Erasing and restoring our memories | INFJ Forum

Erasing and restoring our memories

Quiet

i know nothing
Dec 16, 2011
2,028
2,703
892
aus
MBTI
infj
Enneagram
1w9
Erasing and restoring our memories

Eric Niiler
Discovery News
Monday, 2 June 2014

from http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/06/02/4017055.htm


In recent years, researchers studying the brain have implanted false memories, caused patients to hallucinate while sleeping, and even tricked the brain into hearing sounds that don't exist.

Now, a team of neuroscientists has manipulated brain cells to both erase and then restore a memory, a finding that could help with treatment of brain diseases like Alzheimer's or PTSD.

"Technologically, it's a huge achievement," says Steve Ramirez, a graduate student in the department of brain and cognitive sciences at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was not part of the study, but has published work on creating memories.

"It renders that possibility (of manipulating memory) is no longer science fiction, but something you can tackle experimentally in the lab."

In a paper published in the journal Nature, a team at the University of California, San Diego created a memory in a rat and then erased it by stimulating the connections, or synapses, between nerve cells at different frequencies.

The first step was to create a memory. They did this by stimulating a group of nerves in the rat's brain (which equated to the sound of a tone) that had been genetically modified to respond to light, while shocking the animal's foot at the same time.

From the rat's perspective, the sound of the tone (done by stimulating the nerve cells) was equated with the fear of getting a mild shock.

Then the team weakened the connection between the brain cells, which had the effect of erasing that memory.
Manipulating memory

But in a twist, they were also able to recover the fear-pain memory by strengthening the synaptic connection by stimulating the synapse with a different frequency.

"We can form a memory, and then turn it off and turn it on by selectively turning on synapses," says Robert Malinow, professor of neurosciences and an author on the paper. "It puts together a number of things we have known and learned to produce this effect. It reinforces that synapses are important and can control memory."

Malinow says the finding could open the door to manipulating the creation of memories in humans as well. In PTSD, memories of certain traumatic events cause severe anxiety, depression and other problems in patients, while Alzheimer's disease causes us to lose our memories.

A post-doctoral student in Malinow's lab, Sadegh Nabavi, conducted the experiments and is the lead author on the Nature paper.

One expert, however, cautioned that it's still too early to take these findings as a road map creating memories in an artificial brain, for example.

"We don't understand enough about the brain to take those principals and make computers," says Mark Mayford, a neuroscientist at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California. "Instead, people are trying to take a few principals and put them in standard computer software like learning algorithms."

...........Really? Havent these people seen total recall and eraser and strange days? Help us Arnold Schwarzenegger!
 
This is creepy. :m196: I don't want a future like that... It's lovely to think about those real memories, good and the bad. Humans are not computers. Though, I think this would greatly help with fears somehow.
 
I have to agree with [MENTION=11100]flower[/MENTION] on this one….or at the very least, I don’t want to be in the first round of human trials…lol.
I do think that there are good uses for this…such as cases of abuse and PTSD, it could be a godsend for those people who’s everyday lives are effected by past events.
What if they can implant images and ideas into our minds through other means though eventually? What if someone needed a fall guy and implanted the memories of a murder they didn’t commit? That would be a good movie btw…just saying…lol.
I just want people to be aware of the down sides to these things like this. The idea that in several years we may begin to implant things in our heads…phones, memory chips, etc. This is what is supposedly to come…what if this were combined with that…and computer hackers can get into your head?
Maybe I’ve just read too much William Gibson over the years but if this were commercially available that could be very bad.
 
I have to agree with @flower on this one….or at the very least, I don’t want to be in the first round of human trials…lol.
I do think that there are good uses for this…such as cases of abuse and PTSD, it could be a godsend for those people who’s everyday lives are effected by past events.
What if they can implant images and ideas into our minds through other means though eventually? What if someone needed a fall guy and implanted the memories of a murder they didn’t commit? That would be a good movie btw…just saying…lol.
I just want people to be aware of the down sides to these things like this. The idea that in several years we may begin to implant things in our heads…phones, memory chips, etc. This is what is supposedly to come…what if this were combined with that…and computer hackers can get into your head?
Maybe I’ve just read too much William Gibson over the years but if this were commercially available that could be very bad.

A nano/micro smart fluid that has a map of your brain... I've dreamed of those, though I wonder if it would need an implant to control it.
 
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind comes to mind when I read this. There is the potential for much use and abuse in memory technologies.
 
Who says this has not already happened?
 
I think that a book I'm reading at the moment is excellent on this topic, its called More Than Human and in the sci fi masterworks series. Recommended.
 
This is simply what was found in the experiments of the FBI during the 60s
Only the poor neuroscientists are finding it out for themselves right now
And making it public
This proves that people can do scary things to other people
Protect yourself..... run hte fuk away



There have also been public experiments with memory erasure in humans btw
Like the ones where propranolol was given to trauma victims
Apparently it kinda worked but it spawned a massive ethics debate
 
This is simply what was found in the experiments of the FBI during the 60s
Only the poor neuroscientists are finding it out for themselves right now
And making it public
This proves that people can do scary things to other people
Protect yourself..... run hte fuk away



There have also been public experiments with memory erasure in humans btw
Like the ones where propranolol was given to trauma victims
Apparently it kinda worked but it spawned a massive ethics debate
This isn’t new news…these “discoveries” that we can blunt or mute traumatic memories has been around for over a decade now.
Here are some articles for you...



www.breitbart.com

Dr. Roger Pitman, a Harvard University psychiatrist, did a pilot study to see whether it could prevent symptoms of PTSD. He gave 10 days of either the drug or dummy pills to accident and rape victims who came to the Massachusetts General Hospital emergency room.

In follow-up visits three months later, the patients listened to tapes describing their traumatic events as researchers measured their heart rates, palm sweating and forehead muscle tension.

The eight who had taken propranolol had fewer stress symptoms than the 14 who received dummy pills, but the differences in the frequency of symptoms were so small they might have occurred by chance _ a problem with such tiny experiments. Still, "this was the first study to show that PTSD could be prevented," McGaugh said, and enough to convince the federal government to fund a larger one that Pitman is doing now.


From Harvard Magazine -

http://harvardmagazine.com/2004/07/cushioning-hard-memories.html

The more
you love a memory,” Vladimir Nabokov once declared, “the stronger and stranger it is.”

Certainly we never forget the details of our beloved moments: first kisses, college graduations, our children’s births.
“That kind of thing,” said Nabokov, “is absolutely permanent, immortal.”

But some ineradicable memories are of things we desperately want to forget.

For those who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), vivid recollections of the horrific events they survived or witnessed — wars, rapes, accidents, injuries, concentration camp internments — often return relentlessly for years, evoking the same fear, helplessness, horror, and consequent anguish that accompanied the initial experience. This creates a disabling cycle that can be difficult, if not impossible, to break.

But encouraging new research suggests that the beta-blocker drug propranolol, by inhibiting the release of certain stress-related hormones, may stop such unwanted memories from being reinforced in our brains.

Unlike the creepy device that erases undesirable recalls just like files on a computer in the recent film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, propranolol won’t cause PTSD sufferers to forget their ghastly memories, “but it can take out the sting,” says professor of psychiatry Roger K. Pitman.

For a double-blind pilot study published in Biological Psychiatry, Pitman recruited 41 emergency-room patients who had just survived a traumatic event (most were car crashes). Eighteen patients received a 10-day course of oral propranolol; the rest received a placebo.

When the patients returned one and three months later for psychometric assessments (like measuring their heart rates while they listened to previously tape-recorded descriptions of the initial event), those who had received propranolol were less likely to show signs of PTSD.

The results are promising for PTSD prevention, which has traditionally been limited to psychological debriefing, a method increasingly regarded as ineffective.

And although Pitman is excited about the results, he readily admits propranolol is imperfect, particularly because it exacerbates asthma. (Propranolol, a hypertension drug, is widely marketed as Inderal. It is far from winning approval from the Food and Drug Administration for easing stressful memories.)

The biological reason why we never forget significant experiences involves the amygdala, an almond-shaped portion of the temporal lobe.

Highly emotional events stimulate the amygdala to release so-called stress hormones, such as adrenaline, into our hippocampus. These hormones strengthen the recollections, gruesome or lovely, of the events that prompted their release.

In PTSD, graphic memories — frequently including flashbacks and nightmares — not only remain intense over time, but are self-perpetuating.

Each time a sufferer relives the traumatic experiences, the amygdala re-releases stress hormones into the brain, and consequently reinforces already unwanted memories.

But propranolol interferes with the amygdala’s receptors and "takes it off-line," Pitman says. "It blocks the consolidation of memory."

Since the amygdala doesn’t release stress hormones in response to ordinary situations, it’s not surprising we forget where we placed our keys or parked our car. “You are likely to remember in fair detail what you were doing on the morning of September 11, 2001,” says Pitman. “But do you remember what you were doing on the morning of September 10?” This reaction, he maintains, is firmly based in natural selection. “If a primitive hominid decided to take a new route to a watering hole and on her way encountered a crocodile,” he says, “should she fail to remember in the future that a crocodile inhabited that route, she would be more likely to take it again and be eliminated from the gene pool.”

As a society, we place tremendous value on recollection — from court testimonies to cherished reminiscences of childhood — so a drug capable of affecting memory may raise thorny legal and ethical concerns.

If, for example, a woman takes propranolol following an assault, is she jeopardizing the validity of future testimony because her memory has been altered?

Pitman agrees propranolol could threaten successful prosecutions, but "Medical concerns trump legal concerns," he says. "Would you withhold morphine, which can affect memory, from a mugging victim with broken bones?" He emphasizes that propranolol does not eliminate memories, but allows victims "to maintain a level of memory similar to that of a bystander."

But if propranolol, or drugs like it, become an emergency-room staple, will we soon be tinkering with memories of those experiences that, while painful, serve to define who we are, and teach us valuable lessons? “This is a legitimate ethical concern,” says Pitman. “But it is speculative and I wouldn’t let speculation block the ability to help someone. Most people who have PTSD are so debilitated, they would prefer to have their memories tinkered with.”

If tinkering is to be done, then it must be done quickly.
Propranolol must reach the amygdala before a memory has had time to settle in; even 24 hours following trauma may be too late.

Pitman has yet to determine the size of “the window of opportunity,” but it will almost certainly be too short for emergency-room doctors to evaluate a patient’s likelihood of developing PTSD (some people, such as those with smaller hippocampi, may be predisposed to the disorder).

In other words, if propranolol begins to be routinely prescribed, some percentage of those who receive it may not really need it. “You will have to decide,” Pitman says, “if the damage is worse than the benefit.”

~Catherine Dupree
 
My grandpop had alzheimer's. Started in his 80s. I discuss stuff with my pop and worry about his future, though he's only in his 50s. It's painful to experience because you can see the frustration in the sufferer's eyes. It's okay! Please! You are here, I am here. We are together.

Perhaps that's some projection on my part.

(Oddly enough, my grandpop recognized me the last time I saw him. Will I recall this memory when I am 90?)

Stuff like this is interesting in the potential for quality of life improvements. I know one's mind can cause much pain on account of neurochemistry and all. It's upsetting in the sense that fucking with the brain feels disruptive. Tinkering with such sensitive machinery. We can, but should we?

Questions,
 
I think this is a nice way of putting to us that human brain can be programmed and re-programmed - which is nothing new. If you research MK Ultra and other secret CIA programs from early 60's and present day; you will be disturbed and enlightened at the same time of what is really possible with human brain functioning.
 
My grandpop had alzheimer's. Started in his 80s. I discuss stuff with my pop and worry about his future, though he's only in his 50s. It's painful to experience because you can see the frustration in the sufferer's eyes. It's okay! Please! You are here, I am here. We are together.

Perhaps that's some projection on my part.

(Oddly enough, my grandpop recognized me the last time I saw him. Will I recall this memory when I am 90?)

Stuff like this is interesting in the potential for quality of life improvements. I know one's mind can cause much pain on account of neurochemistry and all. It's upsetting in the sense that fucking with the brain feels disruptive. Tinkering with such sensitive machinery. We can, but should we?

Questions,

I'm curious to know if you know your Pop's type. I read somewhere recently that Alzheimers is most common in SJ types mainly ISTJ's & ISFJ's they are linking it to following an overly standardized routine. Introvered Sensing (Si). It would also be of interest to me to compair the areas of the brain targeted in this treatment and the areas of the brain that Nardi's research has deemed to be situated for Introverted Sensing (Si). Si is also the function designated to recal past memories to construct a present reality. All of this information seems to back the other.
 
Yeah... bad applications are definitely possible, especially when you get to the point where you can map someone's neurological tree and understand/trim it.

Practically? There are memories that I can think of that any sane person would rather not have and serve as no lesson besides one of hatred/fear that they shouldn't have to live with.

Fragments? Maybe, but not the whole 9 yards.
 
Sounds like gross over-estimation.

There's no clear delineation between artifical memory formation and natural memory formation where both, however defined, would be occurring simultaneously.

It's the equivalent of me telling you that I am causing you to remember this event currently.
 
[MENTION=4956]charlene[/MENTION]

You might be interested in thishttp://www.technewsworld.com/story/42081.html

Futuristic Proposition

According to the patent, which was granted in the U.S. in 2003, the method of brain stimulation centers on low-frequency pulses that stimulate the neural cortex without requiring any kind of implant.

Described as plausible by an expert in the New Scientist report, the technology could be the basis for a system that allows users to experience various sensations, including sight, taste, smell or sound, the patent states.

As reported by New Scientist, the technology is non-invasive, requiring no implants or wiring to the brain, instead relying on an ultrasonic system that would stimulate the cerebral cortex. Speculation on the technology indicates it could potentially serve to provide realistic vision for the blind, sound for the deaf, or extreme gaming and moviegoing experiences.
 
I would support this just for the simple and selfish fact that it would restore my father's memories. Having both Alzheimer's and PTSD, it's challenging and heat-breaking to see him suffer. Most days he doesn't recognize me as his daughter or his home, he lives in constant fear because he doesn't even know who he is sometimes.

It's fascinating to think of the possibilities this could have for the treatment of ALZ, PTSD, dementias, and other mental illnesses. It will probably come to fruition sooner or later, and of course humans will also use this sort of technology to manipulate and control. Everything is a double-edged sword.
 
This is already going on, you may have participated in it. You just can't remember...
 
  • Like
Reactions: hush