Dating and intuition for INFJs | INFJ Forum

Dating and intuition for INFJs

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Tamagochi, Jun 2, 2009.

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  1. Tamagochi

    Tamagochi Sushi Destroyer
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    After reading other people experiences here I thought a bit more on why a lot of INFJs are so bad at dating when we are called people fixers and mind readers by other types. How is it that we can easily spot little inconsistencies in relationships of others and predict the outcome, but we fail to apply it to ourselves? Why are we overwhelmed by feelings of insecurity and estrangement when interacting in a potentially romantic situation? Is it in the way we think?

    These observations come from one my own personal experience, so they would not necessary apply to other people here. Things like gender, age, childhood experience can influence the outcome quite significantly. Maybe you're a good INFJ lover - in that case I would like to hear and learn from you.

    My primary tool of operation is the famous introverted intuition. That means that I am constantly intaking data from my sensory experiences and compare it to a set of patterns that I built up earlier. When there is a match I "get" a glimpse of intuition, because I came to it in a nonlinear fashion. To people that prefer other processes it can seem like magic or clairvoyance, but it's really none of the sort. I am simply good at it - I am not even aware when doing it most of the time and I do not know which of the patterns matched exactly.

    But that also means, that if I do not have a positive and reassuring pattern then this ability becomes useless. As observed by other types I only think that I know how other people feel based on my intuition when in reality I do not know. Sometimes I can be completely misguided about it and not suspect a thing.

    Say for example if I never had a satisfying romantic experience before and I stumble upon a girl who is attractive to me. My eyes submit this information to the brain which searches for a pattern and finds none. Or worse, finds a negative association (if I was rejected before in a similar situation). And that's it - suddenly I feel like taken out of water completely puzzled on what to do next. The only solution is to activate secondary processes - like Ne and Fe which I am not very good at. In fact I have been through a lot of situations where my internal intuition would detect something negative about a particular situation (which I am not even consciously aware) and I would become paralyzed, unable to come with anything sensible on the spot other than an internal desire to retreat. Ni overrules Ne and I cannot think of any creative solution. Only when I am comfortable and relaxed (internal intuition tells that everything is OK) I would come with some really good ideas on what to do.

    What are your experiences, do they relate? Do you know any good strategies to avoid Ni sabotage in romantic situations?
     
  2. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
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    I've been thinking about this very problem not just romantically but on a whole.

    I had some issues in my childhood. An ESFJ mom (very hard for an INFJ child) and a father who wasn't really there.

    I'm starting to think my childhood screwed me. As INFJ it recked my sense of self (my father was bad according to my mom) and my introversion and natural self where bad. Not to mention being Highly sensitive person HSP (I would argue many of us are). And being pushed to be extroverted or simply pushed because my mom thought by pushing me in the way I didn't want to go it would some how help me. Or the idea sense other kids are doing it I should do it too. So ya I've got issue with myself and my parents.

    So I hold these unnecessary negativity ideas to myself. So I seem unable to get past these and just be happy with myself. Which i feel is why I can't be happy and find a relationship. Erik Erikson talks about the need for identity before intimacy in his stages of development and I feel that sense my identity became poorly formed (I feel unsure or bad about who I am) I can't accept intimacy easily or think that I can't have it.

    So I know I didn't answer you question but this topic hits home with me, so ya anyone who has any tips please speak up.
     
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    #2 Blind Bandit, Jun 2, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  3. TheBlondest

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    Great use of Erikson—I just read some of his stuff for a Psychology class. Back to the original question—I have experienced this. Usually it is with an ENTP and I actually do know what is going on internally but they don't. But in time I'm usually right.
    I think that one way to circumvent this is to trust your intuition or add in more factual information when you use your intuition. I know what it is like to feel trapped or to become immobilized. I think because our intuition serves us so well, so often that when we're not readily getting our cheat sheet we can't think on the fly.
    This is where facts and strategy come in handy. I've gone through two emotional turnovers in my life; ice water in my veins to hot sauce in my veins to ice water in my veins. I have conditioned myself to react rationally to emotional or strange situations.
    I still use my intuition, but as I said before, facts become a close second. Facts can work as a pattern, too. I still prefer to use just intuition, because it is fun to appear supernatural and let's face it—in my opinion—we like to be right. :)
     
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    #3 TheBlondest, Jun 2, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  4. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    I only have one but I wouldn't advise using it.

    Awhile ago I created a thread where I asked people how to fall in love. The answer I received was to "let go of all expectations". I put this in practice with an individual whom I found somewhat attractive and within days I had formed an infatuation for that person. It took weeks for me to escape from it because I became completely blind to this person's obvious faults.

    The way I see it, "letting go of all expectations" is more or less the same as throwing Ni into reverse. Normally, Ni is about forming expectations so you can have a sense of control and this occurs via pattern recognition. By contrast, this strategy is about ceding all control so you don't form any expectations. The result is a different kind of Ni. It is actually rather terrifying. All that intensity that is usually focused towards forming expectations becomes focused through Fe on giving up control to that person. Eventually you no longer care about the outcome, you just want to be with that person because you have, in a manner of speaking, given yourself over to them. It is just as messed up and crazy as it sounds.

    The result for me? Not much later I created another thread in which I asked people how to fall out of love.
     
    #4 Satya, Jun 2, 2009
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  5. Eniko

    Eniko May snark if provoked
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    The answer to this is simple: Ni doesn't function properly when we cloud it by introducing our own emotional bias. You start projecting what you want to see on the other person, and you start projecting what you fear on yourself. Or heck, the other way around! Ni only works properly in circumstances where you have no - or little - personal bias.

    What to do then? Think of it as a math problem:

    (X + 32) * 5 = 200

    First we'll apply Ni to it, the math problem resolves like so:

    X = 8

    What? How the heck did we get there? We just skipped all the steps! Sure, we might feel like 8 is the correct answer and 9 out of 10 times it may even be true, but why blindly trust your Ni when we've been given such great tools to reverse engineer the rest of the problem? We've already got the answer to the problem and we have Ti:

    (X + 32) * 5 = 200
    X = 8
    (8 + 32) * 5 = 200
    40 * 5 = 200
    40 = 200 / 5
    40 = 40

    Wahey! Ni gave us the answer and all we had to do was plug the answer into Ti, go with it step by step analyzing the rest of the problem (something we're not naturally inclined to do, this is a cultivated ability IMHO) and hey presto, we've done a reality check.

    Reality checking your Ni is so very, very important if you ask me. You take what your Ni tells you and apply Ti and maybe some other faculties to fact check it. Get people you know and trust who are unbiased to reality check your conclusions (go through them step by step, don't skip to the end!) as well. Only then can you trust your Ni when it's possible it's been compromised by your own emotions.

    If in the above problem our Ni had been way off because it'd been compromised and came up with X = 3 you'd get:

    (X + 32) * 5 = 200
    X = 3
    (3 + 32) * 5 = 200
    35 * 5 = 200
    35 = 200 / 5
    35 = 40

    WRONG! Of course, human interactions and emotions aren't as clear cut as mathematics but to an INFJ it gets pretty close. I've been using this method for a very long time and very rarely have I been wrong after analyzing and reality checking my intuition rigorously.

    Ni gives you quick answers and it's tempting (especially because of our J) to frame those quick answers as the proper truth and rely on it too much. This is a mistake, use Ti to see if the answer you've arrived at is actually true. Do a reality check.
     
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    #5 Eniko, Jun 2, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
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  6. slant

    slant Ruboobie

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    Oh by the way, thanks for mentioning math Eniko.
    I think I'll go stab myself in the arm with a fork now.
     
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  7. Eniko

    Eniko May snark if provoked
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    You're totally welcome, slant! :D
     
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  8. slant

    slant Ruboobie

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    I get the idea that you may actually favor torturing me, in which case, I shudder at what future IMs I may be bombarded with.

    50 + x = 120
    50 + x - 50 = 120 - 50
    0 + x = 70
    x = 70


    Ohhh the agony.
     
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  9. rainrise

    rainrise Community Member

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    hahahahaha
     
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  10. darkstar

    darkstar Community Member

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    Tamagotchi nail on the head.

    Now that you have discovered why we do these things, any way to fix us?

    I was just thinking about work too, I just got a new job and I kind of feel useless. That is, until I put data in my "table" in my head where I can draw from.

    I kind of feel like the borg, excellent at solving a problem I have a reference to, but not so great at something I've never seen.
     
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  11. Final

    Final Regular Poster

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    How can you be good at something you don't know?
     
  12. Neon90424

    Neon90424 Regular Poster

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    Ive had a good relationship for 2 years and a half now...But I must say finding someone is as hard as it can get
     
  13. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    That's easy. I'm an expert at things I've never seen or heard of.
     
  14. Neon90424

    Neon90424 Regular Poster

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    Thats what she said
     
  15. blueflame

    blueflame Regular Poster

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    Satya Satya Satya, I just heard the sound of the sky opening up. The answer to a question I've been inquiring about for weeks was just given to me by you by accident. Thanks
     
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  16. Faye

    Faye ^_^
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    Basically, you can't assume the other person does not like you unless they explicitly tell you that they are not interested.
     
  17. Eniko

    Eniko May snark if provoked
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    And you can't assume they do like you just because they pay attention to you.
     
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  18. mattysly

    mattysly Newbie

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    NIce theory Tamagochi. Glad to have an explanation that makes sense. I was interested in what you had to say about romantic situations. I have not had any positive experiences romantically and as such I do not have a frame of reference for my Ni to trust. I mean I have had a number of friends because of the Fe but that Fe is overshadowed by my Ni when romance is involved (at least thats my theory).

    Added to that, I have such high idealistic expectations of what a romantic relationship "should" be and as such I can focus on that ideal. This leads to my own feelings of doubt and that I won't match up to that person. (Kinda messed up I know!).

    For what you were saying about Intuition and ourselves, I believe that the reason why our Intuition doesn't work for ourselves is because we have no perspective and no objectivity, we are caught in our own cloud of emotions and desires including that we are meant to be in certain relationships, and this is where us INFJs are brought undone.

    I'm not sure if that made any sense but it feels good to discuss it lol.
     
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