Did Christ DIE for EVERYONE?

[SovereignGrace]

This is one of the most important QUESTIONS one could ask:

Did CHRIST DIE for EVERYONE in the WORLD?

And the answer is: NO. HE CLEARLY DID NOT.


Despite NUMEROUS PASSAGES in the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT which DELARE the SOVEREIGN ELECTION of GOD, MULTITUDES INSIST that CHRIST DIED for ALL, even though CHRIST HIMSELF said he DID NOT.

If you will be SAVED, God must bring you to a knowledge of the TRUTH, and not LIES.

CHRIST did NOT DIE for the WHOLE WORLD, and if you BELIEVE that he DID, you are under a Satanic DELUSION.

Read John

Read JOHN, Chapter 10, the words of CHRIST HIMSELF. He died for the SHEEP, and ONLY the SHEEP:

10 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”

6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees;
and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

[/U]15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.

18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?”

21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”


22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.

24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

30 I and My Father are one.”

So you see,

SOME are his SHEEP, and SOME are NOT.

And he clearly says OVER and OVER: "I lay down my life for THE SHEEP."

If YOU do NOT believe the WORDS of CHRIST, it's BECAUSE YOU are NOT of HIS SHEEP.

CASE CLOSED.


BUT THAT'S NOT ALL.

If you would know the TRUTH, you must ALSO Read John 17, where CHRIST doesn't even PRAY for the world, but prays ONLY for his SHEEP, who come OUT of the WORLD:

17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world.

They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.

8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them,
and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name.

Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;

21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.

26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

Once again,

IT'S ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that he did NOT DIE for the WHOLE WORLD, but ONLY THOSE that the FATHER GAVE HIM, OUT of the WORLD.



Now, People OFTEN REFER to JOHN 3:16, to back up their false doctrine of "UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION," but they IGNORE verses 17 and 18.

And they do so to their own destruction.

Now, LISTEN:

He who BELIEVES on CHRIST is NOT CONDEMNED, but he who DOES NOT BELIEVE is CONDEMNED.

It SAYS SO in John 3:16-18 :

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

AGAIN, you MUST BELIEVE on the CHRIST of the SCRIPTURES. If you do not, you are NOT of his SHEEP.

He DIED for THE SHEEP, and ONLY THE SHEEP. And he ACCOMPLISHED REDEMPTION for THEM.

He PAYED the FULL RANSOM PRICE for ALL of THEIR SINS, and they WILL HEAR his VOICE and FOLLOW HIM.

If YOU are one of his SHEEP, then GOD, will, give you FAITH to BELIEVE on HIS SON.


DO YOU BELIEVE on GOD'S SON?

If you DO, then you will BELIEVE HIS WORDS, and you will REST and TRUST in HIM.

AGAIN, in VERSE 9, the LORD JESUS SAYS these words:

I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

May God OPEN YOUR EYES to the TRUTH, and give you REPENTANCE and FAITH in HIS SON.

 

[sprinkles]

LOL you've been brought to light and it's killing you, isn't it.

Yesss. It's killing you. You squirm. You suffer. You will make more threads, and insist, and shout, and use more emphasis, and flail in your throes like a worm on a hot rock.

And it isn't even over. You will do more. And you will keep disrupting and demanding attention because this is your hell. It gnaws at you and drives you mad and you will not be able to stop yourself.

Squirm!

 

[Skarekrow]

 

[Skarekrow]

This is one of the most important QUESTIONS one could ask:

Did CHRIST DIE for EVERYONE in the WORLD?

And the answer is: NO. HE CLEARLY DID NOT.


Despite NUMEROUS PASSAGES in the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT which DELARE the SOVEREIGN ELECTION of GOD, MULTITUDES INSIST that CHRIST DIED for ALL, even though CHRIST HIMSELF said he DID NOT.

If you will be SAVED, God must bring you to a knowledge of the TRUTH, and not LIES.

CHRIST did NOT DIE for the WHOLE WORLD, and if you BELIEVE that he DID, you are under a Satanic DELUSION.

Read JOHN, Chapter 10, the words of CHRIST HIMSELF. He died for the SHEEP, and ONLY the SHEEP:



So you see,

SOME are his SHEEP, and SOME are NOT.

And he clearly says OVER and OVER: "I lay down my life for THE SHEEP."

If YOU do NOT believe the WORDS of CHRIST, it's BECAUSE YOU are NOT of HIS SHEEP.

CASE CLOSED.


People OFTEN REFER to JOHN 3:16, to back up their false doctrine of "UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION," but they IGNORE verses 17 and 18.

And they do so to their own destruction.

Now, LISTEN:

He who BELIEVES on CHRIST is NOT CONDEMNED, but he who DOES NOT BELIEVE is CONDEMNED.

It SAYS SO in John 3:16-18 :



AGAIN, you MUST BELIEVE on the CHRIST of the SCRIPTURES. If you do not, you are NOT of his SHEEP.

He DIED for THE SHEEP, and ONLY THE SHEEP. And he ACCOMPLISHED REDEMPTION for THEM.

He PAYED the FULL RANSOM PRICE for ALL of THEIR SINS, and they WILL HEAR his VOICE and FOLLOW HIM.

If YOU are one of his SHEEP, then GOD, will, give you FAITH to BELIEVE on HIS SON.


DO YOU BELIEVE on GOD'S SON?

If you DO, then you will BELIEVE HIS WORDS, and you will REST and TRUST in HIM.

AGAIN, in VERSE 9, the LORD JESUS SAYS these words:



May God OPEN YOUR EYES to the TRUTH, and give you REPENTANCE and FAITH in HIS SON.

 

[Skarekrow]

 

[j654dgj7]

A thread that asks a question in the title and then violently answers the title as if it was a fact in the very first post. Hmm.

[video=youtube;W1yYEDjeWA8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1yYEDjeWA8[/video]

 

[BrokenDaniel]

Meheee, meheeee, meeeheheeeee. Christ died for me, i'm a sheep, but a lady wolf took me away. Meehehehee, mehehehee, sweet damnation and interracial intercourse<3<3<3.

 

[Tin Man]

No, you've got it all wrong. I died for Christ. We were in nam, Charlie surrounded us and we were takin' some serious heat. I told Jesus to get out of there, he had a wife and kid who needed him. I laid down suppressing fire while he ran for the copter. Bullets hit me again and again, but I couldn't hear anything over my guttural screams.

I pulled each ring on my grenade belt and ran at those bastards. The ground shook.

Christ went home to his wife and kid.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Can you die if you were never alive?

 

[j654dgj7]

No, you've got it all wrong. I died for Christ. We were in nam, Charlie surrounded us and we were takin' some serious heat. I told Jesus to get out of there, he had a wife and kid who needed him. I laid down suppressing fire while he ran for the copter. Bullets hit me again and again, but I couldn't hear anything over my guttural screams.

I pulled each ring on my grenade belt and ran at those bastards. The ground shook.

Christ went home to his wife and kid.

Man, let me tell you. As someone that fought in Nam too, I appreciate your sacrifice!

Today I meet youngsters that don't know half' the sacrifices that were given to the kids of today.

[video=youtube;Qjzjhl-QztE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjzjhl-QztE[/video]

We met as soul mates on Parris Island
We left as inmates from an asylum
And we were sharp, as sharp as knives
And we were so gung ho to lay down our lives

We came in spastic like tameless horses
We left in plastic as numbered corpses
And we learned fast to travel light
Our arms were heavy but our bellies were tight

We had no home front, we had no soft soap
They sent us Playboy, they gave us Bob Hope
We dug in deep and shot on sight
And prayed to Jesus Christ with all of our might

We had no cameras to shoot the landscape
We passed the hash pipe and played our Doors tapes
And it was dark, so dark at night
And we held on to each other
Like brother to brother
We promised our mothers we'd write

And we would all go down together
We said we'd all go down together
Yes we would all go down together

Remember Charlie, remember Baker
They left their childhood on every acre
And who was wrong? And who was right?
It didn't matter in the thick of the fights

We held the day in the palm of our hands
They ruled the nights, and the nights
Seemed to last as long as six weeks...

...On Parris Island
We held the coastline, they held the highlands
And they were sharp, as sharp as knives
They heard the hum of our motors
They counted the rotors
And waited for us to arrive

And we would all go down together
We said we'd all go down together
Yes we would all go down together

 

[Tin Man]

Man, let me tell you. As someone that fought in Nam too, I appreciate your sacrifice!

Today I meet youngsters that don't know half' the sacrifices that were given to the kids of today.

Don't worry, I've got World War 3 planned for 2016. Those kids will soon learn what it's like to serve your country

Watching your friends being torn to shreds by machine guns really knocks all the sass out of a kid. It also leaves them with PTSD and night terrors, but by God it's worth it.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

This is one of the most important QUESTIONS one could ask:

Did CHRIST DIE for EVERYONE in the WORLD?

And the answer is: NO. HE CLEARLY DID NOT.

I think the question is more complicated than the way you ask it.

For whom did Christ offer himself in sacrifice? And to whom did he offer himself in sacrifice?

It is obvious that Christ offered his sacrifice to the Father, in atonement for sin, to blot out offense, to right the injustice of sin against God.
Since God is infinite, any offense against Him has an infinite quality about it, so any sacrifice to atone for offense must also have an infinite quality about it, which is why the sacrifice of mere creatures (ox and sheep in the Temple) was never sufficient, but gained their efficacy in anticipation of the true lamb of sacrifice - Christ, the lamb that takes away the sins of the world. Indeed, Christ being divine, a single drop of His blood is of sufficient value to blot out all the sins of all men for all time. In terms of the efficacy in atoning for sins, Christ did atone for all sins of all men.

However, the benefit for men merited by Christ, salvation, is obviously not attained by all men. This is not because of something lacking in His sacrifice, or in His goodwill to all men, but because of a defect in men's acceptance of salvation.

So, in terms of the universality of Christ's sacrifice, it was entirely universal, but in terms of its application, it will only be for those who accept it. Nevertheless, Christ did die for the sins of all mankind. If he did not, there would be a limitation in His sacrifice offered to the Father, and it is impossible to believe that Christ did not offer a perfect sacrifice and restore the balance of justice.

One may argue that the punishment of sinners in hell would achieve the balance of justice, but nothing endured by a creature can measure up to what is due to God on account of sin.



Another aspect, is the question of whom Christ offers salvation to. The answer is every single human. The passages quoted in the OP are mostly interpreted by the early Church fathers to mean universal salvation (in terms of availability).

The parable of the lost sheep, and the 99 who were not lost is interpreted understanding humanity as the lost sheep, and the angels as the 99 in no need of repentance. Some could try and argue that the sheep of our Lord is the house of Israel, except the explicit teaching of the Apostles and their activity indicate that humanity is the lost sheep.


So, I believe that Christ died for all people, and offers salvation to all people. However, salvation is not universally obtained, not because of a defect in Christ's offering, nor because of a restriction in Christ's offer, but because of a refusal of acceptance on the part of the individuals who will not be saved.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I dont get this really. Christ had no fear, he knew he would be going to a place better than earth when he died. I suggest he was even looking forward to it.

 

[Skarekrow]

@SovereignGrace


Why don’t you actually ASK a question that you would like to hear opinions on or answers to?
It is a logical fallacy to “ask” “Did Christ die for everyone?” only to follow it up with “No, he clearly did not.”.
You are making a statement, not asking a question.
Go start a blog if you want to just read your own ramblings and sniff your own rose-scented farts.

 

[LucyJr]

I dont get this really. Christ had no fear, he knew he would be going to a place better than earth when he died. I suggest he was even looking forward to it.

Well so does every christian knows. That's what martyrs know, that they will raise in heaven. Indeed, Christ had no fear, and true christians have no fear. So what is the point are you trying to make?

 

[LucyJr]

Can you die if you were never alive?

Do you know that Jesus Christ never existed, or do you just believe?

 

[Skarekrow]

Well so does every christian knows. That's what martyrs know, that they will raise in heaven. Indeed, Christ had no fear, and true christians have no fear. So what is the point are you trying to make?

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[TD="align: left"]"Abba, Father, all things are possible to you. Please remove this cup from me. However, not what I desire, but what you desire."

[/TD]
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Doesn’t that suggest that he was afraid?

And so what if he was? Maybe he wasn’t afraid of where he would go once he died, but why couldn’t he still be afraid of the pain he knew he would endure?

Does that diminish Christ for you somehow if he had fear?

 

[SovereignGrace]

I think the question is more complicated than the way you ask it.

For whom did Christ offer himself in sacrifice? And to whom did he offer himself in sacrifice?

It is obvious that Christ offered his sacrifice to the Father, in atonement for sin, to blot out offense, to right the injustice of sin against God.
Since God is infinite, any offense against Him has an infinite quality about it, so any sacrifice to atone for offense must also have an infinite quality about it, which is why the sacrifice of mere creatures (ox and sheep in the Temple) was never sufficient, but gained their efficacy in anticipation of the true lamb of sacrifice - Christ, the lamb that takes away the sins of the world. Indeed, Christ being divine, a single drop of His blood is of sufficient value to blot out all the sins of all men for all time. In terms of the efficacy in atoning for sins, Christ did atone for all sins of all men.

However, the benefit for men merited by Christ, salvation, is obviously not attained by all men. This is not because of something lacking in His sacrifice, or in His goodwill to all men, but because of a defect in men's acceptance of salvation.

So, in terms of the universality of Christ's sacrifice, it was entirely universal, but in terms of its application, it will only be for those who accept it. Nevertheless, Christ did die for the sins of all mankind. If he did not, there would be a limitation in His sacrifice offered to the Father, and it is impossible to believe that Christ did not offer a perfect sacrifice and restore the balance of justice.

One may argue that the punishment of sinners in hell would achieve the balance of justice, but nothing endured by a creature can measure up to what is due to God on account of sin.



Another aspect, is the question of whom Christ offers salvation to. The answer is every single human. The passages quoted in the OP are mostly interpreted by the early Church fathers to mean universal salvation (in terms of availability).

The parable of the lost sheep, and the 99 who were not lost is interpreted understanding humanity as the lost sheep, and the angels as the 99 in no need of repentance. Some could try and argue that the sheep of our Lord is the house of Israel, except the explicit teaching of the Apostles and their activity indicate that humanity is the lost sheep.


So, I believe that Christ died for all people, and offers salvation to all people. However, salvation is not universally obtained, not because of a defect in Christ's offering, nor because of a restriction in Christ's offer, but because of a refusal of acceptance on the part of the individuals who will not be saved.

So, you think Christ died for everyone, even though he clearly said:
"I lay down my life for the sheep", AND "You are NOT of my sheep."

That's amazing.

Well, aside from the abundant Scriptural evidence I provided in the OP, from the words of Christ himself, there is one obvious, glaring problem with what you're saying:

If some choose salvation of their own free will, then they have room to boast.

They can boast that they are smarter, wiser, more righteous, more spiritual, etc. because they chose Christ, and others didn't.

That is completely self-righteous.

Well, I can assure you, anyone who boasts that they chose Christ of their own free will is utterly lost and under God's wrath.

If God ever does save them, he will first strip away that self-righteous presumption, and show them that salvation is completely by grace.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

So, you think Christ died for everyone, even though he clearly said: "I lay down my life for the sheep", AND "You are NOT of my sheep."

Well, aside from the abundant Scriptural evidence I provided in the OP, from the words of Christ himself, there is one obvious, glaring problem with what you're saying:

If some choose salvation of their own free will, then they have room to boast.

They can boast that they are smarter, wiser, more righteous, more spiritual, etc. because they chose Christ, and others didn't.

That is completely self-righteous.

Well, I can assure you, anyone who boasts that they chose Christ of their own free will is utterly lost and under God's wrath.

If God ever does save them, he will first strip away that self-righteous presumption, and show them that salvation is completely by grace.

I agree that salvation is entirely by grace. Even our acceptance of grace is moved by grace.

However, are you free to reject your salvation? If so, then you are free to keep it; and thus free in accepting it and cultivating it.

The grace of God works with and in human nature. It would seem odd that His expression of love for a soul should obliterate the freedom of that soul. Indeed, grace makes a soul more free, for without grace one cannot choose salvation. So, if one must boast, one's boast should be in Christ, as St Paul says.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree that salvation is entirely by grace. Even our acceptance of grace is moved by grace.

However, are you free to reject your salvation? If so, then you are free to keep it; and thus free in accepting it and cultivating it.

The grace of God works with and in human nature. It would seem odd that His expression of love for a soul should obliterate the freedom of that soul. Indeed, grace makes a soul more free, for without grace one cannot choose salvation. So, if one must boast, one's boast should be in Christ, as St Paul says.

Well, you obviously don't understand what grace is, but let's just deal with the first part then.

How do you still assert that Christ died for everyone, when he clearly said:

"I lay down my life for THE SHEEP," AND "YOU are NOT of MY SHEEP." ?

Please answer that question.