Evil INFJs

[Billy]

I spent the weekend at my Aunt Patties in Scicatuate, a small upper scale fishing community in Mass, it was gorgeous. Anyway I haven't seen her since I was like 5 years old, and she has been begging me to connect with her forever so I finally bite the bullet and drove the 3 hours to see her. We spent a fair amount of time talking about family and my grandfather Richard who committed suicide when my father was just 12 or 13. Pattie is the oldest sibling she raised my father so she remembers much more. But she insists that my personality is exactly his personality. (also my brother Ricks personality) Introverted, intuitive, emotional, and judgement oriented big time. Only, the only stories I ever heard about my grand father were of how fucking PSYCHOTIC he was and how much of an alcoholic he was.

Here is a story I was told, My Grandfather would insist on perfect tableside manners for his 8 children at dinner time. Kids werent allowed to talk and if you reached for something he would stab your hand with his fork. Anyway, my uncle Carry was eating with his mouth open one day so Grandfather put a small rug in a corner of the floor and his plate on it and made him eat with no utensils on the ground like a dog. For a month, without flinching.

I mean a seriously disturbed man.

Anyway, of my grandfathers story he was systematically abused as a boy by his father my great grandfather. I mean back in Ireland, abused in a way that, abuse today isnt understood by any longer. Broken jaws and ribs, choked unconcious, beaten daily his entire life. So I can see how he would be twisted and really messed up... so what I am trying to figure out is, how this applies to me, Ive never met Grandfather. But everyone who knew him tells me he is just like me, and they mean it in a positive way because his psychotic behavior didnt start at the begining, it came with the alcoholism and depression and ultimately suicide at the end. Is this how an INFJ can become evil and use our rock solid value system as a weapon against people we love? I mean The amount of will power it takes to force your infant son to eat on the floor like a dog to prove a point and not budge... and the feelings are nothing but anger and hatred because thats all he knew of? I mean... its scary. He did 100s of things worse than that story too by the time he was free falling mentally and emotionally.

What is an evil INFJ?

 

[arbygil]

An ESTP gone wrong = Evil!INFJ.

And to be honest, I'm not sure if perfect table manners are an INFJ trait, drunk or no. I could see it in an ISFJ, but not quite INFJ.

I dunno - I don't know enough about the INFJ gone sour. People have said Anakin Skywalker (aka Darth Vader) was an INFJ, and Hitler.

 

[Billy]

An ESTP gone wrong = Evil!INFJ.

And to be honest, I'm not sure if perfect table manners are an INFJ trait, drunk or no. I could see it in an ISFJ, but not quite INFJ.

I dunno - I don't know enough about the INFJ gone sour. People have said Anakin Skywalker (aka Darth Vader) was an INFJ, and Hitler.

The table manners thing can be an evil INFJ trait I think, kind of like enforcing a core belief in manners or whatever out to his family with an iron fist.

 

[arbygil]

Meeeh, I dunno, though. I think INFJs are less concerned with personal/individual decorum and more concerned with the whole and what everyone is doing. But it's true; a sick, twisted INFJ will criticize an individual when they're not meeting expectations, but I can't see the public humiliation. That's my opinion, though. I'm sure others have more to add.

Shadow realm of INFJ (ESTP):

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTP. Example characteristics are:
*acting very impulsively, making decisions without thinking them through
*doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
*being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
*being preoccupied about unimportant details and doing things that have no meaning
*acting in a very materialistic and selfish way
*cutting corners, breaking the rules, and even contradicting the INFJ's own values.

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/myers-briggs/infj.htm

And here's the shadow of the ISFJ (shadow is ENTP):

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTP. Example characteristics are:
*being very intolerant of others who do not act competently
*suggesting impractical ideas
*being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
*having a gloomy view of the future
*being argumentative

It's that "intolerance of others who do not act competently" that sounds more like your grandfather (to me). But the alcohol abuse sounds INFJ gone to shadow. Still, it's almost impossible to say exactly what someone's type is when they're unhealthy; they could act like anyone, really.

 

[54192&#cmy]

I could see an infj turning into an evil dictator. With enough abuse they will just give into the darker side of themselves. I have always been afraid of my anger and as a child I would let people beat me up because I did not want to touch my dark side. I could have beaten up a lot of kids but I just took it in the end. That lead to resentment towards them from the treatment that I took. In the end it was my fault for not doing anything. But I could see how if you were drinking you could go postal. Alcohol does funny things to the mind and you do not think clearly. And that can lead to bad behavior.

Plus having parents who are mean to you makes for even more trouble. I have very dark feelings and suicidal thoughts are there. I am not afraid to die. I can only imagine how I would act drunk and really pissed off. And not afraid of my consequences oh look out. Your Grandpa came from a time when people did not treat each other well. The things he did were the norm back then. I have heard stories from my grand parents about all kinds of weird things going on in our family. The nice thing is we did not have to go threw that. And we were spared the memories and emotions that come with that kind of life experience.

You can't run from your genetics so I figure that by learning from your family it helps you understand them and yourself. There is a little piece of your Grandpa in you too but it's not a bad thing. You have knowledge that he did not have. And that is why your the next model in the evolutionary chain. The best thing he ever did in life was have kids. Even if he abused them. Your living proof of that.

 

[Odyne]

I could see an infj turning into an evil dictator. With enough abuse they will just give into the darker side of themselves. I have always been afraid of my anger and as a child I would let people beat me up because I did not want to touch my dark side. I could have beaten up a lot of kids but I just took it in the end. That lead to resentment towards them from the treatment that I took. In the end it was my fault for not doing anything. But I could see how if you were drinking you could go postal. Alcohol does funny things to the mind and you do not think clearly. And that can lead to bad behavior.

that is very true...if our efforts of helping or caring go unnoticed or unappreciated, we will be filled with resentment and probabaly lash out on others when being pushed to our limits.

 

[Bored Now]

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTP. Example characteristics are:
*acting very impulsively, making decisions without thinking them through
*doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
*being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
*being preoccupied about unimportant details and doing things that have no meaning
*acting in a very materialistic and selfish way
*cutting corners, breaking the rules, and even contradicting the INFJ's own values.

Hmm it looks like my shadow side has come out to play because I've been acting like that for the last couple of weeks. Sort of. Its more how I *feel* like acting, but I'm trying not to act. Meh, I'm pretty stressed out though, so I won't beat myself up about it. The soul survives these things and this too shall pass.

 

[AUM]

Meeeh, I dunno, though. I think INFJs are less concerned with personal/individual decorum and more concerned with the whole and what everyone is doing. But it's true; a sick, twisted INFJ will criticize an individual when they're not meeting expectations, but I can't see the public humiliation. That's my opinion, though. I'm sure others have more to add.

Shadow realm of INFJ (ESTP):



http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/myers-briggs/infj.htm

And here's the shadow of the ISFJ (shadow is ENTP):



It's that "intolerance of others who do not act competently" that sounds more like your grandfather (to me). But the alcohol abuse sounds INFJ gone to shadow. Still, it's almost impossible to say exactly what someone's type is when they're unhealthy; they could act like anyone, really.

I agree with those lists. My shadow side manifests itself in my mind at first, having bad thoughts that otherwise in my normal state would never even dream of having. I become hyper-critical about everything, super cynical and angry at the world. I don't like when I'm like this because I go to a great state of depression which takes days for me to get over it, it's really horrible.

 

[Orion]

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTP. Example characteristics are:
*acting very impulsively, making decisions without thinking them through
*doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
*being critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything
*being preoccupied about unimportant details and doing things that have no meaning
*acting in a very materialistic and selfish way
*cutting corners, breaking the rules, and even contradicting the INFJ's own values.

I'm slightly disappointed by this shadow list for an INFJ. I think I have "shadowing" for the past few months and I don't do any of this. Maybe breaking my own rules and cutting corners but that's it from there.

 

[Ria]

I see it as the yin and the yan, the opposite of the spectrum has to be eaqual with the other side... if an infj is the most rare type and the most empathetic, then when in distress, it is normal for infj to become selfish. I think I am living proof of that to be honest... I have nothing but disrespect and distain for my parents, it's sad to think that I often say the day that they both die, is the day that I will be truly free. How can a loving, empathetic, caring, deep and intuitive person like me actually be completely void of love? Well I'm not really, and neither was yr grandfather. He was just extremely hurt and disappointed in life. Anger is a secondary emotion to pain, and apathy is the result of too much time feeling broken at the hands of others (or circumstance), so we numb and join the force of anger and hate. Apathy has it's place and time, it's healthy and unfortunatly, people suffer... As an infj, after some time passes and we begin to heal, we feel remorse, but still hold onto the pain deep inside like it's some precious gift that keeps us deserving of the best, as we have an arrogance (and thats ok), because we understand that we r important. Being treated horribly by others is very rejecting, there is a great feeling of injustice that takes plc within our sensitive hearts, thus is the opposite end of the loving infj that has the future and people at heart. After a time of quietness tho, we learn the truths and realize our own weaknesses as we reflect on our rage and apathy. Hopefully we learn from it , altho my lesson is far from mastered. I am still working on forgiveness and trust, I feel thunderous rage and it doesnt scare me, more like gives me a rush for a while, then leaves me exsausted and ready for the shame that follows because it was wasted on my my haunted thoughts, rather than on productive forgiveness... I don't know where to go from here myself, it's like I'm stuck. This is a good point for infj's to understand, perhaps it can shed light on why yr grandfather did what he did Billy.