Feminism

[the]

Bear with me, I'm on an iPad here...

what is it that makes a person a true feminist?

I've been exploring feminism and the men's right movement as I move away from mbti as my latest obsession; it seems like there is a lot of ambiguity surround what it really means to be a feminist. Things like this http://www.reddit.com/comments/144smz I feel like I am just missing the whole point of it, or maybe she is idk. Because I was born out of a woman I need feminism? Why?

In some ways feminism seems more like a religion than anything else.

 

[Apone]

Most people think that a feminist is someone who wants equal rights for women.

For the most part feminists are also atheist, mostly because religions have a history of being extremely anti-woman… of all the major religions, only Buddhism approaches egalitarianism, and to be honest I think that a lot of the oppressive norms originated in religion. They also tend towards socialism, because capitalism tends to favors men and 'their' institutions.

I think there's a general understanding that feminism gets grouped in with things like minority rights and so forth...

 

[the]

I feel like feminists like to 'advertise' feminism in this way: you have the evil male patriarchy on one hand and matriarchy on the other (which their "enemies" the males and the establishment would never agree to), and somehow feminism is the middle ground. But that doesnt seem right either.

 

[Cornerstone]

Unity is the middle ground.

Feminism is a necessary evil. Well, it is totally unnecessary but in our situation...necessary.

We devalued feminine qualities because a quick smack could make them go away but we have only hurt ourselves by doing this. Physical violence is the most stupid solution to a problem because it never, ever actually solves the problem - it just gets rid of its advocates. The problem will keep emerging and re-emerging in different forms represented by different people.

So we need women to be women. To do what they do best, whatever that is. I think we intuitively know the differences between men and women even if to say it aloud would be 'generalising'. No two zebras are exactly the same so there is no such thing as a zebra...empathy, compassion, reluctance to resort to violence. Women have a huge role to play in allowing humanity to realise our potential and this patriarchy is killing that by making women into men.

Strength is and always will be in unity because we cannot help but be united. We can deny it and we can avoid it but we cannot help it.

Really though, transparency is the quickest way to unity and this mating game bullshit leaves half the population seeing the other half as the enemy from whom ones real motivatons must be hidden at all times.

 

[Solongo]

Most people think that a feminist is someone who wants equal rights for women.

For the most part feminists are also atheist, mostly because religions have a history of being extremely anti-woman… of all the major religions, only Buddhism approaches egalitarianism, and to be honest I think that a lot of the oppressive norms originated in religion. They also tend towards socialism, because capitalism tends to favors men and 'their' institutions.

I think there's a general understanding that feminism gets grouped in with things like minority rights and so forth...

This is true. The rise of patriarchal society post Christ era seems to have created a huge fear and mistrust of feminine energy and power. This still continues today. The divide between what is masculine and what is feminine is huge nowadays. Why did the post Christ bros feel so threatened?? The ancient civilizations like the Egyptians and Romans somehow knew and understood the necessity of feminine energy and even appointed female Pharoahs. I highly doubt Christ saw women and femininity as something that needed to be suppressed and to be feared. Does it really all come down to some dude getting his heart broken and decided to wage a war on femininity and women in general?

 

[Air]

I don't like feminism. Or rather the way it tends to be used. Because it seems to encourage the pussification of men, and I'm strongly attracted to strong manly men that act like men and not pussy whipped little boys. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[MrDoobie]

like the Egyptians and Romans somehow knew and understood the necessity of feminine energy

Not necessarily. I don't know about Ancient Egypt, but Roman culture was incredibly phallocentric and patriarchal.

Feminism is, basically, equal rights for women, whatever that means to you.

No two zebras are exactly the same so there is no such thing as a zebra...empathy, compassion, reluctance to resort to violence. Women have a huge role to play in allowing humanity to realise our potential and this patriarchy is killing that by making women into men.

So are you suggesting there is stuff that is distinctly feminine and stuff that is distinctly masculine? Why do we have to rely on women for "empathy, compassion, reluctance to resort to violence"? Aren't those traits equally as desirable in men as bravery, self-sufficiency, and strength are in women?

 

[Azazel]

I consider myself a feminist but I don't like to label myself (as anything). What it means to me: equal rights and respect towards men and women. I support both because I don't understand the bashing, the sexism towards women/men. It is just demeaning to me... I want the true unity even if it's utopia atm. I also don't like the whole what's a real man/woman thing. There are many things that bother me. I also dislike the men-bashing attitude. Idk what they call themselves, I don't want to be associated with those. I don't want a man vs. woman battle. The two should work together, imo, and there's a lot to work on for both parties.

 

[MrDoobie]

See, I don't think those "man-hating" feminists really exist. I've never really read feminist rhetoric or met a feminist that made me think "huh, this person really hates men". And I follow feminism really closely. I mean, I guess you could always mention Valerie Solanas, but she was crazy and tried to shoot Andy Warhol and the SCUM Manifesto may or may not have been satire. I find it strange that people who are feminist often feel compelled to add disclaimers that they don't "hate men" or aren't "against men". I mean, I'm a queer activist, and I never feel like I should remind people that I hate straights (even though I totally do, ).

I don't think the problem is so much "man hating feminazis" as it is that the image of the man-hating feminazi but rather a strawman image of the man hating feminazi has become an integral part of our pop cultural lexicon.

[video=youtube;tnJxqRLg9x0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnJxqRLg9x0[/video]

 

[Sai]

feminism suxs

 

[Azazel]

[MENTION=6082]MrDoobie[/MENTION] , I've met those in real life and some online too. That's why I have the urge to point out that I'm not from the obnoxious camp but more often than not I just follow my ideas silently unless I feel there's a need to speak out and talk about those ideas. The same goes with politics and spirituality for me.

 

[Kgal]

I was taught Feminist Theory in social work.

Their main perspective is equality for all. A true feminist is seeking for equality between the adults - male and female - for children - and for oppressed societies/cultures. It emphasizes the nurturing quality of the feminine.

Those "man bashing" and/or "bra burning" women who claim they are Feminists....are wrong.

 

[Lemonworld]

I am not a feminist per se, but I agree with most of what Virginia Woolf wrote on the subject. Especially A Room of One's Own. And this:

"Women have served all these centuries as looking glasses possessing the magic and delicious power of reflecting the figure of man at twice its natural size."

...Maybe I am a feminist after all.

 

[the]

See, I don't think those "man-hating" feminists really exist. I've never really read feminist rhetoric or met a feminist that made me think "huh, this person really hates men". And I follow feminism really closely. I mean, I guess you could always mention Valerie Solanas, but she was crazy and tried to shoot Andy Warhol and the SCUM Manifesto may or may not have been satire. I find it strange that people who are feminist often feel compelled to add disclaimers that they don't "hate men" or aren't "against men". I mean, I'm a queer activist, and I never feel like I should remind people that I hate straights (even though I totally do, ).

I don't think the problem is so much "man hating feminazis" as it is that the image of the man-hating feminazi but rather a strawman image of the man hating feminazi has become an integral part of our pop cultural lexicon.

[video=youtube;tnJxqRLg9x0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnJxqRLg9x0[/video]

RE: the video,

I didnt know we were already "post-feminism". Something new to look into for me.

 

[Cornerstone]

So are you suggesting there is stuff that is distinctly feminine and stuff that is distinctly masculine? Why do we have to rely on women for "empathy, compassion, reluctance to resort to violence"? Aren't those traits equally as desirable in men as bravery, self-sufficiency, and strength are in women?

There are natural instincts, yeah.

Women are more in touch with their feelings, generally...there are a lot of distractions these days. But it's important to be because you will eventually become a compassionate person if you really look inside long enough. So if you are in touch with your feelings on a regular basis just by your nature you don't deny them the way men do, you're bound to be more compassionate, empathetic and the other thing I said in general.

I had to soul search and agonise and look at the stars and eventually came to the conclusion that I should be nicer to people because they have, like, feelings and stuff. But to really pay attention to it and not take people for granted. I also smoked a fair bit of herb and introspected when I went on this soul searching mission - that is an important detail. I'm sure meditation works as well but...with the right intentions...

I think if the genders are a duality then everyone lies somewhere on the spectrum but I don't really know. All I know is that there is a side to society in the way it manifests its will in grandiose ways that is clearly a very male, aggressive and destructive temperment. They are really screwing things up big time. I think you can see what I mean even if it is difficult to put into words exactly.

 

[Cornerstone]

I have quite hairy armpits as well.

 

[youhemmein]

I find the "I need feminism because..." thing to be not only patronizing, but extremely offensive. For one, a lot of the reasons people are listing for "needing" feminism are absolute garbage. Feminism itself seems obsolete in the first world anyway. Anyone talking about it on the internet probably doesn't need it. There are places where women are still actually oppressed, but where we stand, no one is actually oppressed. Most of the people who consider themselves to be such are just nitpicky and self-entitled. Statistically, maybe wages are a little lower in some places for a female employee. I call that sexism, not oppression. There are also other factors to consider there, too, like productivity and reliability, for instance.

The feminist movement used to be necessary. It used to stand for securing the same basic rights as men, but no longer. We have those rights now. In the States, a woman can lead the country if she gets enough support. But there are quite simply things that men can do better than women, and vice versa. It would be foolish to ignore our basic biological propensities just because we get our feelings hurt by someone telling us we can't do something. Maybe we can, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should.

The thing that really chaps my ass is the idea that the way to escape this imagined oppression is to oppress the enemy; men in this case. Men are often treated badly (especially in the judicial system) just for being men. How is this not a double-standard? This appears not to be a struggle for equality, but rather for preferential treatment. You can't have it both ways. If a person wants to get behind an equality movement, they are going to have to be honest about when things go past fairness and the scales are tipping the other way. Unfortunately that's not the kind of objective thinking that people do when impassioned toward a cause. The "righteous" indignation and de-compartmentalized rage don't allow room for serious self-evaluation.

 

[Faye]

I agree with youhemmein that a lot of people aren't taking it seriously. Feminism is still needed I think. This is the best I've seen:

They really need this in some other countries.

 

[youhemmein]

I agree with youhemmein that a lot of people aren't taking it seriously. Feminism is still needed I think. This is the best I've seen:

They really need this in some other countries.

This one actually really pissed me off. Having been a victim of this awful crime, I *still* can't help but roll my eyes at this woman. Isn't "don't rape" kind of the law? Is anyone actively going out and teaching people *to* rape? Nothing wrong with knowing how to protect oneself from an unseen attacker. It's smart to educate women (or anyone!) on how to defend themselves. This to me is just like saying I shouldn't have to wear my seatbelt because other people should just stop being shitty drivers. Are there really people who don't know that rape is bad? Yes, there are people who do it anyway, but not because they don't know better-it's because they don't care, and no course on not raping people is going to sway them.

I can see the need for a "don't rape" course in obscure places, where rape is the norm. But it's not socially acceptable in the first world, and it's a no-brainer that if you do it and get caught, you'll basically get eye-for-eye treatment in prison.

 

[Matt3737]

I agree with [MENTION=1857]youhemmein[/MENTION]. The very use of the word 'rape' is by definition illegal. Should we also have an introductory course to explain why we shouldn't murder? The fact is that it doesn't stop someone from doing illegal activities.

Her perceived slight makes her appear ignorant and dismissive of her own responsibilities.