Enneagram Type 8 | INFJ Forum

Enneagram Type 8

Discussion in 'Enneagram' started by VH, May 25, 2011.

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  1. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    The more deeply I read about Enneagram 8, the more it resonates with me. However, Enneagram 8 INFJs (or ENFJs for that matter) are extremely rare, and in a lot of circles considered two types that cannot coexist in the same person. many go so far as to say that NF + 8 is impossible. It certainly feels that way to me. My entire life, I've been a clash of motivations - idealism vs. instinct.

    For those of you in the know about MBTI and Enneagram, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this combination.
     
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  2. Peppermint

    On Holiday

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    It's definitely possible for a dom/aux Fe user. Dom Fi, not, I'd say.
     
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  3. Majesty

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    ENFJ 8 is not that rare and they even fit together.
    INFJ 8 may be less common but it's definitely not impossible.
     
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  4. jyrffw54

    jyrffw54 שכינה עוֹלֶה

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    I can absolutely see a dom Fe user as an 8, but not an aux. I just don't see it as likely, unless it was an 8w9, pehaps?

    Dom Fi users, 99.8% sure will not be an 8.
     
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  5. Majesty

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    Of course IxFPs can be 8s.
    They're not all crybabies who make emo poetry all day.
    Some of them are very, very driven with their values. o_o
     
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  6. jyrffw54

    jyrffw54 שכינה עוֹלֶה

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    Correction:

    I meant to say, I don't think it would be common to find an IXFP 8.

    But which would be more "aggressive": an auxilary/tertiary fi or an auxilary tertiary fe?
     
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  7. OP
    VH

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    In nearly all cases the sx/so stacking applies to me perfectly. In the case of E8, so/sx descriptions seemed to apply more. However, I'm starting to see how Enneagram is much more cause than effect, and the descriptions are almost primarily effect, not cause. If I were to go purely on what I understand of the subtype stackings, I'm fairly certain I'm an sx/so/sp. When I say instincts, I mean sx instincts. The need for a mate, love, sex, and outward instinctive drives. They've been at constant odds with my idealism and perspective.
     
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  8. OP
    VH

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    I've strongly identified with 8w9. I've mentioned this before in other threads, but it bares repeating. My real life friends are prone to agreeing with the 8w9 assessment, and the few that don't admit that they see it as part of my tri-type.

    However, my chiropractor is a certified Enneagram speaker type person (I really need to get the specific title and who certified him) and he is convinced that I'm an 8w9. We even had an anecdotal moment when he started asking me questions. He had originally assumed me to be a 9, because I'm generally very quiet and affable unless there is a reason not to be. I think he opened up with "Are you an easy going person or a 'my way or the highway' person". When I said "Absoultely my way or the highway". He cocked his head and looked at me with utter confusion. He then fell back to "Would you say anger is one of your biggest issues in life?" "Absolutely." He stood there and blinked for a few seconds. I'd never seen him thrown off like that. He said, "Who are you and what have you done with (VH)?" Anyway, after that he asked a few questions to see if I was a 6 or 3, then focused on 8 and 1. It didn't take long to separate 8 and 1.

    I don't focus on typical 8 fixations like money, resources, or objects. However, I would chalk those things up to ExTx manifesting the need for strength, power, and defense in the way that makes the most sense to their perspective. I focused on martial arts, inner strength, spiritual power, and knowing that I can handle myself in any situation and against anyone or in the protection of anyone in my care. My own weakness is intolerable to me when it could cause vulnerability, whether physical, emotional, or spiritual. If it doesn't make me vulnerable, I have no problem with it - one of the reasons I am so much different with people I can trust to let my guard down.

    Edit: ('You' in the general sense) And for the love of all that is your own well being, don't make me regret letting my guard down with you. To paraphrase Jason Bourne "There is no measure of how fast and how hard I will turn on you." I'm not proud of it, but I'm aware of it.
     
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    #8 VH, May 25, 2011
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  9. bickelz

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    Really? I feel like Fi is bound to be more confrontational about personal beliefs than Fe. I feel like Fi is more likely to project it's morals onto others while Fe is more likely to let things slide.
     
  10. OP
    VH

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    Fi 8's don't give a fuck what people think. They're going to do as they damned well please, come hell or high water.
    Fe 8's demand that things be the way they feel they should, and people had better align themselves accordingly.

    In both cases, these F type 8s are driven to assert their feelings.
     
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    #10 VH, May 25, 2011
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  11. Lerxst

    Lerxst Well-known member

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    HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA! Sorry, I just had to let that out. I know exactly that feeling. That's not to say I'm always like that, but it hits a strong note with me as well.

    As my therapist put it for me once in MBTI terms, it's the J that strives for that resolution to a situation. Ignore it long enough, or be forced into a situation where it's ignored for long enough, and it starts to take over and then you get the "my way or the highway" mentality.

    People get floored when I start voicing political beliefs, or just utterly confused. They always assume I think one thing when I think the opposite. Or as my own Chiropractor said, I'm either the most Liberal Conservative he's met, or the most Conservative Liberal he's met... and I live is a really small, backwater town.
     
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  12. OP
    VH

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    I too am a Liberal Conservative. People are often floored when I start talking about how often I fantasize about vengeance and violence.
     
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    #12 VH, May 25, 2011
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  13. Tulip

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    Think of Enneagram type as the core, cognitive functions as the tools, and behavior as the effect. The cognitive functions that a person favors are most likely governed by the motivations which come from the core.

    Cognitive functions that align with the motivations would probably be strengthened and used most often, while those that constantly clash with the motivations would probably be under-developed, or even not used.
     
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  14. OP
    VH

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    I am more inclined to think of Enneagram as the objective, cognitive functions as the tools, and behavior as the product. The individual must learn how to use their tools in order to create the desired product.

    I believe that cognitive functions are very likely the result of genetic predisposition, and Ennegram type is often influenced by development. Therefore, if someone develops in an environment that isn't especially stressful, they will develop their Ennegram type around their cognitive functions. This is why certain Enneagram types are common to certain MBTI types. They simply learn to use their tools, and develop their objectives based on what they are predisposed to do with them.

    However, because some people develop in environments which cause an Enneagram type to develop outside of their inherent tool set, they end up with awkward tools to meet their objectives, and therefore spend their lives creating unusual products. This explains the rare Enneagram-MBTI combinations (when they actually exist and aren't just mistyped).

    However, I agree that people are going to be more inclined to lean on the functions that are best suited to achieve the goals of their Enneagram motivations. For example, an E2 INFJ is going to have a strong Fe. An E5 INFJ is going to have a strong Ni and Ti. An E8 INFJ is going to have a strong Se.

    (Just felt I needed to clarify on this very good theory)
     
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    #14 VH, May 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  15. Chamomile

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    I was typed as Enneagram type 8 from age 12 to 20ish. The description was hilariously accurate. In my opinion, type 8s and INFJs do share some similar qualities, but I grew into a type 8 mostly from extremes in environment. After therapy and dealing with some events/issues, I grew into myself a little more and my INFJness. When I'm pressured/stressed/attacked I see more of the type 8 in me coming out. While living like a type 8 was natural to me in reaction to environment, feeling that kind of aggression was really hard on me and embracing being an introvert helped me find a healthy balance. I think it was an extreme end of the spectrum for me that fit a war zone kind of environment. I remember reading that most type 8s will have certain experiences or feelings growing up that really shape them into it. Maybe it just takes the right combination of stressors to shape an INFJ type 8?
     
  16. Tulip

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    I know at least 3 male 2s in real life that have anger management issues...2s when under stress may appear 8ish.

    Also, none of the above speaks against 6, especially the part about being convinced a type because it is from a trustworthy authority with a certified title. 6s can also have trusting issues and may equip themselves with martial arts to safeguard themselves from any unwanted or dangerous situations.
     
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  17. Tulip

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    Both could be partly genetic and partly development. Enneagram type could be developed due to certain cognitive functions not functioning properly. A person born with low Fe may later on develop into a defense mechanism that is specific for a certain Enneagram type to compensate for the lack of Fe in order to survive in this world. People who highly value intellect may develop their thinking functions at a later stage, in that case their cognitive functions would then be influenced by their Enneagram type.

    So you can never be sure whether your MBTI/JCF is what you were born with. But it is highly unlikely that what you type yourself with is against the total makeup of your Enneagram type. If being in tune with their Fe function is against an 8's self-image, it would probably be very unlikely for an 8 to type themselves as a MBTI/JCF with a well versed Fe function.
     
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  18. OP
    VH

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    Interesting. I've often felt myself resonating with 2's description, but the intentions were always the problem. I had assumed that I was an 8 (or had 8 in my tritype) that moved toward 2 when healthy, rather than the other way around.

    Agreed. I've been looking at the similarities between Counterphobic 6 and 8w9. Perhaps I'm basing my opinions on 6s from my experiences with phobic 6s. They honestly sicken me with their insistent cowardice.

    I very much prefer this approach. Thanks for the perspective.

    This makes a lot of sense for me, as the more my Fe recedes the stronger the 8-like traits begin to manifest in me. When this Fe suppression effect happens, I still have a clear sense of how I feel things should be which becomes even stronger, but I begin to have serious issues with empathy. I feel that I should have empathy, and when I'm at my healthiest I do have empathy (in rare moments in abundance). Unfortunately, when life causes my Fe to react by stepping aside and letting the rest of my mind take over, this 8-like part of my personality comes out to defend myself emotionally. I am rather certain that I developed this mechanism in childhood, and it has left me feeling guilty for not being empathic - especially when I should have been, or when I should not have behaved a certain way. The harder my heart becomes, the more this part of myself surfaces.

    I've been assuming this is Enneagram 8. Though I suppose it could be a very unhealthy 2, if not for the descriptions of unhealthy 2 sounding nothing like this. The descriptions of unhealthy 2 sound like ultra passive aggressive attention seeking histrionic nonsense. "Oh look at me, I'm having a breakdown" kind of stuff. The thought of people seeing me when I am weak (aka vulnerable) makes my skin crawl, and causes me actual anger. Either people will respect me for my strengths or love me for who I am. I'll only accept pity when I have no other choice. Ugh, just thinking about that makes me uncomfortable, and I'm having trouble even letting myself post this.

    However... it does occur to me that the reason for this could be that I've been conditioned to believe that no one will (or even could) love me if I'm weak. That could be an interesting spin on 2, especially since the descriptions of 2's seem to be very female-centric. Male love needs are different, and might manifest different mechanisms. I've often said that the one thing I want more in life is someone to love me, a soulmate, someone to be my comfort and support in this world full of obstacles. I had assumed that was part of being an 8. Perhaps it's just a male manifestation of 2 sx and Counterphobic 6 lurking in my Tritype (I can't keep the Tritype, Trifix, Triad theories straight. They all seem essentially the same to me 3 Enneagram types - one from each center.) Interesting.
     
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    #18 VH, May 28, 2011
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  19. Artsu Tharaz

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    I suspect that enneagram to MBTI correlations are a lot weaker than it seems to commonly be supposed.

    If you think you are type 8, then you probably are. Don't worry about whether it fits your MBTI type or not.
     
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  20. Tulip

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    2s are often not aware of their own intentions. It is in their self-image that they care for the needs of others.

    It sounds like your 2 self-image crashes with your 8 instinct drive.

    You don't have 3 types, only one of them is your core. It is possible that the core type is determined largely by a person's genetic makeup - something you were born with, and the other two fixes were somehow influenced by your environment and developed within your formative years.

    You could be an sx 8 with a 2 image fix that makes you seem softer than most other 8s. I wouldn't rule out sx 6 though.
     
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