Does love cure people of anger management issues?

[Cuddle Donor]

What I'm really asking is if someone could ever emotionally or physically abuse someone they love (romantically), possibly on a regular basis.

And what of passion crimes where people have murdered their spouses?

Unfortunately, for this discussion to really get anywhere I think there needs to be an unified definition of love, which I can't imagine happening honestly.

I am not asking if love jusitifes this sort of behaviour, but if anyone is willing to try and make the argument that it is justifiable then warn me so I can make some popcorn in time to watch you get crucified.

 

[Dutch Cake]

Someone cannot love the person they abuse. When a person abuses another the person they are abusing are no longer a person to the one doing the abuse.

 

[slant]

It's possible. I've known people who were abuse victims themselves; the younger they are the harder it hits them. I had a friend who was a year younger than I around for the longest time. She had been abused to the point where she was pushed down stairs by her temperamental father, and her mother, who was also abused by the father, would take her shopping every time this happened out of guilt.

When my friend hung out with me, she was always hitting and punching me. I'd ask her to stop, but she would just laugh. After a while of this, I was angered to the point where I had to pin her down and tell her to stop. Not even this stopped her. She laughed. Later she apologized and said she didn't mean to hurt my feelings.

To her, physical abuse seems to be the only way she knows to express herself. Her parents didn't raise her correctly and she's had virtually no support so she's become a spoiled brat who beats up her friends. I am no longer friends with this girl because of how violent she is, but she does love her friends and she is ferociously loyal.

This was not on a romantic level, however I know people whom are sweethearts who once they get under the influence of something they turn violent. Also, people who are mentally unstable are still capable of feeling love and beating the shit out of those people.

 

[acd]

People who are abusive do not love themselves. If a person does not love themself, they cannot love another person. The other person (victim) becomes something the abuser crushes and manipulates into that empty spot in their heart. The abuser does not regard their partner as another person--but an object used to satisfy themselves.. The victim becomes like a drug the abuser uses to maintain emotional highs through power-trips and the like.

If the victim truly loves the abuser they should leave the abuser. Staying in an abusive relationship is only going to enable the abuser to keep hating themselves. At least if the victim leaves, there is a slim chance the abuser will seek professional help and do some introspection and work on healing themself.

This is NOT to say that the victim deserves the abuse. It is much more complicated than a statement like that. The abuser through their manipulation is able to make the victim feel like they don't have a choice but to stay through brainwashing or training. There is an entire cycle of abuse that explains that. In fact, it's called The Cycle of Abuse.
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page5.html


http://cl-wishful78.tripod.com/RDAHomePage.cfm

 

[Dutch Cake]

Slant, your friend needs some help. Victims of abuse are hurt and confused. She needs some very serious counseling. Just because she expresses her self though abuse doesn't mean she can change. She may find herself as a gentler more understanding person.

 

[slant]

Slant, your friend needs some help. Victims of abuse are hurt and confused. She needs some very serious counseling. Just because she expresses her self though abuse doesn't mean she can change. She may find herself as a gentler more understanding person.

I'm not friends with her any longer; frankly, I don't think she can change. I did the best I could to help her but troubled teenagers don't want to talk to adults, all they want to do is whine and complain. If it were an ideal world, there wouldn't be violence towards someone they loved. But as it is, it isn't an ideal world and abusers still have feelings and are still capable of love; it's just a sick, demented form of love that stems from bad parenting and lack of ability to handle other life-changing events.

 

[Naxx]

Love for someone increases the value of that person to you. However if you ask if love is a sure bet of warding off violence I don't believe that to be true.

I'll use myself as an example.

When I was much younger, I was very selfish, fearful, and anger prone and I would hurt my dog from time to time; To this day I still love my dogs more than anything else in the world thus far.

Just me alone, I can tell you for a fact you can be abusive and still love something very much.

Abuse normally stems from habits learned when younger, I can tell you that my father has never really abused me. However when I was younger he has had large outbursts of anger and threaten to use physical force to the point of wielding something. So you could say I learned that agression leads to results.

However for me to get rid the negative aspects of agression habits I had to realize the problems. Not only the problems but the structures of those problems and why they effected me.

But wait it gets deeper than that, knowing all that would only give me the access to blame those and that does not wield the results I wanted (which is to actually solve the precieved problems). I had to look into not only the habits but the insecurities that those habits also formed, then figure out how to get rid of them.

Most of the problems was solved by viewing them from many perspectives and understanding not only yourself, other people but also the world.

However I can tell you that studying and understanding more and more about all the various aspects of love makes you less violent as you appreciate everything around you.

 

[anica]

People who are abusive do not love themselves. If a person does not love themself, they cannot love another person. The other person (victim) becomes something the abuser crushes and manipulates into that empty spot in their heart. The abuser does not regard their partner as another person--but an object used to satisfy themselves.. The victim becomes like a drug the abuser uses to maintain emotional highs through power-trips and the like.

If the victim truly loves the abuser they should leave the abuser. Staying in an abusive relationship is only going to enable the abuser to keep hating themselves. At least if the victim leaves, there is a slim chance the abuser will seek professional help and do some introspection and work on healing themself.

This is NOT to say that the victim deserves the abuse. It is much more complicated than a statement like that. The abuser through their manipulation is able to make the victim feel like they don't have a choice but to stay through brainwashing or training. There is an entire cycle of abuse that explains that. In fact, it's called The Cycle of Abuse.
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page5.html


http://cl-wishful78.tripod.com/RDAHomePage.cfm

These are both great links with lots of good info. Thanks for taking the time ad effort to share them, Merrytrees. I think I'm going to post something I wrote on some of the internal mechanics of abuse in the writers' forum...maybe...if I get my nerve up.

 

[acd]

These are both great links with lots of good info. Thanks for taking the time ad effort to share them, Merrytrees. I think I'm going to post something I wrote on some of the internal mechanics of abuse in the writers' forum...maybe...if I get my nerve up.

I hope you do post!! It's a topic that needs to be talked about way more than it is. I did not realize how widespread it was until recently--and yet how silent everyone is about it.. It needs to be talked about.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Most abusers - physical or sexual were abused themselves as children. It is a sad thing to see - an innocent child who has abusive parents - because you know that the same child will probably be an abusive adult later on.

Abuse is a learned behaviour, which helps the abuser to deal with overwhelming emotions. We all have our different techniques for dealing with frustration or anger or whatever.

I usually become passive-agreesive or play the victim in difficult situations - I suspect I learnt this from my grandmother. However, recognising the fact helps me to decide not to act out my pre-programmed coping technique.

I agree with Naxx, I think that abusers can very much love the people they abuse. This is because the ones we most love can easily become the source of our greatest sorrows and pain (through rejection or whatever). I don't condone abusive behaviour, but I don't think demonizing it helps either. I think abusers either need help to learn better techniques to deal with negative emotions, or they need to isolate themselves so that they don't end up abusing others.

 

[acd]

Most abusers - physical or sexual were abused themselves as children. It is a sad thing to see - an innocent child who has abusive parents - because you know that the same child will probably be an abusive adult later on.

Abuse is a learned behaviour, which helps the abuser to deal with overwhelming emotions. We all have our different techniques for dealing with frustration or anger or whatever.

I usually become passive-agreesive or play the victim in difficult situations - I suspect I learnt this from my grandmother. However, recognising the fact helps me to decide not to act out my pre-programmed coping technique.

I agree with Naxx, I think that abusers can very much love the people they abuse. This is because the ones we most love can easily become the source of our greatest sorrows and pain (through rejection or whatever). I don't condone abusive behaviour, but I don't think demonizing it helps either. I think abusers either need help to learn better techniques to deal with negative emotions, or they need to isolate themselves so that they don't end up abusing others.

I don't mean to demonize, but really... It's nasty. And that's true. If you've ever been on the receiving end of it.. It can kill you from the inside out. I do agree that it is a learned behavior.. but sadly enough, the statistics on abusers who do seek help and who do overcome their violence (whichever form of violence it takes) are very low. It's best just to recognize the abuse early on and leave. I do not see how you can repeatedly harm someone and truly love them. Maybe you feel the emotion of love, but love transcends feelings.

 

[anica]

Most abusers - physical or sexual were abused themselves as children. It is a sad thing to see - an innocent child who has abusive parents - because you know that the same child will probably be an abusive adult later on.

Abuse is a learned behaviour, which helps the abuser to deal with overwhelming emotions. We all have our different techniques for dealing with frustration or anger or whatever.

I usually become passive-agreesive or play the victim in difficult situations - I suspect I learnt this from my grandmother. However, recognising the fact helps me to decide not to act out my pre-programmed coping technique.

I agree with Naxx, I think that abusers can very much love the people they abuse. This is because the ones we most love can easily become the source of our greatest sorrows and pain (through rejection or whatever). I don't condone abusive behaviour, but I don't think demonizing it helps either. I think abusers either need help to learn better techniques to deal with negative emotions, or they need to isolate themselves so that they don't end up abusing others.

I disagree that people who were abused as children will probably grow up to be abusers themselves. People can--and often do--make the choice not to pass on the abuse they suffered. I believe it helps if adults who were victims of abuse have at least some healthy relationships with adults when they are young, but I still believe abuse is a choice and not something programmed into us; those of us who were abused as youngsters are not destined to repeat our parents' mistakes. Though their violence may have a profound effect on us, we still have a choice when it comes to parenting our own children.

Perhaps one of the worst legacies abusive parents leave their children is the absence of good role models for parenting. It takes a lot of work--at least in my experience--for anyone to be a good parent, but the task is doubly hard for people without good role models. Still, this, too, can be learned behavior, whether by reading or by watching how people you consider good parents interact with their children. I did some of both before deciding to have children at the ripe old age of 36. Before that age I was too afraid to risk repeating the family pattern. I'm glad I made the choice I did; I have learned more about love from being a parent than from any other experience in my life. One thing I regret is "falling in love" with an abusive man who abused not only me but one of our children as well.

 

[acd]

I disagree that people who were abused as children will probably grow up to be abusers themselves. People can--and often do--make the choice not to pass on the abuse they suffered. I believe it helps if adults who were victims of abuse have at least some healthy relationships with adults when they are young, but I still believe abuse is a choice and not something programmed into us; those of us who were abused as youngsters are not destined to repeat our parents' mistakes. Though their violence may have a profound effect on us, we still have a choice when it comes to parenting our own children.

Perhaps one of the worst legacies abusive parents leave their children is the absence of good role models for parenting. It takes a lot of work--at least in my experience--for anyone to be a good parent, but the task is doubly hard for people without good role models. Still, this, too, can be learned behavior, whether by reading or by watching how people you consider good parents interact with their children. I did some of both before deciding to have children at the ripe old age of 36. Before that age I was too afraid to risk repeating the family pattern. I'm glad I made the choice I did; I have learned more about love from being a parent than from any other experience in my life. One thing I regret is "falling in love" with an abusive man who abused not only me but one of our children as well.

I think you're right. Not all abused children grow up to become abusers. Though children who grow up and do not become abusers are probably resilient. Sure, they have issues and emotional scars from the abuse, but due to their resiliency they are able to detach themselves from their miserable experience and evaluate it, instead of perpetuate it.

Also, if they have some outside support that helps to nurture their self-esteem (like a teacher or a relative not involved in the abuse) they are likely not to become abusive.

 

[Bored Now]

Seriously, I grew up with nasty abuse. I was spared for the most part, but I still witnessed nasty stuff. But, I don't know. I never thought it was ok and I would NEVER EVER accept that behavior for myself. The only thing it did was give me a bit of a "Captain Save A Ho" complex where I was drawn to "rescuing" victims of abuse and a extreme distaste for bullies in general. But that's mellowed over the years as I've come to understand the insidious complexity of domestic violence.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I disagree that people who were abused as children will probably grow up to be abusers themselves. People can--and often do--make the choice not to pass on the abuse they suffered. I believe it helps if adults who were victims of abuse have at least some healthy relationships with adults when they are young, but I still believe abuse is a choice and not something programmed into us; those of us who were abused as youngsters are not destined to repeat our parents' mistakes. Though their violence may have a profound effect on us, we still have a choice when it comes to parenting our own children.

Perhaps one of the worst legacies abusive parents leave their children is the absence of good role models for parenting. It takes a lot of work--at least in my experience--for anyone to be a good parent, but the task is doubly hard for people without good role models. Still, this, too, can be learned behavior, whether by reading or by watching how people you consider good parents interact with their children. I did some of both before deciding to have children at the ripe old age of 36. Before that age I was too afraid to risk repeating the family pattern. I'm glad I made the choice I did; I have learned more about love from being a parent than from any other experience in my life. One thing I regret is "falling in love" with an abusive man who abused not only me but one of our children as well.

Whoops - the pattern of learning abusive behaviour by children is learnt from the parent of the same sex. - I meant to add that to my original post. -
So in a family where the father is abusive, it is likely that the sons will be abusive and the daughters, imitating their mother, will seek out abusive husbands. Vice versa if the mother is abusive - and I have seen it: a neihbour of mine (where I used to live) used to get beaten up very severely by his wife when she got angry.

 

[acd]

Whoops - the pattern of learning abusive behaviour by children is learnt from the parent of the same sex. - I meant to add that to my original post. -
So in a family where the father is abusive, it is likely that the sons will be abusive and the daughters, imitating their mother, will seek out abusive husbands. Vice versa if the mother is abusive - and I have seen it: a neihbour of mine (where I used to live) used to get beaten up very severely by his wife when she got angry.

Interesting. My dad was physically abusive to my mom.. When I grew up, I almost married a man the complete opposite of my dad.. Ex was short and scrawny and intellectual and super-sensitive... and surprisingly enough, he turned out to be abusive, too. The thing that prompted me to leave was the way my dad treated my mom. I wouldn't have known otherwise... Even though I left, for a long time I blamed myself as if I deserved it.. but because I had lived it and seen it before, I couldn't bring myself to blame myself enough to go back..

 

[Azure_Knight]

Abuse is not love. But someone can be abused by 'love'.

 

[Milon]

Nothing is ever black and white when it comes to people.

My own dad loves me a lot, and yet by today's standard, he was emotionally abusive to me. I know he really does love me. But his own childhood gets in the way; his scars hurt me.

 

[Julia]

There are two fundamental components to explore in this topic.

The first is the sense of personal attachment. Attachment is associated with a sense of need and/or entitlement. A child's love for a parent is combined with their need for that parent. When a person has emotional deficits (some of these based on stunted development) the person has a stronger sense of need which results in attachment. This kind of personal deficit can also be directly related to anger. Anger typically results from a sense of a personal right that is violated. Its foundation is entitlement. When a person has a deep sense of need, this is often combined with a sense of entitlement to have the need filled. This results in a romantic attachment identified as love. It can also result in a sense of entitlement to have certain needs met by the romantic partner and anger if they don't live up to the expectations. It is this sort of love that combines abuse and the romantic passion of attachment.

The second component is concern for the well-being of another person. The mother will sacrifice self for the well being of her child even if that child cannot return in kind. There is a way to love another without the assumption that they will return and fill your needs in equal or greater portion. I realize being too sacrificing in a romantic relationship enters into a dynamic of excessive need which is the above problem.

There is an issue of balance here. What I described above are more extreme examples of each. A healthy relationship requires some mutual need, inner strength, and genuine concern for the well being of the other person.

 

[Lucifer]

What I'm really asking is if someone could ever emotionally or physically abuse someone they love (romantically), possibly on a regular basis.

Yes

Unfortunately, for this discussion to really get anywhere I think there needs to be an unified definition of love, which I can't imagine happening honestly.

Haha yeah

Well maybe we should go from the ides that if the person says that they loves the person that they hurt it's possible that they really do.

I am not asking if love jusitifes this sort of behaviour, but if anyone is willing to try and make the argument that it is justifiable then warn me so I can make some popcorn in time to watch you get crucified.

LOL