly bad or everything is peachy keen. Trying to explain that my feelings generally run in shade of gray for some reason isn't acceptable.

My emotions, too, tend to run in black and white... I can't pick out the subtle shades of "kind of upset" or "a little" of anything. If things aren't "completely horrible" and something bad has happened, it's only because that specific thing is "completely horrible" and everything else is good. It's kind of like if your overall emotional state were a square, and white was "good" and black was "bad" (in some way), the bad part would be a quarantined black area within the white whole, rather than a diffuse light-gray spread throughout. When friends ask how I've been (assuming they're not just trying to make small talk--blegh) its like I stop and consider whether the little black area is big enough to bother mentioning at all. If it is (and the other person shows a lot of care/wants to help) the nuances of what makes it bad can consume the conversation, leading to people thinking I'm horribly upset... where if I don't mention it they assume everything's been going pretty well. Subtleties and gray emotions aren't very comprehensible because everything is so compartmentalized.

[quote:2f0s1gml]He's an INTP. Very healthy one.

Out of curiosity what do you mean when you say healthy INTP? What makes them healthy?[/quote:2f0s1gml]
fresh air, exercise, good diet, good genes

 

[Quinlan]

My argument style is;

1. Silent treatment
2. Being a smartass/making snide comments
3. Making the other person laugh

 

[alcyone]

Frozen~ The analogy regarding boxing up and compartmentalizing your emotions is very good.

I just do not do that. My emotional state flows around and colors every other thing going on at the emotionally charged time. I can't divide myself that way. It probably would make life easier for him if I could, but I wouldn't be me if I changed myself so radically.

It's not always a good thing, but its not a bad thing either. When I'm in a good mood those same emotions color everything around me, and when I'm with my friends, I can usually pull them out of whatever funk they are in.

 

[frozen_water]

aww thanks. And no no no... I'd never suggest you try to change your emotions like that. In fact I wouldn't have even looked up an infj forum unless I thought that you understood them a whole lot better than I could... it's a fundamental assumption of mine that ignoring or misunderstanding reality only brings harm in the end, and I think that your Ni-Fe strength means that you all should know their nature better than anyone else, so if anything I'd say he'd be healthier feeling them as you do. I'm also true to my type description in that I want to explain everything, but don't feel like I should change anything. I wasn't really suggesting that you or he try to change to fit the other--I just thought it might ease your frustration to hear that it's not so much his personal problem, but an INTP thing in general to feel emotions this way.

 

[Shaz]

I don't think I could date a J. Even an NFJ...

I don't understand. Why?

Because I need someone who is relaxed, who takes things as they come, I don't know, I really need a P to balance out my J. Js stress me like crazy. I feel judged very easily in general, maybe it's part of that too. Besides if I don't agree with someone on something and they're as stubborn (and don't want to be wrong) as I am, we are likely to have many arguments, I think.

This said this is partly hypothetical. I've only dated one J and it didn't work out, as I said. I'm always attracted to Ps. Strong Ps. There is the exception of my ENFJ best friend I used to be crazy about (because it was the first time I had met someone like me, and we agreed on everything, we have an extremely similar outlook on life and experience it in very similar ways), but with time, knowing him much better now, I don't know if it could work in the long run. He is often too categorical about things. Js tend to be more categorical don't they? I don't like that.

Part of it is just visceral, you know...

He's an INTP. Very healthy one.

Out of curiosity what do you mean when you say healthy INTP? What makes them healthy?

To be honest with you, I'm not sure what I meant :mrgreen: since I haven't met any other INTPs. Actually a friend of his is an INTP and I don't really like him that much. I find that guy has too much blind faith in science. I believe there is something bigger than science, or at least complementary, though I can't tell what, or whether I'm right. I'm just a limited human being, just like that guy is. But this is beside the point, sorry. (what I do love though is when they are both drunk and argue for hours about things I couldn't fathom myself as brilliantly as they do, about time and the universe and uber abstract stuff, it just fascinates me completely. ). That guy also had no tact with an INFP girl he had had sex with, and who was I think in love with him.

My boyfriend is more open minded than that him, to begin with. I'm his first girlfriend (he's 19) so I don't know how he would be with someone else, because we have quite a big influence on each other I think. We make each other grow. But still.

He can't really put words on his feelings easily (but he's so cute when he tries), but I read him so it's OK. What he is great at though is listening to me, my frequent display of (sometimes extreme) emotions don't bother him because he doesn't get affected by them (unless he is involved in the problem, in which case we talk and things get better). I think he feels useful when he can comfort me.

He is self confident but still very tolerant. He is not full of himself. He has ideas and is able to follow the good ones through and go from idea into realization. He loves his concepts but doesn't think he is more right than someone else (well, sometimes maybe :mrgreen: ). He is always sure that everything's gonna work out, but if it doesn't he doesn't care, what's important is that he tried.

Then again, I don't have much INTP experience, and I probably wrote he was healthy because I was writing with my F :mrgreen: .

 

[alcyone]

http://www.personalityzone.com/user/DrL ... alist.html

For couples with an Idealist partner....

Actually there look like a number of interesting articles on this site that are applicable to this thread.

http://www.personalityzone.com/group/love-zone/

 

[Shai Gar]

That guy also had no tact with an INFP girl he had had sex with, and who was I think in love with him.

Well yes, he's an INTP, he probably didn't even realise she was in love with him. Don't expect things to clear up on their own, force him to see links and react to them.

 

[frozen_water]

To be honest with you, I'm not sure what I meant :mrgreen:
[...]
Then again, I don't have much INTP experience, and I probably wrote he was healthy because I was writing with my F :mrgreen:

That's actually exactly why I asked you... I'd also like to point out that although you don't think you knew what you meant, you just gave a bunch of good examples of it . INTPs have both the best and the worst self-awareness I think I've ever seen in anyone. The best because we'll obsess over our motives and (if the individual person in question has integrity) will trace our actions to our motives and beat one or the other into submission until everything becomes consistent. The worst because if one end is off, say if all our experiences with people have ended in betrayal or poorly, everything in us will shift in line with the perception of reality and not too many would bat an eye to think "maybe this isn't how all people are." On that note, I'm glad to hear the description you gave of a healthy one (that goes for myself as much as for him/you). Sometime if you're bored and have the motivation, go read stuff from intpforum.com... not often healthy (I don't think). I'm quickly falling under the opinion that INFJs would be better suited to judge our internal health than we ourselves are.

Well yes, he's an INTP, he probably didn't even realise she was in love with him. Don't expect things to clear up on their own, force him to see links and react to them.

lol take Shai's advice seriously from now on, if you haven't decided to already . In my first few weeks at college I got asked out to (and went on) on a few dates with one girl, and another tried to flirt with me by giving me massages. I didn't notice either, until I was told that this was going on by other people...... not that I would have handled anything differently if I had known.

What he is great at though is listening to me, my frequent display of (sometimes extreme) emotions don't bother him because he doesn't get affected by them.

hehe... this made me laugh, because my friends joke that I'm a computer, and discuss (behind my back...) whether I've ever gotten "the blue screen error" internally. Glad to hear it's helpful to someone...

He can't really put words on his feelings easily (but he's so cute when he tries)

I feel like I half owe you something for such a good reply, so I'll try to repay it by breaking potential future tension. The fact that he tries to put his feelings into words for you at all means he feels extremely close to you, no matter how healthy he is. If, God forbid, someday you find yourself doubting his interest in you (as is extremely likely to happen, because you're a girl and it's not going to come naturally to him to remind you), remember that :mrgreen: .

 

[Shai Gar]

Well yes, he's an INTP, he probably didn't even realise she was in love with him. Don't expect things to clear up on their own, force him to see links and react to them.

lol take Shai's advice seriously from now on, if you haven't decided to already . In my first few weeks at college I got asked out to (and went on) on a few dates with one girl, and another tried to flirt with me by giving me massages. I didn't notice either, until I was told that this was going on by other people...... not that I would have handled anything differently if I had known.

Girl at work flirts constantly with me, didn't know that all her bringing me drinks, and making me special drinks and asking me if i wanted to come clubbing (urrgh ) with her were signs of infatuation/sexual intention, until her/my ENFP friend told me about them... now I'm just trying to avoid the topic since i'm interested more in an INTJ, and any relationship with her would have a serious time limit on it. heh, us ENTPs can be just as oblivious and as much with the self doubting as you guys.

hehe... this made me laugh, because my friends joke that I'm a computer, and discuss (behind my back...) whether I've ever gotten "the blue screen error" internally. Glad to hear it's helpful to someone...

Heee, everyone knows that INTPs run on OpenBSD (unix), so they CAN'T get Blue Screen of Death