Faith vs Logic | INFJ Forum

Faith vs Logic

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jimtaylor

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May 19, 2010
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I enjoy reading the technology and space sections of most news agencies. Something that always makes me laugh is the comments made about the discoveries of exoplanets some of which are so out there, I can't help but feel like my IQ is being dropped just for reading them. I am confounded by the notion that anybody would be upset about finding life on other planets, especially intelligent life. Whatever belief system you happen to fall into, it seems to me that such a discovery would only work to prove the brilliance of any notion. Whether you believe that an almighty being created everything or that all this was created by a single random event, I don't see how it matters.

If an almighty being both omnipotent and omniscient created everything, is it so outrageous to think that we can't even hope to be able to even conceive the purpose of such a being? Reading the comments it sounds like a lot of people have the similar mindset of a child who wishes he/she was an only child but was born into a large family. I don't see how being one of many makes one any less valuable than being the only one. I see that diversity as a further demonstration of the magnificence of an almighty being.

I don't indentify as a religious person and that being said, I don't see how such a finding disproves the existence of an almighty being. It might disprove some religious believes but those are institutions of humanity and therefore very prone to mistakes and misunderstandings. I just cannot grasp how anybody can claim with certainty anything and so blatantly ignore the evidence in front of them. I just don't understand how anybody could be so willingly ignorant.

You can believe in an almighty being and any of its number of religious figures without completely ignoring the values of logic and reason. I don't see a black and white distinction between faith and logic, I see shades of gray. True, accepting some of these things might go against your religion but religion is an institution of humanity and therefore flawed like humanity. We all make mistakes and just because most religions are founded with good intentions it doesn't free them of their mistakes or make them above them.
 
Why do some religious people make knee-jerk emotional reactions towards discoveries that aren't necessarily incompatible with the basic tenets of their religion?

Because their beliefs go beyond what their religion is 'actually about'. For example, a lot of Christians seem to think that 'family values' are somehow a part of their religion, when there isn't really any robust biblical support for it. Sure, you can cherrypick passages out of context, but you can do the same to refute these ideas. Largely, the religion is just one side of the belief system, it is given lip service and superficially evoked to justify all the other ideologies that are conflated with the religion.

jimtaylor said:
I just don't understand how anybody could be so willingly ignorant.
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How else do you deal with cognitive dissonance and still come away with the same set of beliefs about the universe? These people see their beliefs as absolute and beyond the reach of any doubt. Furthermore, they often care less about what it is true and real than whatever makes them feel good.
 
I think maybe part of faith is about dedicating yourself to discarding logic. That's what faith is. Believing in something you can't actually be sure about.

If you're told that what you're supposed to love and believe in the most in life is what is least visible and logical, it would make sense IMO that the more logical and concrete something is, the more you'd naturally be averse and suspicious towards it.
 
On radio lab I heard the hosts talking to a couple of physicists about what was before the big bang. They were talking about there being no matter only energy, and that energy could be though to as light. (e=m[SUP]c2[/SUP]). As the light got too energetic it started spiting out asymmetrical pairs of particles of matter and anti-matter.

It looks like what separates religious interpretations from scientific ones is logic. Not that one is logical and one isn't, but that the base assumptions lead to differing interpretations.
 
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I don't see why people would have a problem with that.

Why would a god make a huge universe just for some billions of humans (a relatively tiny number)?

Just the galaxy we live in is so massive that we can't leave it. Even if we could travel at the speed of light it would take over 10,000 years just to get near the edge of it from where we are. It would take another 16,000 years just to get to the next closest galaxy.

[video=youtube;HEheh1BH34Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q[/video]
 
sprinkles said:
I don't see why people would have a problem with that.

Why would a god make a huge universe just for some billions of humans (a relatively tiny number)?

Just the galaxy we live in is so massive that we can't leave it. Even if we could travel at the speed of light it would take over 10,000 years just to get near the edge of it from where we are. It would take another 16,000 years just to get to the next closest galaxy.

[video=youtube;HEheh1BH34Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q[/video]
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That video was so cool!
 
niffer said:
I think maybe part of faith is about dedicating yourself to discarding logic. That's what faith is. Believing in something you can't actually be sure about.

If you're told that what you're supposed to love and believe in the most in life is what is least visible and logical, it would make sense IMO that the more logical and concrete something is, the more you'd naturally be averse and suspicious towards it.
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I hate to agree but I have to. I don't understand why though? They can explain all these negative things as the work of god, why not something good like life on other planets? I know I shouldn’t be surprised and I probably expect too much from humanity but I can’t help be confused by the deep seated negativity that we as species harbor for anything outside our present realm of understanding. This is not only an attribute of the faithful but also something that can be witnessed in even the most intellectual fields. Anything that challenges or upsets the status quo is often times met with instant hostility and isn’t recognized as genius until many years later when people finally are able to accept it. I just find it funny that people are so afraid of being wrong.
 
Mmmh, self importance triumphs understanding.

You know how the more invested you are, the less clarity you have?
 
faith sees beyond what is visible

logic is useful but all by itself is limited

if it was heart vs brain i'd choose heart

really the two get along quite well together
they aren't meant to be separate

faith sees, faith is vision
logic is sheer processing power

they compliment each other

but faith is more valuable
 
myself said:
faith [strike]sees[/strike] makes shit up beyond what is visible
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Well if we're just throwing out our views left and right without explanation regardless of anyone caring or not or it being directly relevant to the conversation

jimtaylor said:
I hate to agree but I have to. I don't understand why though? They can explain all these negative things as the work of god, why not something good like life on other planets? I know I shouldn’t be surprised and I probably expect too much from humanity but I can’t help be confused by the deep seated negativity that we as species harbor for anything outside our present realm of understanding. This is not only an attribute of the faithful but also something that can be witnessed in even the most intellectual fields. Anything that challenges or upsets the status quo is often times met with instant hostility and isn’t recognized as genius until many years later when people finally are able to accept it. I just find it funny that people are so afraid of being wrong.
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People like to stick to what they know and were taught their entire lives. It doesn't even matter if it supports their theory or not sometimes. If it's not what they're used to, it's not right. Because if it's right, then the world they know will be shattered, and they won't be able to be comfortable anymore or rebuild a sense of certainty in life.

Not everything we do makes sense, and that doesn't matter in the slightest to a lot of people out there.
 
[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION]

When my world was shattered like that, after a while I just said "Good! That was too stuffy and restricting for me anyway!"
 
niffer said:
I'd wager you didn't love and believe in this worldview with all your heart in the first place.
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No but I was taught to act and think that I did because it was "THE CORRECT AND ONLY WAY"

Supposedly.

Edit: also I gained no appreciation for it because it was a dogmatic limbo. It was head knowledge which was neither logical nor spiritual - it was merely "Just so, just because."
 
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Faith is a pathetic joke. A practice of gullibility, self delusion.
 
jimtaylor said:
I hate to agree but I have to. I don't understand why though? They can explain all these negative things as the work of god, why not something good like life on other planets? I know I shouldn’t be surprised and I probably expect too much from humanity but I can’t help be confused by the deep seated negativity that we as species harbor for anything outside our present realm of understanding. This is not only an attribute of the faithful but also something that can be witnessed in even the most intellectual fields. Anything that challenges or upsets the status quo is often times met with instant hostility and isn’t recognized as genius until many years later when people finally are able to accept it. I just find it funny that people are so afraid of being wrong.
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Because it was a belief system invented by illiterate desert peasants, that's why they hate science and facts and logic. Religion is meant to enslave.
 
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myself said:
faith sees beyond what is visible

logic is useful but all by itself is limited

if it was heart vs brain i'd choose heart

really the two get along quite well together
they aren't meant to be separate

faith sees, faith is vision
logic is sheer processing power

they compliment each other

but faith is more valuable
Click to expand...

Complete nonsense. Faith is a blight on human kind. Its not vision anymore than cutting your eyes out constitutes a form of vision.
 
sprinkles said:
@niffer

When my world was shattered like that, after a while I just said "Good! That was too stuffy and restricting for me anyway!"
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Not everyone is brave enough or intelligent enough to throw off the blinders they were raised with. Consider yourself superior. You are.
 
Faith, Hope and Love are intertwined

Logic is simply mechanics

The operating system is awesome but the designer deserves the glory.
 
Billy said:
Complete nonsense. Faith is a blight on human kind. Its not vision anymore than cutting your eyes out constitutes a form of vision.
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I think you're talking about religion.

Faith, in the most general sense (as in trust or belief without evidence), is the figurative equivalent of flipping a coin and saying "Fuck it, I'll do it."
Logic and faith are not opposites in this sense.
I'd say a more appropriate antonym for faith would be skepticism.

That said, I've been a logically faithful person. At times it is imprudent to be too skeptical of things, and it makes more sense to just have a bit of unfounded conviction that someone or something is worth getting behind.
 
SealHammer said:
That said, I've been a logically faithful person. At times it is imprudent to be too skeptical of things, and it makes more sense to just have a bit of unfounded conviction that someone or something is worth getting behind.
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Yeah I totally disagree. But we can still cuddle :)
 
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