Feminism and it's impact on today's society

[acd]

Basically, @IrenaShav , it sounds like you have a super romanticized idea of men and women and how they should interact and behave towards one another, and
this thread is about your dissatisfaction that the fantasy is not reality. Sorry, life isn't Gone With The Wind. I won't try to debate your preference any longer.

 

[Zebraf301]

Interesting question. Recently I met a young man who has such natural, raw, strong male energy that women chase him like dogs. This energy was almost tangible. He was very different from most of today's men and unaffected by trends on some basic level. I, too, was fascinated with him and started to wonder why he's the only person with that kind of energy I ever met. I wondered if heterosexual men were like that before the sexual revolution.

Ahhh. The invigorating sexual contrast probably really is less prominent these days. I doubt that our era, in the future, will be regarded as a particularly romantic one. There's something visceral, and deeply tangible about the contrast you speak of. Maybe the need for that Brawny demonstration isn't as called upon, so not demonstrated as loudly, and vice versa for women. If you lived in a country of war, or had to behave more viscerally with physical threats like, silly example, wolves, I'm sure those classic male/female characteristics would come seeping out of the woodwork. I'm a nurse which is a profession that really can groom those classically feminine characteristics into a persona quite easily, as being a soldier (for example), could be for a man.

 

[IrenaShav]

Irena Irena... totally missing the point. I like it how you didn't comment on anything else. I get the feeling everyone has their point of view and their vision and we simply don't move anywhere right now. If you like 40s/5os fashion – fine, wear it! You want raw male energy then find a man with raw male energy. But that other sensitive guy who doesn't try too hard might find a woman too. People have different tastes when it comes to personalities and looks too.

Sorry, with this much (unexpected) response it's hard to comment on everything. With regards to the rest of your comment, I guess that everyone has their own preferences and their opinion about what's natural and what's not. Anyway, I find that sensitivity and expressing emotions doesn't have anything to do with masculinity or femininity and real emotionally healthy men shouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[hk427f3]

What the hell does 'natural' mean?

 

[IrenaShav]

What the hell does 'natural' mean?

I guess that everyone has their own idea of what it means. To me it means "unaffected".

 

[Azazel]

I find that sensitivity and expressing emotions doesn't have anything to do with masculinity or femininity and real emotionally healthy men shouldn't have a problem with it.

Well, we agree on something, it's nice. Do you mean you want more of those "raw male energy" men? Not sure what you mean by that. Charisma?

 

[IrenaShav]

Basically, @IrenaShav , it sounds like you have a super romanticized idea of men and women and how they should interact and behave towards one another, and
this thread is about your dissatisfaction that the fantasy is not reality. Sorry, life isn't Gone With The Wind. I won't try to debate your preference any longer.

And once again you do not bother to properly read or grasp what I write, and yet you choose to comment on it in order to make ungrounded accusations. You are welcome to post what you want, but I shall have to ignore your posts from now on.

 

[ThisIsWhoIAm]

Equity feminism in theory is something beautiful indeed, but I believe practice always involves wider group of social factors and unpredictable consequences. What I have a problem with is gender feminism. Here is the exact by-product of feminism that is bothering me:

Men and women before
View attachment 17002

Men and women now
View attachment 17003View attachment 17004

I might be overreacting, but I think most of people reading this will get the general idea about what I mean.

Sorry but this is ridiculous. This might come out as racist to some of you - i believe [MENTION=3557]IrenaShav[/MENTION]'s views come from her nationality which is obviously russian... I know a lot of russians, and their women like their men strong and brutal, often they even like to be beaten (harshly) in bed and strangled... I don't like this mentality, i think it is much more sick than irena's doomsday predictions about men being like women...

 

[Gaze]

I think the OP is referring to behavior rather than rights or opportunities. There is a line of thinking which flies below the radar, which says, to be a strong and confident woman, a woman must adopt and display qualities stereotypically associated with masculinity. Many women still think in this way, "I am so cool or so much cooler than other women because I can hangout with the guys and talk dirty like the guys." The word strength is still seen as a masculine concept and is often misrepresented as a show of strength in outward display. "Quiet" strength, a more feminine concept, is not acknowledged as true strength. So, being "masculine" is still seen as a standard of behavior for both men and women to live up to. You're more likely to be seen as competent if you show more "masculine" qualities than stereotypically feminine qualities, the assumption being that you can't truly be successful or live up to your full potential if you don't approach the world with more "masculine" assets. Look at the metaphors we use to describe strength and toughness.

I think the point of the OP is not to deny, suppress, or demean traditionally feminine qualities by seeing them as weaknesses. Appreciate them, see their strengths, and love yourself for them rather than diminishing their value or worth.

 

[this is only temporary]

Sorry but this is ridiculous. This might come out as racist to some of you - i believe [MENTION=3557]IrenaShav[/MENTION]'s views come from her nationality which is obviously russian... I know a lot of russians, and their women like their men strong and brutal, often they even like to be beaten (harshly) in bed and strangled... I don't like this mentality, i think it is much more sick than irena's doomsday predictions about men being like women...

You know... I have to agree overall. No offense to Irena, but, that first JPG was from Gone With The Wind. The second is Zena, warrior princess.

Problems:
1. Rhett and Scarlett were fictional characters in a mutually abusive relationship in a book/movie that did a lousy job of portraying reality overall for a number of reasons.
2. Zena doesn't even pretend to portray reality. The only place you are ever going to see someone like Zena is at some cosplay event or something, and even those people understand that it is just make-believe. (Well, I think they do, anyway. Possibly. Sometimes.)

I don't think feminism is turning us all into Zena. Rhett never even existed in the first place, except in the imagination of a writer, who was noted for being rather rebellious and actually was quite a strong personality herself, not exactly a doormat. Scarlett (also fictional) was herself rather a feminist, and was not exactly saintly or subservient in her treatment of men. (That would be Melanie.) And Scarlett was a good businesswoman as well, who made more money than her husband at the time, and in fact, most of the men in Scarlet's life were rather useless. Margaret Mitchell, the author, was supposedly a "nymphomaniac", but back in her day that was a term applied to any woman who actually -- erm -- got busy on a regular basis.

So it's ironic to choose Scarlett and Rhett as models for anti-feminism and virility, don't you think? They're rather the opposite. Scarlett regularly ran roughshod over men, and Rhett slept around and became abusive and left her. Bit twisted if you ask me.

 

[IrenaShav]

I think the OP is referring to behavior rather than rights or opportunities. There is a line of thinking which flies below the radar, which says, to be a strong and confident woman, a woman must adopt and display qualities stereotypically associated with masculinity. Many women still think in this way, "I am so cool or so much cooler than other women because I can hangout with the guys and talk dirty like the guys." The word strength is still seen as a masculine concept and is often misrepresented as a show of strength in outward display. "Quiet" strength, a more feminine concept, is not acknowledged as true strength. So, being "masculine" is still seen as a standard of behavior for both men and women to live up to. You're more likely to be seen as competent if you show more "masculine" qualities than stereotypically feminine qualities, the assumption being that you can't truly be successful or live up to your full potential if you don't approach the world with more "masculine" assets. Look at the metaphors we use to describe strength and toughness.

I think the point of the OP is not to deny, suppress, or demean traditionally feminine qualities by seeing them as weaknesses. Appreciate them, see their strengths, and love yourself for them rather than diminishing their value or worth.

That's right, I believe that a woman can be strong without being mainly, and that's one of my main points here. I agree with what you said. I believe that modern society wants to inforce traditional "masculine" qualities and behavior in women and make them think those qualities are necessary for a woman to survive in today's world. I believe that most of women don't truly have the desire to display masculine behavior, they have rather been deceived into accepting it as necessary.

 

[IrenaShav]

You know... I have to agree overall. No offense to Irena, but, that first JPG was from Gone With The Wind. The second is Zena, warrior princess.

Problems:
1. Rhett and Scarlett were fictional characters in a mutually abusive relationship in a book/movie that did a lousy job of portraying reality overall for a number of reasons.
2. Zena doesn't even pretend to portray reality. The only place you are ever going to see someone like Zena is at some cosplay event or something, and even those people understand that it is just make-believe. (Well, I think they do, anyway. Possibly. Sometimes.)

I don't think feminism is turning us all into Zena. Rhett never even existed in the first place, except in the imagination of a writer, who was noted for being rather rebellious and actually was quite a strong personality herself, not exactly a doormat. Scarlett (also fictional) was herself rather a feminist, and was not exactly saintly or subservient in her treatment of men. (That would be Melanie.) And Scarlett was a good businesswoman as well, who made more money than her husband at the time, and in fact, most of the men in Scarlet's life were rather useless. Margaret Mitchell, the author, was supposedly a "nymphomaniac", but back in her day that was a term applied to any woman who actually -- erm -- got busy on a regular basis.

So it's ironic to choose Scarlett and Rhett as models for anti-feminism and virility, don't you think? They're rather the opposite. Scarlett regularly ran roughshod over men, and Rhett slept around and became abusive and left her. Bit twisted if you ask me.

I did not post the pictures to make the characters role-models for behavior, I only posted them to show how much some aspects of feminism have affected physical appearance of both of genders after feminism was created. I was a bit satirical about it, but I think that lot of people will understand what I was trying to say. I may have posted pictures of other people with similar looks, but I chose the ones that I did because they, generally looking, represent a typical example of how men and women generally used to look like before and how they look now. I really wasn't referring to the characters and the story of the movie and tv show in depth.

 

[IrenaShav]

Sorry but this is ridiculous. This might come out as racist to some of you - i believe @IrenaShav 's views come from her nationality which is obviously russian... I know a lot of russians, and their women like their men strong and brutal, often they even like to be beaten (harshly) in bed and strangled... I don't like this mentality, i think it is much more sick than irena's doomsday predictions about men being like women...

Yes, this does come out as random racism. And I am not Russian fyi. For me masculinity doesn't mean brutality, but rather naturally strong masculine energy, which means having a strong personality and appearing masculine without trying hard. For me a real man is not aggressive towards women, but he would never let a woman boss him around. If she tried to do it, he would ignore her or leave her.

 

[bamf]

For me a real man is not aggressive towards women, but he would never let a woman boss him around. If she tried to do it, he would ignore her or leave her.

Flip side of the coin: Would a real woman let a man boss her around, or would she ignore him/leave?

 

[Azazel]

I still think all this issue is not without being cultural. Where I was born almost all women wear heels at any time of the year, are quite often passive and take very traditional roles, many men are not behaving nicely and are sexist. Who doesn't fit the bill — usually suffers and often gets bullied. Do you want everyone to fit the bill? People are different, plain and simple. I bet you're a very feminine lady and can sure embrace it the way you like it but why everyone has to be the way you want them to?
I feel awesome in my jeans and t-shirt without feeling a pressure to doll up every day! it is a very very small thing that I enjoy but I do appreciate this possibility along with the ones like voting, working, etc.
Men have total rights here when it comes to their kids even if the man isn't married, as far as I know. This is a big deal that this law has passed recently. Expressing yourself freely is a great feeling too...

I like Xena btw haha very campy but fierce

 

[Azazel]

man that isn't bossed around:

 

[IrenaShav]

Flip side of the coin: Would a real woman let a man boss her around, or would she ignore him/leave?

This is up to men to decide, as a woman can't answer this question without being considerably subjective. It also depends on what exactly you mean by bossing around. If it's something like verbal and physical violence, every healthy woman should leave the relationship.

 

[bamf]

This is up to men to decide, as a woman can't answer this question without being considerably subjective.

Huh? How is it up to the man to decide whether or not a woman will let herself be bossed around?

You said that a real man won't be bossed around by a woman, or else they'll leave or ignore her. I'm asking you whether or not you think a real woman should let herself be bossed around, or should she too leave/ignore? You made a statement, and I'm asking you your opinion as to whether or not that same statement applies to "real" women. Also, wouldn't it be "considerably subjective" for a woman to decide the way that a real man acts?

 

[bamf]

man that isn't bossed around:

If I did that to my partner, she'd hit me in the face, and that's the way I like it.

 

[Azazel]

If I did that to my partner, she'd hit me in the face, and that's the way I like it.

ound: sandwich is a running gag here at home lol are we getting to the topic if only women should "cook" sandwiches?