Emotional Modesty

[GracieRuth]

I found this artical on the Chabad website. Chabad is very savvy about the MBTI. This artical is for us FEELERS, and how we can PROTECT ourselves by reining in our feelings at times. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/713687/jewish/The-Communication-Trap.htm I hope you click and read the whole artical, but anyway, here is a small portion:

Without feelings, there would be no love, no music, art, poetry or meaningful prayer. But to allow our feelings to rule is like giving the car keys to a three-year-old. Learn not to "emote" and when emotional modesty is needed. It is best to inhibit the expression of feelings in the following situations:

• When sharing will overwhelm others. It is "immodest" to share strong feelings of grief, fear or rage, especially around children, who need to see adults as a source of security and strength. To expose these feelings is just as immodest as exposing parts of the body which should be kept covered if the other person is incapable of receiving your pain with empathy and compassion.
• When sharing will exacerbate self-pity and despair. Griping about problems may help people feel better, for about fifteen minutes. After that, "co-rumination," in which both sides complain, will actually lower the mood, especially if the problem has no solution. Unless there is a real crisis, which demands a truly empathetic friend, it is best to limit yourself to fifteen minutes so that you do not sink in bitterness. Then segue into comforting words of faith and trust in G‑d.
• When you over do the sharing and go on for too long. This often happens with people who suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder. Once they have your ear, they can go and on, raging at you for hours for real or imagined sins against them.
• When sharing will lead others to think you are immature, stupid, unstable or histrionic. This is how most Thinking types view Feelings types. Thus, they will say, "You're too sensitive. You're just feeling sorry for yourself. Get over it. Toughen up!" In their presence, act self-confident and full of faith, even if it is just an act.
• When sharing involves humiliation and shaming of others. According to the laws of rebuke, you can share your opinions only if it is done: calmly, lovingly, in a quiet voice, in private and concerning a trait which the other person is capable of changing. It is no use telling someone that they are disorganized, unfriendly, passive, too sensitive, loud, etc. if the person is not capable of – or has no interest in – changing these traits!
• When sharing will cause others to use the information against you. Many people are fired from jobs because they shared their personal woes, either physical or psychological. If you talk to certain people about how irritated you are by their behavior, they will do whatever is distressing to you even more.

 

[Sriracha]

I understand emotional modesty ... BELIEVE ME. I've been a "robot" for too long in this life and I just want to be "me". I want to "feel" and experience life the way "I want", not how someone else wants. I am so tired of molding to society.

When I was younger, I was such a rebel. NONCONFORMITY YES!!! Well, that gets you no where. So you start your routine the way most others do ... and end up miserable. This doesn't apply to basic social etiquette.

 

[udremeei]

I honestly think I bottle up too much.

I act very cool (non-reactive, if that's the right word?) around others.

...But a lot of people come to ME with their issues. And being that I'm as emotionally sensitive (alas) as I am, their actions/words/rants affect me for a long time.

For instance, I have a friend who voices frustration by growling aloud (no joke). When very angry/frustrated/upset, this person vocalizes: 'RRRRRRRRRGH.'

If I hear that from down the hallway, I immediately respond, even if I don't want to. I start to feel guilty/sad/worries, even though I'm not involved in that situation. I always want to help, make things right, because if I don't, then I start to feel sick. (Does this happen to anyone else, or am I unusually sensitive?)

Anyway, my point is: It's not just INFJ/INFP people who might want to 'tone it down' a little bit around others, for the sake of harmony.


Side note: Wish I could wear like an emotion shield or something. ...Would make my life 1000x easier.

 

[Sriracha]

I honestly think I bottle up too much.

I act very cool (non-reactive, if that's the right word?) around others.

...But a lot of people come to ME with their issues. And being that I'm as emotionally sensitive (alas) as I am, their actions/words/rants affect me for a long time.

For instance, I have a friend who voices frustration by growling aloud (no joke). When very angry/frustrated/upset, this person vocalizes: 'RRRRRRRRRGH.'

If I hear that from down the hallway, I immediately respond, even if I don't want to. I start to feel guilty/sad/worries, even though I'm not involved in that situation. I always want to help, make things right, because if I don't, then I start to feel sick. (Does this happen to anyone else, or am I unusually sensitive?)

Anyway, my point is: It's not just INFJ/INFP people who might want to 'tone it down' a little bit around others, for the sake of harmony.


Side note: Wish I could wear like an emotion shield or something. ...Would make my life 1000x easier.

Yes, why is the "thinker" the norm when so much of the population is not so? Is it that they absolutely do not have the ability at all to identify with the feeler, thus we have to cave in order for a harmonious outcome? I can understand this from a "surface perspective" ... logic for economy, government and society. With logic there can be rules and confines ... with feelings there are none. I'm talking about "ordinary" dealings with people.

 

[GracieRuth]

Because we feelers want harmony so we try to accomodate thinkers. The reverse is so not true.

Sorry but I'm one of those people who says GRRRR! when I become overly frustrated. I prefer it to the F word. I also purrrr when happy. Does that help make up?

I'm just different at age 50. When I was young I so longed for others to understand me. Being highly emotive got me into a lot of trouble with others, and I've experienced a lot of hurt. Now I'm highly guarded. I'm still expressive, but my deeper thoughts and feelings I just keep to myself. I decided its okay if no one understands me, I can be the classic mysterious woman! LOL Anyhow, I wish someone had sat me down and taught me emotional modesty when I was young...

 

[Sriracha]

Should'a, would'a, could'a ... it's all history.

 

[Gaze]

Emotional modesty is important but there needs to be a balance. Keeping too much in is not always best. What we need is healthy ways to express those emotions which are beneficial to us and which don't negatively affect the people and environments we are in.

 

[Norton]

On the other hand...

"A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it."

--Rabindranath Tagore

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Because we feelers want harmony so we try to accomodate thinkers. The reverse is so not true.

Sorry but I'm one of those people who says GRRRR! when I become overly frustrated. I prefer it to the F word. I also purrrr when happy. Does that help make up?

I'm just different at age 50. When I was young I so longed for others to understand me. Being highly emotive got me into a lot of trouble with others, and I've experienced a lot of hurt. Now I'm highly guarded. I'm still expressive, but my deeper thoughts and feelings I just keep to myself. I decided its okay if no one understands me, I can be the classic mysterious woman! LOL Anyhow, I wish someone had sat me down and taught me emotional modesty when I was young...

It would be great if you could pass on your insights to younger lads and lasses. However, learning from those wise through experience doesn't seem to happen in our culture any more.

I really wish emotional modesty (ie. reserve) was still a part of everyday good manners. It is so off-putting when you just need to go about your everyday business, but cannot because people cannot function with professionalism.

I am, however, no advocate for people simply bottling up their emotions - but people need to have a clear sense of acceptable outlets. Trusted friends, or family should be the first port of call - not strangers or work colleagues. (Exceptions are always acceptable in exceptional circumstances).

 

[Ryo]

It would be great if you could pass on your insights to younger lads and lasses. However, learning from those wise through experience doesn't seem to happen in our culture any more.

I really wish emotional modesty (ie. reserve) was still a part of everyday good manners. It is so off-putting when you just need to go about your everyday business, but cannot because people cannot function with professionalism.

I am, however, no advocate for people simply bottling up their emotions - but people need to have a clear sense of acceptable outlets. Trusted friends, or family should be the first port of call - not strangers or work colleagues. (Exceptions are always acceptable in exceptional circumstances).

I don't know. I was VERY emotionally modest growing up to the point of damage to self. I've only recently come to appreciate that the people who really matter in my life make effort to support me when I'm not perfectly in control. I think it really has to be a compromise. There's a way to be vulnerable and show emotion while still being responsible about it and not getting too self-absorbed. I have T friends who can handle it (as long as I'm not mad at them...).

I totally agree that unless you have an unusual workplace, it's not the setting to get too emotional. And that has to do with the culture of professionalism. I'm not entirely convinced that it's right, but that's the way many places are structured. Even when you have very understanding coworkers, I've found that it's best to leave work if you want to vent.

 

[Nixie]

Because we feelers want harmony so we try to accomodate thinkers. The reverse is so not true.

I will have to disagree. I think that it is entirely possible that part of the problem is that we want people to respond to us in our own ways with little respect and understanding if those ways are different from us. It is like I expect you to say "candy" but you say "treat"--so I assume you aren't/won't/can't relate to me. Being able to accomodate or work with others requires a two way sense of communication--it isn't just done all by one party. Just because some Thinker doesn't run and give you a hug doesn't mean they don't have empathy and want you to feel better.

Personally, I think that the decline in extended familial bonds and support has contributed to people's disharmony. It has always been important to maintain emotional modesty or a "public persona". I think the strain of this results in the fact that there is no personal, intimate emotional connection with family to offset it.

 

[Relm]

I will have to disagree. I think that it is entirely possible that part of the problem is that we want people to respond to us in our own ways with little respect and understanding if those ways are different from us. It is like I expect you to say "candy" but you say "treat"--so I assume you aren't/won't/can't relate to me. Being able to accomodate or work with others requires a two way sense of communication--it isn't just done all by one party. Just because some Thinker doesn't run and give you a hug doesn't mean they don't have empathy and want you to feel better.

I agree! It's been quite a journey learning to communicate with my INTJ husband (and we've years to go =P). I've come to understand that, for the most part, it isn't that we are alien, it's that we use different terms for the same things and have different ways of showing support or upset.

 

[Trifoilum]

yep; Echoing [MENTION=3096]Sonya[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4347]Relm[/MENTION], sometimes you have to 'speak the other's language', and others have to understand your own language. The example is the 'count the fingers' method described.

I agreed at most of the what is being described as emotional modesty; I'd like to think of it as simply being tactical. :| Using the word modesty implies the opposite is obscene and thus, forbidden; I'd like to think it was simply ineffective. Although seeing the source, I totally understand where they're coming from. The emphasis on 'personal connection with God' is also strong.

To be honest, I found the bias a bit offensive (those are sharp assumptions), disagreeable (connection =/= dependance), and ineffective in that it puts the burden of alleviation and consolation and problem solving to God, as opposed to oneself.

"God, I'm really having a bad day here, everyone doesn't seem to like me. God, please help me. God, why aren't everything changing?"

But for the content itself, I'm finding myself agreeing in some ways.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I don't know. I was VERY emotionally modest growing up to the point of damage to self. I've only recently come to appreciate that the people who really matter in my life make effort to support me when I'm not perfectly in control. I think it really has to be a compromise. There's a way to be vulnerable and show emotion while still being responsible about it and not getting too self-absorbed. I have T friends who can handle it (as long as I'm not mad at them...).

I totally agree that unless you have an unusual workplace, it's not the setting to get too emotional. And that has to do with the culture of professionalism. I'm not entirely convinced that it's right, but that's the way many places are structured. Even when you have very understanding coworkers, I've found that it's best to leave work if you want to vent.

Much of the culture of professionalism isn't good - probably because it often leads to unprofessional behaviour.

A good professionalism is one that lets people work productively in a calm, peaceful - and politely kind - environment. When people drag co-workers into their domestic troubles everyone's peace is severely disrupted; or when people are way too familiar with each other tensions, jealousies and factions are made.

On the other hand, heartless career-ism, masquerading as professionalism is always about power-plays and almost always subvert a chain of command, leading to confusion, resentment and fights among those being manipulated by a few key career-ists.

I am totally for reserve and good manners, when it comes to work.

 

[Detective Conan]

I really don't have to put any extra effort forth to exercise this "emotional modesty." I guess I'm just even-headed enough to not cap my emotions like that.

 

[redcanyon]

I carry around a little chip on my shoulder about the emotional modesty idea. I hate it that society in general, especially workplaces, sees emotions as weakness or as unattractive (maybe frightening?). I generally agree that we can and should consider our surroundings in how we express ourselves and to whom, but I generally wish there was more room in society at large for the emotional life. How many people take "sick days" from work because they are emotionally needing a break, but could never say so? How often does a person get bad feedback or results because they are not artificially perfectly even-keeled? I think we have to be very careful when talking about limiting or burying or dishonoring our own emotions.

 

[Gaze]

On the other hand, heartless career-ism, masquerading as professionalism is always about power-plays and almost always subvert a chain of command, leading to confusion, resentment and fights among those being manipulated by a few key career-ists.

I am totally for reserve and good manners, when it comes to work.

strongly agree. there is too much political careerism passing itself off as professionalism. You ask someone a question, they are vague and non-descript about their answer because they see you as competition. I mean, seriously. If I ask you a question, it's usually because I want to know not because I feel obligated to ask.

It also annoys me when people show fake interest. I hate playing the smile-game. Yes, it's great to be polite and respectful but when did respect come to mean being falsely expressive and interested in anyone. You can see the forced politeness and interest in someone's face or demeanor, which isn't necessary much of the time. I won't be offended if you are not very sociable. Just don't be rude or mean. Simple.

Add to the list fake conversations. I like to get directly to the point so that I don't waste anyone's time but apparently this is read as too direct. I don't know, what can you do.

*ends rant*

 

[Nixie]

I agree @Rite but again, to a certain extent. Sometimes it is necessary to cultivate "fake" interest because outright--"this is bs and why the F are you bothering me with it" dismissal is also frowned upon...lol...uh...I may have learned that one from personal experience.....sometimes social formalities need to be observed and a background in theatre can help....

 

[Gaze]

I agree @Rite but again, to a certain extent. Sometimes it is necessary to cultivate "fake" interest because outright--"this is bs and why the F are you bothering me with it" dismissal is also frowned upon...lol...uh...I may have learned that one from personal experience.....sometimes social formalities need to be observed and a background in theatre can help....

Thing is, I don't advocate being rude or dispectful, tactless or too honest whether through words or body language. That's not what I mean. Instead, what I mean is that sometimes it's overdone and forced. If you're going show interest, let it appear more natural, and spontaneous rather than rehearsed or scripted. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who constantly has to interact with people who impose this fake interest in ways that don't really accomplish anything. When someone overdoes the niceness, it just makes me want to avoid them tbh. Simple or light interest is fine. I, personally, don't expect you to have a strong interest in my life or what's going on with me unless you're really interested because I reali e everyone is going to have their own things they're handling.

 

[Nixie]

I also think it is important to recognize that everybody has a varying degree of what they consider valuable and appropriate in the workplace. Strictly speaking, within the work environment, one must cultivate a carefully tailored set of behavior in order to stratigicaly get things accomplished. If I have to listen to you bitch about your workload for 10 minutes in order to make it easier for me to add to that workload, I will cultivate or "feign" interest and sympathy regardless of what my personal feelings on the issue are. Inside the confines of my mind, I am one of "those INTJs" a lot of the time and struggle to be more socially aware and responsive to others. Your perception is that they are being "fake", perhaps on their end it isn't fake but rather your perception. Often we mistakenly think our perception of everything is absolutely correct when it isn't even true 50/50 odds that you are correct.