[MENTION=5090]Apone[/MENTION]
I don't support men or women being drafted. But that is another topic...
I don't support men or women being drafted. But that is another topic...
Feminism and it's impact on today's society
- Thread starter IrenaShav
- Start date
Some feminists will argue that they dont support a draft at all. Which in some cases would be unrealistic and they will allow men to default to being the war draftees.
I grew up around a lot of powerful feminists and they come in all different flavors. Some have been featured in national business magazines and articles for their contributions to various fields. They have achieved tremendous wealth and recognition for their accomplishments and become powerful executives but for the most part I have very little respect for a lot of them. I don’t want to write a huge explanation of all them but very simply put they are very insecure.
The simple explanation of the reason why is because they blamed every one of their issues on men. Not all of them and those that didn’t I admire and look up to. They were some of the best mentors and had some of the greatest advice in regards to business and personal matters. Those that had a healthy respect for all individuals no matter their gender taught me how to be a gentleman and have career success without being a cut throat asshole. Those that blamed men for their problems wanted me to be subservient to women and not trust anybody.
That is part of the problem with modern day feminism. First of all they are very defensive and cannot be reasoned with and then on top of that it is not about equality. It is about reversing the role and having women on top while men are on the bottom. No pun intended. It is not about being on the same level and having the same opportunity, they want men to feel their pain. That is not attractive in the least bit. Its insecure, childish and sadly the face of feminism within the working world.
So feminism, real feminism is not unattractive at all. The modern day flavor is because it is just sexist. A woman who wants to be able to be a corporate leader or an astronaut or go into politics is not unattractive. She is if she looks at men in that industry as her enemy and blames them for her not achieving her dreams.
The women I look up to in business and personally didn’t have to adapt “masculine” traits to have success and move up. They still stayed feminine and managed to make the different styles that men and women approach things with as a way to succeed and not something to shun. They used their different perspective in a male dominated environment to bring forth fresh and new ideas that the men didn’t see. They don’t look down upon stay at home moms or doing the household chores as a lesser job. It is all equal. Some are better suited for certain things depending on their personality and if that is what they had wanted they would have choose it
The simple explanation of the reason why is because they blamed every one of their issues on men. Not all of them and those that didn’t I admire and look up to. They were some of the best mentors and had some of the greatest advice in regards to business and personal matters. Those that had a healthy respect for all individuals no matter their gender taught me how to be a gentleman and have career success without being a cut throat asshole. Those that blamed men for their problems wanted me to be subservient to women and not trust anybody.
That is part of the problem with modern day feminism. First of all they are very defensive and cannot be reasoned with and then on top of that it is not about equality. It is about reversing the role and having women on top while men are on the bottom. No pun intended. It is not about being on the same level and having the same opportunity, they want men to feel their pain. That is not attractive in the least bit. Its insecure, childish and sadly the face of feminism within the working world.
So feminism, real feminism is not unattractive at all. The modern day flavor is because it is just sexist. A woman who wants to be able to be a corporate leader or an astronaut or go into politics is not unattractive. She is if she looks at men in that industry as her enemy and blames them for her not achieving her dreams.
The women I look up to in business and personally didn’t have to adapt “masculine” traits to have success and move up. They still stayed feminine and managed to make the different styles that men and women approach things with as a way to succeed and not something to shun. They used their different perspective in a male dominated environment to bring forth fresh and new ideas that the men didn’t see. They don’t look down upon stay at home moms or doing the household chores as a lesser job. It is all equal. Some are better suited for certain things depending on their personality and if that is what they had wanted they would have choose it
Here's another option....both men and women could both question if the war is justifiable at all in the first place before blindly going to war
If they deem it isn't once they have looked at the facts objectively, then both men and women could resist government efforts to coerce them into fighting people in some far away place who have never done them any harm
@Apone Look, it's obvious that you are being trollish and looking for an argument---because I have agreed with you that in theory, if women want to be able to join the military they should also be subject to a draft. Theres nothing equal about a double standard. I understand you have some cognitive dissonance going on because a feminist is agreeing with you on that point, so I will give you some time to get your head together.
For the record, I don't think military service is a privilege for men, either. Poor and disadvantaged are usually the ones who sign up, or those who may feel they don't have any other career options. And most of those signing up probably don't anticipate coming back with disabilities and ptsd. Veterans aren't venerated and cared for nearly as much anybody wants to pretend either, so lets get this straight--serving in the military isn't a privilege for anyone. The rich and powerful families are not the ones who serve as soldiers. The more important point in this, is that the draft sucks regardless of gender.
For the record, I don't think military service is a privilege for men, either. Poor and disadvantaged are usually the ones who sign up, or those who may feel they don't have any other career options. And most of those signing up probably don't anticipate coming back with disabilities and ptsd. Veterans aren't venerated and cared for nearly as much anybody wants to pretend either, so lets get this straight--serving in the military isn't a privilege for anyone. The rich and powerful families are not the ones who serve as soldiers. The more important point in this, is that the draft sucks regardless of gender.
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In exchange for their service soldiers are traditionally greeted with the utmost respect when they return to the society they protected. This in someways makes it a privilege. It stops becoming a privilege when the war isn't in self defense and the citizens don't stand behind it. This is our current situation and it's the reason most of our troops aren't admired the way they used to be.
So I disagree, I think fighting in war is a privilege under some circumstances. It just isn't in America at the moment.
They come home unemployed and at a disadvantage to find work because a lot of companies are too afraid to hire them. They come home to understaffed and underfunded VA hospitals and mental health treatment centers. These are the ones I work with in my job. I'm not saying that their service isn't appreciated, but their sacrifices are by no means a privilege, when there are other ways to earn respect without sacrificing your safety and in a lot of cases, mental health.
If serving is such a privilege, why should there ever be need for a draft?
It is not a privilege-- it's nationalist rhetoric and propaganda that pushes that logic.
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[MENTION=5375]chulo[/MENTION]
It's different than being conscripted to go kill, or to sign up for service without a true understanding of things.
It's different than being conscripted to go kill, or to sign up for service without a true understanding of things.
True. It's a big difference. All I'm saying is that under certain circumstances it is a privilege to fight in war. Apart from the draft and Americas current wars overseas.
*And I agree with you 100% about the draft. It's just a way to get people to fight for things they don't understand or believe in. I hate the draft. But we must remember that not all societies have a draft.
What a novel idea that has never been done before.
It has been done but it needs to be done in bigger numbers
People are conditioned by the government and corporate media to think in certain ways; I'm saying that people shouldn't follow blindly, but should question authority and think for themselves
Of course it takes for people to have a certain perspective before they can do this. If they have only consumed corporate media they will probably believe that their country is carrying out god's will and is never wrong
People need to question authority and think for themselves; this means getting news from sources other than the corporate media and listening to a range of perspectives and then holding their leaders accountable
Then there is direct action such as peaceful non cooperation
People do think for themselves. Just because they are not coming to your conclusion, doesn't prove otherwise. Having a military where everyone wants to be 100% satisfied with explanations is inefficient and results in an ineffective military. Unless you mean something different than the way I am taking it, this is just a pie in the sky idealistic wish.
Granted I am not happy with the current state of affairs, I am not so blind as to subject every soldier to every news source until every soldier comes to the same conclusion as to what direction they must take. I was hoping for something specific and realistic not just the go-to "solution" of: think for yourself.