Extraverted Feeling

[Paladin-X]

To go along with the first post about Introverted Intuition, let's move on to...

Extraverted Feeling (henceforth known as Fe). Try to think from personal experience. What does Fe mean to you? How do you think it differs from Introverted Feeling (Fi)? Introverted Thinking (Ti)? Extraverted Thinking (Te)? Can you provide an example from your past where you used Fe? How do you use it in your day to day life? For example, think of how you use Fe to solve problems or prioritize your day.

 

[Jana]

I might be wrong, for me Fe is to make decision acording to others. Good side and bad side of that. For example, I am verycareful in trying not to hurt somebody I communicate with. I feel bad if i make someone feel bad.
It is ok untill it become too much "strict", sometimes I fight very hard to turn off listening what others might think. I think that Fe users more often asks opinions and validation from others than Fi users. The problem is. when it is too much of that, you realised that you are not defined from inside - well, it makes one weak and somewhat unstable.
I think that Fe is great functions, it can connect people, but as everything else it can go wild and crazy - than one lost herself/hisself in trying to please others. People pleasers often don't know what they feel. Been there

 

[Paladin-X]

I might be wrong, for me Fe is to make decision acording to others. Good side and bad side of that. For example, I am verycareful in trying not to hurt somebody I communicate with. I feel bad if i make someone feel bad.
It is ok untill it become too much "strict", sometimes I fight very hard to turn off listening what others might think. I think that Fe users more often asks opinions and validation from others than Fi users. The problem is. when it is too much of that, you realised that you are not defined from inside - well, it makes one weak and somewhat unstable.
I think that Fe is great functions, it can connect people, but as everything else it can go wild and crazy - than one lost herself/hisself in trying to please others. People pleasers often don't know what they feel. Been there

You have some excellent points. At first I was opposed to your point about validation, but then I realized that you meant it as being more outward in seeking opinions. I would agree to that, but to a degree. An Fi person might also do the same because they want to help or please another, but I think it is more out of deliberate conscious decision. When Fe does it, it is more inherent. We don't think about it so much as just do it.

I would disagree with weakness however. I know it might come off as weak, and certainly we may often feel that way, but I think there is great, but subtle strength, in it. The best way I can think of to explain my meaning is from the movie, Take the Lead, with Antonio Banderas. There is a scene where his character, Pierre, is trying to teach two kids, who despise each other, how to dance. When they began to dance the first time, the girl pushed at the young man, trying to make him dance the proper way. Pierre then told the girl to follow the boy's lead. The girl became very upset because she believed it gave the boy the permission to “push her around.” Pierre’s comeback was, “The man proposes the step. It is up to the woman to choose to accept the step and then to follow.” (Fe is represented by 'woman' in this phrase.) Essentially, though we may be 'followers', it is we who choose who or what to follow. Does that make sense?

In looking up definitions for differentiating Moral, Value, Principle, Ethics, etc I came across a fantastic description of Value, which is very apt in describing how Jung meant for the context of 'Feeling' as a function:

Consider the word “evaluate”. When we evaluate something we compare it to a standard. We determine whether it meets that standard or falls short, comes close or far exceeds. To evaluate is to determine the merit of a thing or an action as compared to a standard.

For Fi, the standard is set from within, and for Fe, the standard is set from without. Again, take into consideration my movie reference. Though we may not set the standards ourselves, we choose whose standards from which to compare from. We might feel weak when we realize that we have chosen poorly, but because their system of value had become ours, it is tough to fall back to our own internal quiet conscious of principle or to adopt the values of another or others. Essentially, we learned from their baseline/value set. It is the unlearning and learning another set that is difficult. Does that make sense?

Addendum: Also, it is not that Fi comes up with values all on their own. They may see a value they like (or don't like) that is not already in their repertoire and adopt it into their judging system. However, they will set the standard or baseline. Conversely, Fe may come up with values all on their own, but use an external source as a baseline. Also, for Fe, different values may or may not baseline off of the same person, group or thing.

NOTE: I think I tend to set some people's nerve on edge when I use my opinions as fact. To me they are. But they are fluid. I am not so rigid, but they can be. I call this being tertiary Ti.

 

[Jana]

“The man proposes the step. It is up to the woman to choose to accept the step and then to follow.” (Fe is represented by 'woman' in this phrase.) Essentially, though we may be 'followers', it is we who choose who or what to follow. Does that make sense?

Never thought of this in that way, but when you explain it, I would consider it Free will Take it or leave it! Maybe in conflicts other functions helps Fe to not be lost in others. Tension between Ni and Fe can cause me some complicated moments.
Btw. I liked movie

 

[Soulful]

I was thinking about this function the other day.
Do you find there to be a difference between the ways in which feelers express Fe and thinkers do?
I know that is a very broad generalization, but I've noticed certain thinkers can go through the motions of expressing Fe -- saying all the right things, etc. yet there is a particular warmth and effusive sense of caring or an expression of sensitivity that is noticeably lacking. I realize the same can be said for feelers who aren't particularly expressive with their Fe.
Anyway, just thinking about it.

 

[Paladin-X]

Never thought of this in that way, but when you explain it, I would consider it Free will Take it or leave it! Maybe in conflicts other functions helps Fe to not be lost in others. Tension between Ni and Fe can cause me some complicated moments.
Btw. I liked movie

Haha yes, I like that! Free will.



So with this new overall understanding, for me, I can now see how confusing Fi and Fe are, because both choose values, tend to put others before themselves, etc. And I think this might be the trap, for me anyway, that people become embodiments, not just of ideals, but values as well. Which is perhaps where the disillusionment becomes very harsh and confusing. Certain people in my life become the baselines of my values. As I get to know a person, they may exhibit a quality(ies) or value(s) that I admire. They become part of the system of evaluation. However, over time as a person's true colours show (and it is far different or opposite to what they first showed), or if they change significantly, that really f**ks with my head and understanding of the world.

Like a plugged pulled from a drain, the waters of my perceived existence swirl about it and sucked out into the abyssal sewage system below. As I stare deep into the darkness of the drain, the black becomes my sight. Blinded from the world around me, I struggle to see how to restore the water that slipped away before my very eyes and took my sight with it. Lost with the passage of time, I flounder. Until one day something passes before my sight. A hand! My vision races back from the depths of the pipes. I see the hand placing the plug once more in the drain. And I hear the slight creak of the faucet as it turns and the water that flows free from the tap. Once more filling the sink. With the odd feeling of a presence beside me, I turn my head, half-surprised to see another standing next to me, looking down into the sink as I just was. The familiar face turns to me, with a big smile, and says "Whatcha looking at down there? You've been staring at it for the last five minutes. Here, you dry, I'll wash." As I'm handed a towel, a brief glaring light catches my eyes and I glance out of the kitchen window to see the neighbourhood kids playing about in the bright warm sun. Hope and purpose restored, I am ready. And I reach for a dripping dish to dry.

I think my problem is that because I feel so alone in the world, without being close friends or family, without religion to take guidance from, or idols to mimic, and so on, I subconsciously place way too much burden on the shoulders of any one person that does try to be my friend or lover. That is unfair to them. I need to learn to adopt my own my guiding principles and spread out my values, so that I don't try to make someone my absolute everything and baseline for existence. Yeah I may be called weak, but you are mistaken. For I am very strong, with a light that burns with the fury of 10,000 suns. Alone, however, I have no will to wield such power; and the light becomes engulfed in the blackness of space. For it is with the love of and for others, the stars fill the blackened sky, and I see that I am no longer alone. My very heart and spirit is bolstered by their presence, and my will to wield is restored once more.

Addendum: Although it feels very strongly this way, that when someone leaves me, I am destroyed because I cannot live without them. This is not true, however. I am broken, because in-so leaving, they have taken with them a part of my being. I cannot be whole without all of my parts. Give it back motherf**ker! Then I could care less what you do.


There was another point I wanted to make, but got lost on some random tangent. Oops! I'll post it later when I remember.

 

[Jana]

I subconsciously place way too much burden on the shoulders of any one person that does try to be my friend or lover. That is unfair to them. I need to learn to adopt my own my guiding principles and spread out my values, so that I don't try to make someone my absolute everything and baseline for existence. Yeah I may be called weak, but you are mistaken. For I am very strong, with a light that burns with the fury of 10,000 suns. Alone, however, I have no will to wield such power; and the light becomes engulfed in the blackness of space. For it is with the love of and for others, the stars fill the blackened sky, and I see that I am no longer alone. My very heart and spirit is bolstered by their presence, and my will to wield is restored once more.

Addendum: Although it feels very strongly this way, that when someone leaves me, I am destroyed because I cannot live without them. This is not true, however. I am broken, because in-so leaving, they have taken with them a part of my being. I cannot be whole without all of my parts. Then I could care less what you do.

"it is easier to leave than to be left behind." (REM: Leaving New York)

I learnt that I will get over anybody, I know we have to live without being adicted to people (or anything else), but it hurts every time. I just woke up praying that something take away this "my heart will explode when you leave" feeling. I've been there and I am right there this days, so yes, I've been thinking is it me or my Fe that makes me feel this way.

 

[Radiantshadow]

What does Fe mean to you? How do you think it differs from Introverted Feeling (Fi)? Introverted Thinking (Ti)? Extraverted Thinking (Te)? Can you provide an example from your past where you used Fe? How do you use it in your day to day life? For example, think of how you use Fe to solve problems or prioritize your day.

1) Understanding and manipulating social dynamics, contexts, and motivations. Basically knowing what moves us, how we're moved, and why we get moved.

2) Poetically: Fi inhales, is the volcanic fire burning within, while Fe exhales, is the soothing river flowing outward.

3) It's been a while since I've thought about this, but here goes. Fe is a communication system centered around human machination and motivation. Ti is a structural framework that organizes, consolidates, and refines data into logically efficient principles. They bounce off and reinforce one another - Fe looking to Ti for supporting evidence and logical purity for its plans and Ti seeking implementation and validation through Fe's human interaction. (Maybe, I'm kind of sketchy about describing these two together.)

4) Fe and Te are both, and I am shamelessly stealing from @Auburn here, articulation functions. They speak with different voices - social and empirical mastery, respectively - to get the same effect: organizing the outer world to achieve a particular result.

5) A memorable use was speech-giving at a philanthropy function to get donations for an orphanage. I focused on society's responsibility to protect and nurture what it creates, the interconnected nature of progressed human civilization as a whole (inspired by No Man Is An Island by John Donne), and the historical, psychological, and moral eventualities following childhood neglect.

6) Daily, I use it for a lot of things. Organizing my academic efforts to ensure that I will one day be able to provide neurological/mental/medical care to the afflicted. To ensure that my actions align with my morals and that I am fair and genuine towards others (authenticity), to guide my life and character in the direction I wish to go (implementation and reflection). To manage relationships, solve the inevitable issues that arise within (and sometimes outside) their dynamics, establish harmony, demonstrate care to others, and seek deeper emotional bonds (Human management). I mostly consider it a continual moral and psychological cause-effect analysis.

 

[Paladin-X]

I was thinking about this function the other day.
Do you find there to be a difference between the ways in which feelers express Fe and thinkers do?
I know that is a very broad generalization, but I've noticed certain thinkers can go through the motions of expressing Fe -- saying all the right things, etc. yet there is a particular warmth and effusive sense of caring or an expression of sensitivity that is noticeably lacking. I realize the same can be said for feelers who aren't particularly expressive with their Fe.
Anyway, just thinking about it.

Interesting observation. As a quick thought in response, do you think perhaps that a thinker might appear to say all the right things, but it is the confidence in what they say that we pick up on? As for non-expressive Fe's, I remember reading somewhere about Fi types not being able to stand Fe because they often come off as unauthentic. Haha I bet that refers more to xSFJs though (not that all xSFJs are unauthentic or anything, but I am thinking of a couple that I know and it makes sense. It is not that they don't care, but they do seem to struggle presenting it genuinely. For example, my boss is an ESFJ for sure (I work in IT to add context to the following), but people have told me that he lacks sincerity and people skills. Which I kind of laugh at in my head, because I know he is very customer-focussed. Extremely so. And he cares a great deal. But he is very poor at showing it, so he usually tries to buy things to express it. Which come to think of it, I have a hard time expressing it too most times. I usually do or buy things for people to show I care. I'm a mixed bag though. I do know that I come off as someone that genuinely cares at work. But it takes a great deal of energy to do that! If only I were an extravert! Haha!

 

[Paladin-X]

[MENTION=4108]Radiant Shadow[/MENTION]

Thank you for an objective brief analysis of Extraverted Feeling.

I'm not sure about #2. Fi is usually still waters run deep. But then again, I struggle with figurative language a lot and I am confused because I don't even understand that expression anyway. Regardless of semantics, I do like the poetic analogy in and of itself.

And for #3, I like how you broke the functions down into a systematic process. I will need to reflect upon your words. I would agree, however, about Fe and Ti working off of each other. It is like the Yin and the Yang. Two opposing forces, working together to create balance. The same could be said for Ni and Se, and for I vs E (Ni+Ti vs Fe+Se) and the ego vs the shadow (Ni+Fe vs Ti+Se). Though that is merely my opinion.

 

[Radiantshadow]

@Radiant Shadow

Thank you for an objective brief analysis of Extraverted Feeling.

I'm not sure about #2. Fi is usually still waters run deep. But then again, I struggle with figurative language a lot and I am confused because I don't even understand that expression anyway. Regardless of semantics, I do like the poetic analogy in and of itself.

And for #3, I like how you broke the functions down into a systematic process. I will need to reflect upon your words. I would agree, however, about Fe and Ti working off of each other. It is like the Yin and the Yang. Two opposing forces, working together to create balance. The same could be said for Ni and Se, and for I vs E (Ni+Ti vs Fe+Se) and the ego vs the shadow (Ni+Fe vs Ti+Se). Though that is merely my opinion.

Please don't take my word for any of it, I'm just another internet noob with an opinion =) 'Sides, it's 2am and I'm tired.

Let me clarify. All I meant in (2) was that, in general, Fi looks to itself for motivation and motion without much care for convention while Fe finds both in others, usually in a harmonic manner.

 

[Paladin-X]

Please don't take my word for any of it, I'm just another internet noob with an opinion =) 'Sides, it's 2am and I'm tired.

Let me clarify. All I meant in (2) was that, in general, Fi looks to itself for motivation and motion without much care for convention while Fe finds both in others, usually in a harmonic manner.

Thanks for clarifying! That makes total sense to me now! haha! Sorry, I am too literal-minded at times. I would say that is a very apt and succinct description of both functions.

 

[Paladin-X]

"it is easier to leave than to be left behind." (REM: Leaving New York)

I learnt that I will get over anybody, I know we have to live without being adicted to people (or anything else), but it hurts every time. I just woke up praying that something take away this "my heart will explode when you leave" feeling. I've been there and I am right there this days, so yes, I've been thinking is it me or my Fe that makes me feel this way.

Yep. I feel the same way. I really don't like the feeling. I am sorry to hear that you are currently feeling like this.

I think it might be Ti at work. Ti opposes Fe. As we create a break from another, I think we create a break in the balance of Fe and Ti. Ripping them apart as it were, for a time. Two parts of a whole self. Ti represents our internal principles and Fe our external values. Internally we know we are right, but in so dividing, externally we might feel lost. I really don't like the feeling of lost either. Sure the rip is mended over time. But it sucks in the meantime.

 

[CindyLou]

Hmmm. So then Fe is really then, just core trauma? Is that what we are saying? So, Fe as described is a flaw that needs to be fixed. We need to be whole on our own. Correct?

 

[Paladin-X]

Hmmm. So then Fe is really then, just core trauma? Is that what we are saying? So, Fe as described is a flaw that needs to be fixed. We need to be whole on our own. Correct?

No. It is not a flaw, nor weakness. The only flaw or weakness is in how we might have learned to use it because of core trauma. It is more that we need learn how to use it more effectively to feel whole or rather, to gain a better sense of self. If that makes sense?

What confuses me is that society tells us that we need to be whole on our own, but I want to be whole with another. However, I would like to learn how to maintain a sense of self without becoming completely absorbed by another. In my case, I wish to identify myself as a whole with another, not to seek definition of self, but as part of the definition. I am fairly independent, despite somehow coming off as co-dependent. I seek that same concept in a mate. Someone who can do things for herself, but still needs me. Not to be her everything, because it can be annoying at times. Just like I want to do things for myself, but be accepted for needing her as well. I do not want to be two absolute independents trying to form a whole. If that makes any sense at all. This is just my desire.


Now for example, let's say we value family, children, integrity, and helping others. In my case, I subconsciously attach all these value baselines to someone I'm dating. (This does not necessarily reflect any other Fe user. This is a personal example) However, when it is revealed that she does not want any more children, suddenly, I am ok with not having children. Or rather I convince myself, with logic (Ti) that I am ok with not having children. I will rationalize that because she has children, over time I can love them as if they were my own; or sign up for big brother to give my love and support to other children that might need it; or even convince myself that I am getting to be too old to start having children. For integrity, what I am willing or not willing to do will become based on her standards of integrity, modified only slightly depending on what it is. Haha I will not go out and kill someone for example. Or give up my best friend. Same for the others. An Fi person, has far less wiggle room, though they will have some, and may even ignore others altogether, but not because it is based on another's standard, but because another internal value is stronger. For example, an INFP buddy of mine has two conflicting values, work ethic and helping others. Helping others has higher value and thus overrides work ethic. So he often spends time helping others, leaving his own work to the wayside, then works at night to make up the time. If he doesn't, it eats away at him. Even though, no one else cares, including our boss, because we know that he is a good employee. As a (possibly poor?) user of Fe, my conflict is when worlds collide, so to speak. Helping my girlfriend with some stuff during business hours, conflicts with my boss' concept of work ethic (to add context, it is relatively acceptable in my workplace to leave for errands, appointments and such). Sort of. I am stalled because I do not know how to evaluate one over the other. And it doesn't matter which I choose, because either way I feel very horrible. This is at least how I sort of interpret Fe. If am wrong, please be gentle, this comes out of the vulnerable recesses of a damaged soul.


I think perhaps some confusion in type for me, often stems from some sort of rigid intensity. Like I use each function seperately, instead of together. So I lack the balance of the other functions a lot of the time. For example, when enamoured, it is as Fe becomes dominant and Ni takes a quiet backseat as it emphasizes the romantic possiblities, forgetting to look for red flags or ignoring them. I have other similar types of experience when using any other function as well.

 

[CindyLou]

I agree. I have a questionfor you @Paladan-X

do you get scared or feel smothered if you do get absorbed by another?

 

[Paladin-X]

I agree. I have a questionfor you @Paladan-X

do you get scared or feel smothered if you do get absorbed by another?

Yes. Not all the time though. I am pretty easy-going. Sometimes I am scared to be apart, then smothered when together. Haha! I am ready to learn to consciously find balance. Unfortunately I have not had a steady girlfriend in a few years to try out my plan. Which is not as bad as it sounds, even though it sucks. Up until I left my ex 4 years ago, I had never been single really. There was always someone. After my ex, I learned to employ some standards. I am still by no means a pro-star. But at least I'm getting a little pickier.

 

[CindyLou]

the years go by quick now, don't they

 

[Jana]

Now for example, let's say we value family, children, integrity, and helping others. In my case, I subconsciously attach all these value baselines to someone I'm dating. (This does not necessarily reflect any other Fe user. This is a personal example) However, when it is revealed that she does not want any more children, suddenly, I am ok with not having children. Or rather I convince myself, with logic (Ti) that I am ok with not having children. I will rationalize that because she has children, over time I can love them as if they were my own; or sign up for big brother to give my love and support to other children that might need it; or even convince myself that I am getting to be too old to start having children. For integrity, what I am willing or not willing to do will become based on her standards of integrity, modified only slightly depending on what it is. Haha I will not go out and kill someone for example. Or give up my best friend. Same for the others. An Fi person, has far less wiggle room, though they will have some, and may even ignore others altogether, but not because it is based on another's standard, but because another internal value is stronger. For example, an INFP buddy of mine has two conflicting values, work ethic and helping others. Helping others has higher value and thus overrides work ethic. So he often spends time helping others, leaving his own work to the wayside, then works at night to make up the time. If he doesn't, it eats away at him. Even though, no one else cares, including our boss, because we know that he is a good employee. As a (possibly poor?) user of Fe, my conflict is when worlds collide, so to speak. Helping my girlfriend with some stuff during business hours, conflicts with my boss' concept of work ethic (to add context, it is relatively acceptable in my workplace to leave for errands, appointments and such). Sort of. I am stalled because I do not know how to evaluate one over the other. And it doesn't matter which I choose, because either way I feel very horrible. This is at least how I sort of interpret Fe. If am wrong, please be gentle, this comes out of the vulnerable recesses of a damaged soul.

Nice example. I often have this kind of conflicts. I think that one thing is ok, but for harmony in group I stay quiet. I think that the best use of our Fe would be caring for others and helping them, but in same time feeling enough strong to accept differences. INFJ with 4 eneagramm would probably have easier time with this. I am 6w5 and I am easy scared

 

[CindyLou]

[MENTION=5437]Paladin-X[/MENTION]

Thank you for your threads. They've been incredibly helpful. I am 99% confident about Fe now.