Connection between nurture and crime? | INFJ Forum

Connection between nurture and crime?

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by The Jester, Oct 19, 2009.

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  1. The Jester

    Well, these two theories are based on research (Read about them in the Zimbardo psychology book):

    - Boys are more easily and often punished than girls.
    - Punishments can lead to deviant behavior of the person who's punished. (This is most of the time because they don't punish their child 'correctly'.)

    Could it be that because we raise boys different than girls they commit more crimes?
    Is there a positive correlation between being punished incorrectly during your childhood and crimes you commit at a later age?
     
  2. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    I don't know if there is a strong corralation between how boys are raised differently then girls that leads to more crime. I think there is a slight relation, but I do not believe it to be strong.

    I also know out of personal experience that harsh or improper punishment leads to defiant behavior. My dad pushished me harshly much more so then my mom, and did so in a much more unfair manner (my parents have been divorced since I was 4). I would avoid my dad, distrust him, and go behind his back because he was too harsh and unfair as compared to my mom (whom I completely trusted, and still do).
     
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  3. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I was always less believed than my sister, and punished for things she did when they didn't believe me.

    I became a lot more angry and violent as a result of this.
     
  4. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    Men commit more crimes because men are more aggressive and loaded with violence producing chemicals, its sort of how we evolved. And from what I have seen the guys who went out and committed crimes were not the ones who had father who punished them, it was usually the ones who didn't have a father to punish them who committed crimes. Although I have known men who became violent and abusive themselves to their families and they were beaten severely by their father and mother as a child.
     
  5. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Not true at all.

    Men are accused of, and sentenced for more crimes than women.
     
  6. Tamagochi

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    Men and women not only have different chemicals running in their bodies but also different mental motivation for crime in terms of danger/pay-off involved. And the latter is currently considered the major contributing factor for difference between genders as far as I know. Childhood experiences also matter but there are a lot different reactions to the same conditions by individuals so it's hard to draw a definite conclusion.

    One common contributing factor towards tendency for crime as Billy noted is absence of father figure for boys.
     
    #6 Tamagochi, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  7. Billy

    Billy Contents Under Pressure
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    and commit. pretending this is not true is absurd. Men are dangerous aggressive animals.
     
  8. Lucifer

    Lucifer Registered User #666

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    What research I would like to see the parameters they used to determine that.

    Intuitively that seems correct. It is sort of sad actually. If I weren't a white woman I'd be in jail by now I think. But again how does one determine whether boys are more punished then girls?

    Well we definitely raise boys different then girls. But does that lead to more crimes committed it would be difficult to say for sure because we don't grow up in a vacuum.

    Well I think that there is a correlation to not having your needs met as a child and deviant behavior as an adult. If you need to be punished in a sort of way to have it be effective and that doesn't happen, your needs aren't being met are they. Which could lead to deviant behavior later in life.
     
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  9. OP
    Shai Gar

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    Women commit just as many crimes.

    Assault isn't the only crime.
     
  10. Billy

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    Gotta call bs for my personal experiences only, you don't find women causing violent crime nearly as often as men.
     
  11. Lucifer

    Lucifer Registered User #666

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    How do you define crime?
     
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  12. Top cat

    Top cat Permanent Fixture

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    I think bad behaviour is equal in both men and women


    In some reports on bullying
    girls attack indirectly, psychologically (ex gossip, exclusion of the person in group activities)
    while boys will go directly (ex beat the person up etc)

    This is what Shai Gar must have meant
    Of course, no one's really heard of girls being sent to jail for gossip
    but yes for boys who have punched someone in the face

    I think maybe I'd rather be punched. lol
    at least you know the person will be taken away
     
  13. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I said they do?


    That which breaks the law.

    Precisely. But gossip is just the smallest side of it.

    Me too.
     
  14. enfp can be shy

    enfp can be shy people vs the bad people?
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    No doubt about that. I'm thinking more often lately about how ridiculous is the whole set of behavioral tendencies that modern society expects from its members. This nonsense includes the gender roles - which, both, are totally irrational. There's absolutely no need for neither of the two typical gender roles (nor for their reversal, which is even more absurd). The whole farce is so stupid.

    I'm sure about that too, and I believe I've seen such studies made, but in any case this requires some data gathering to be concluded strictly. Whereas your first question I think can be answered without additional testing.

    Note, for example:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome
    The guys with extra Y are not more aggressive (as was considered some years ago), nor do they have higher testosterone levels. So the X/Y chromosomes are hardly the main reason for behavioral differences.
     
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  15. Lucifer

    Lucifer Registered User #666

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    I am pretty sure that the research referred to felonies, the most common felony committed by women in the US is drug posession which isn't always a felony depending a context.

    Plus if women really commit more crimes then men how do you explain that most of the prison population is male.

    http://crime.about.com/b/a/124509.htm
     
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  16. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    I already explained that they're not arrested or even suspected as much.

    But Felony isn't the only crime.
     
  17. OP
    The Jester

    The research has been done by Hyman in 1996. (I think his first name is Irwin.)

    Indeed, this does also count for 'etnic minorities'.
    The problem is that punishments have to be consequent .
    If one person gets away while the other gets punished...

    I think that nurture is very important.
    Of course, we can't be sure that there is a connection, and I think it'd be very hard to do research on this.

    I agree milady.



    It's also important to consider what feminists are saying:
    laws are mainly written by men.
    During our last decades there have been a lot of changes to it of course,
    but I think it's important to know that the crimes committed by mainly men are easier punishable than others.

    I don't mean that a certain crime is only committed by men,
    but there are some crimes that are committed more often by men
    and some that are committed more often by women.
    I THINK that armed robbery is commited more often by men,
    and stealing in shops by women. (I'm of course not sure about this, but I thought I heard this during class.)

    About the agressive behaviour:
    Society expects on one hand for the male to be the protector.
    Come on, we can't deny this, our minds have been filled with that propaganda since we were young children watching to Disney cartoons.
    I think that society expects, us men, to be protective towards women and about their (own) pride.

    But on the other hand, there are groups saying men and women are equal. So why does there need to be 'protecting'?

    Note: I'm not saying that women aren't equal to men, I think it's just hypocrite.

    Tl;dr: I think it's easy to bash on men and call them agressive, but there are so many factors that have influenced us.
    They always taught us that men need to be alpha-males, but at the same time society says that we shouldn't be, because it puts women in an unequal position.
     
  18. gloomy-optimist

    gloomy-optimist Used to live here

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    This is a much more complicated subject than what you guys are showing it to be. Serious crimes aren't just a manner of female versus male; they involve complicated intricacies in childhood and environment, and often in mental and emotional state. Abuse in childhood often dramatically increases the number of crimes committed by anyone, but boys tend to react more aggressively later in life than girls. This is not a rule, but a trend, and that does not necessarily cover all crimes; in both instances, crime rates do increase. They tend to commit different types of crimes, though.

    Other non-violent crimes, such as fraud and work/political crimes, are done to reach a goal; in our society, men are more pushed to be successful in higher-position careers, such as in management and whatnot. The higher percentage of men in big business reflects in the higher number of crimes committed by men for the means of excelling in these positions.

    Women have been more accused and sentenced to crimes in later years. That's probably because of the increasing social equality of men and women -- traditionally, men were more likely to commit crimes because it was more accepted for them to be "rowdy," and they often had more reason for committing these crimes because of their more dominant position in society. Also, whether or not anyone likes to admit it, men do have more hormones that create a tendency to more violent behaviors, especially in their young adulthood.

    So yes, because of environmental factors, men are more likely to be sentenced for crimes and are more likely to commit serious crimes. However, I would say that the gap between men and women there will probably lessen as society changes.
     
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    #18 gloomy-optimist, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  19. testing

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    Sigh. Well, I agree that boys and girls are treated differently, and it is unfortunate to say the least that boys may be punished more often. (This seriously upsets me.)

    They also act differently. I really think (and there is science to back this up) that most (not all) boys are statistically more aggressive. Most girls (not all) are better able to sit still, which for some reason is highly valued in schools; plus little boys mature more slowly, their fine motor skills take longer to develop, and generally speaking they are less motivated by things like cooperation and sharing. This can cause them all sorts of problems, probably gets them punished more often, and it makes me so sad to witness.

    These are gross generalizations, but I think there is some truth to them, and I think that's why some boys get punished more often than girls.

    This hits so close to home: I have a 5-year old who is obsessed with weaponry, insists on being called "Sir Evan" and informs me at great length, with drawings and diagrams and lengthy monologues, why I need to do whatever he wants. And he can be really aggressive, especially toward his little brother, who is beginning to be pretty well able to defend himself.

    We don't punish harshly, I don't think, but we do try to get them to be less aggressive. I like to imagine what my sons would say to me when they're 26... hopefully it will include "Thanks for not allowing me to bash my brother's head in when he was 2, mom, that would've been really horrible and I'm glad you stopped me."

    In case anyone's wondering we have a peaceful and stable household and my husband and I love our boys to pieces, and yet they are still quite aggressive sometimes.

    But the whole raising kids thing can be really complicated and there is more to it than nurture, obviously, nature plays a pretty strong role.
     
    #19 testing, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  20. OP
    The Jester

    Gloomy, I love your post.
    I can't give you reputation because the system doesn't allow me to :(
     
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