Comfortable sadness...

[Entyqua]

I derailed a thread so I decided to to start at thread based on the derailment...

"I miss the comfort of being sad"

Do we self sabotage our happiness...?
Do we seek out sadness because its easier?
Is happiness a false security?
Are we afraid of being truly happy?

does happiness make us partially ignorant? ignorance is bliss as they say..

 

[sassafras]

does happiness make us partially ignorant? ignorance is bliss as they say..

Does sadness make us more in tune with reality? I think both emotions can lend themselves quite nicely to exaggerating certain elements of a situation.

 

[Entyqua]

Does sadness make us more in tune with reality? I think both emotions can lend themselves quite nicely to exaggerating certain elements of a situation.

hmmm Interesting, I think that when you are not lulled in the false sense of security of happiness, where you relax your guards, and your grounds you lose sight of some things...
Where as when you are down, you have nothing to focus on but the state of things...

Perhaps this is a very black and white observation, but It has been true in my life...

 

[NeverAmI]

Ignorance REALLY helps me enjoy life. I was very happy when I would drink and avoid thinking. However, it makes things harder to deal with outside of your ignorance. Eventually it spirals into depression just because it is not sustainable.

Then again, I am a bit biased about life right now probably due to stress.

 

[TinyBubbles]

I derailed a thread so I decided to to start at thread based on the derailment...

"I miss the comfort of being sad"

Do we self sabotage our happiness...?
Do we seek out sadness because its easier?
Is happiness a false security?
Are we afraid of being truly happy?

i think we sometimes do, happiness never lasts does it, on some level perhaps we seek out the genuine security of sadness. are we afraid of being truly happy? maybe, how many times in your life can you think of that you've been extremely happy? probably very few. contentment is common, sadness not infrequent, but happiness, real happiness, the kind that you can't wait to get up everyday and embrace life with, that kind of feeling is rare - probably thats what makes it precious, but maybe also for the same reason we reject it -its out of the range of our normal experience

 

[NeverAmI]

In life, sometimes I have been attracted to sad things. However, I don't think that I subconsciously look to undermine myself, okay maybe I do, I don't know! To me, things that are inconvenient or tragic offer a new perspective on life. Things that are difficult: suffering, oppression, despair are all things most of us have tasted potently in our life. I personally cannot help but be a little curious to see how others deal with such things. These challenge the scope of how we live, they urge one to take a look at the larger picture of life and ot re-analyze what priorities truly have weight.

As for expecting sadness, or setting yourself up to experience it, that might mean you still feel that you deserve something negative due to some past inference, typically a subconscious repetitively learned trait that you are worthless as prescribed by influencial others in your life.

 

[randomsomeone]

Does sadness make us more in tune with reality?

For me this is very true. Part of my life (and life in general if you watch the news) is very sad. Part is happy, too. For me it is both....I can access one or the other, or generally both at the same time. One keeps me sober and awake, the other keeps me forward looking, positive, and open. I will say this, having both at work makes it instantly possible to show empathy for others as both sadness and joy are virtually ever-present. I might even say being able to hold both lends a certain wisdom.

 

[Entyqua]

In life, sometimes I have been attracted to sad things. However, I don't think that I subconsciously look to undermine myself, okay maybe I do, I don't know! To me, things that are inconvenient or tragic offer a new perspective on life. Things that are difficult: suffering, oppression, despair are all things most of us have tasted potently in our life. I personally cannot help but be a little curious to see how others deal with such things. These challenge the scope of how we live, they urge one to take a look at the larger picture of life and ot re-analyze what priorities truly have weight.

As for expecting sadness, or setting yourself up to experience it, that might mean you still feel that you deserve something negative due to some past inference, typically a subconscious repetitively learned trait that you are worthless as prescribed by influencial others in your life.

that part there in bold...damn hit the nail on the head with that one...

I do remember being truly happy...certain points in my life...but something has always happened to take it away...

And drawing on the bolded...if this is true, and for me I am sure it is, How does one begin to deprogram themselves?
How does one take a lifetime of abuse, and deprogram all they ever knew about themselves? (or were ever told)

It seems that a great deal of us, regardless of the type of child hood we had, are this way...So if it is just in us to feel worthless, How do you combat that?
Then for those who were abused, How do you combat something that on top of your natural aversion to yourself?

 

[sassafras]

hmmm Interesting, I think that when you are not lulled in the false sense of security of happiness, where you relax your guards, and your grounds you lose sight of some things...
Where as when you are down, you have nothing to focus on but the state of things...

Perhaps this is a very black and white observation, but It has been true in my life...

The flip side of that argument is that happiness, a positive outlook, allows one to look at the things that are still intact and therefore, focus on the opportunities still available to resolve the problem in the first place. I think a positive outlook might lend itself better to moving forward, rather than remaining stagnate.

Perhaps the "comfort" of sadness is simply an opportunity to stay with the familiar rather than gamble with the whole spectrum of emotions should you move forward in your situation. A classical symptom of anxiety and subconscious avoidance behavior. Having experienced a thick slice of this particular feeling before, it is my opinion that it plays perfectly into the INFJ's need for stability and certainty (protection!)... at a very unhealthy cost.

 

[Morgain]

The flip side of that argument is that happiness, a positive outlook, allows one to look at the things that are still intact and therefore, focus on the opportunities still available to resolve the problem in the first place. I think a positive outlook might lend itself better to moving forward, rather than remaining stagnate.

very much true!

Perhaps the "comfort" of sadness is simply an opportunity to stay with the familiar rather than gamble with the whole spectrum of emotions should you move forward in your situation. A classical symptom of anxiety and subconscious avoidance behavior. Having experienced a thick slice of this particular feeling before, it is my opinion that it plays perfectly into the INFJ's need for stability and certainty (protection!)... at a very unhealthy cost.

yes and the oposite is also true. Some people stay with the happy feelings to not to have to feel sadness. So they keep themselves busy with creating happy feelings all the time.

I think what randomsomeone said is very valuable. To keep the two sides of the emotional spectrum ad hand so you can switch easily from one to the other and experience all emotions almost at the same time as a whole!

With me it is easier to switch to the sad side than to the happy side. Whenever I'm happy there will always be some detail in the matter that makes me sad again. It is like I can only remember the sad parts of an event and not the good ones. I can give you a 1000 sad moments in my live and only a handfull good ones while my live hasn't been that bad at all. i always feel like I shouldn't be happy, I can't be happy. It feels like it is a trap to be happy because sooner or later someone would come and do something or say something negative about me and that will pick my balloon. I wonder why I feel that way ...

 

[Entyqua]

The flip side of that argument is that happiness, a positive outlook, allows one to look at the things that are still intact and therefore, focus on the opportunities still available to resolve the problem in the first place. I think a positive outlook might lend itself better to moving forward, rather than remaining stagnate.

I agree with this and see it...I understand it, but fail to remain stable in this state of being...

Perhaps the "comfort" of sadness is simply an opportunity to stay with the familiar rather than gamble with the whole spectrum of emotions should you move forward in your situation. A classical symptom of anxiety and subconscious avoidance behavior. Having experienced a thick slice of this particular feeling before, it is my opinion that it plays perfectly into the INFJ's need for stability and certainty (protection!)... at a very unhealthy cost.

This is perfectly stated...I will be the first to admit that I avoid my demons...There are too many...slowly though, through my continued happiness at present more and more are coming through the barriers in my mind...As I am at a healthier place in my life, memories once repressed are breaking through...I understand why this works, but I still wish i had the sadness to protect me from it...if that makes sense.
I do fall back into days weeks, or months of sadness...I guess I am afraid, and anxious to return?

very much true!



yes and the oposite is also true. Some people stay with the happy feelings to not to have to feel sadness. So they keep themselves busy with creating happy feelings all the time.

I think what randomsomeone said is very valuable. To keep the two sides of the emotional spectrum ad hand so you can switch easily from one to the other and experience all emotions almost at the same time as a whole!

With me it is easier to switch to the sad side than to the happy side. Whenever I'm happy there will always be some detail in the matter that makes me sad again. It is like I can only remember the sad parts of an event and not the good ones. I can give you a 1000 sad moments in my live and only a handfull good ones while my live hasn't been that bad at all. i always feel like I shouldn't be happy, I can't be happy. It feels like it is a trap to be happy because sooner or later someone would come and do something or say something negative about me and that will pick my balloon. I wonder why I feel that way ...

I relate to this in bold very much...I couldn't have said it better.

and I agree with the rest...Its true we must find a balance, and I think I am on the precipice of this realization...but the lulling comfort of the sadness I have known my entire life beckons me...I know what will happen if I go back...

 

[Morgain]

Its true we must find a balance, and I think I am on the precipice of this realization...but the lulling comfort of the sadness I have known my entire life beckons me...I know what will happen if I go back...

I'm on the same path myself, breaking through the sadness! Thanks for this tread. I knew I was cleaning up my mess but this tread makes it more clear to me why I still have those moments of sadness, a lulling comfort indeed!

Whenever I feel sadness or exhaustment now, it means I'm pushing away a thought/memory/habbit that is pulling me down. I should use it as a barometer and heal that part of me. But it is hard to do when you feel sad/lonely/inferior

 

[Entyqua]

I'm on the same path myself, breaking through the sadness! Thanks for this tread. I knew I was cleaning up my mess but this tread makes it more clear to me why I still have those moments of sadness, a lulling comfort indeed!

Whenever I feel sadness or exhaustment now, it means I'm pushing away a thought/memory/habbit that is pulling me down. I should use it as a barometer and heal that part of me. But it is hard to do when you feel sad/lonely/inferior

Exactly!!! Well, since we are in the same boat, you can always turn to me for support if you need!

 

[sassafras]

very much true!



yes and the oposite is also true. Some people stay with the happy feelings to not to have to feel sadness. So they keep themselves busy with creating happy feelings all the time.

I think what randomsomeone said is very valuable. To keep the two sides of the emotional spectrum ad hand so you can switch easily from one to the other and experience all emotions almost at the same time as a whole!

With me it is easier to switch to the sad side than to the happy side. Whenever I'm happy there will always be some detail in the matter that makes me sad again. It is like I can only remember the sad parts of an event and not the good ones. I can give you a 1000 sad moments in my live and only a handfull good ones while my live hasn't been that bad at all. i always feel like I shouldn't be happy, I can't be happy. It feels like it is a trap to be happy because sooner or later someone would come and do something or say something negative about me and that will pick my balloon. I wonder why I feel that way ...

Very interesting point and I share your view, although I describe it to myself differently. Personally, when I think happiness, I don't think of someone permanently blissed out or tweaking on their own dopamine. I think of someone who is at ease with themselves and who doesn't put expectations on their feelings; he or she merely experiences them.

As someone who has crawled out of the pit of depression, I have to say, the one thing that I noticed about myself in this state of mind was that it didn't mean that I was immune to other feelings besides enduring sadness. I did experience moments of joy, moments of fear, moments of bravery... basically, everything that a non-depressed person experiences. But these emotions had a stunted, mechanical quality to them. Like trying to start up a car in the winter time and having it stall a couple of times before you got the engine running.

The core of that feeling was that I would over-think my emotions. I would put a label on them and automatically compare them to what a 'normal' person would experience in this situation. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly here, but the only way I can describe it is that everything I did, even things that were positive, was tinted by this shade of negativity and rigid expectations. Once I began to sort of step back from these judgments and just let these emotions come to me, I felt lighter... and happier overall, even though I might have been mad or sad or fearful at the time. I think this is the core difference between owning your emotions and being your emotions.

 

[Questingpoet]

Well don't go back B, go forward. You can do it. We all want to see more of that dynamic, wonderful person inside of you. This is a very interesting thread, and one everyone has thoughts on I'm sure. I don't think being a melancholy or sad person has as much to do with environment as we may often think. I had a near ideal upbringing and I still experience many times of near depression and intense sadness.

Perhaps some of this ties into being very empathic. Not to downplay peoples difficult lives and upbringing, but we are all predisposed to feel sadness in a certain way I think. In many ways it's human nature to want to experience it--at least that's how I feel about it. Look on any poetry site and the "Sadness" category is always one of the top two.

I've also noticed (as Enty has commented before) that my creative juices really flow when I'm sad. I don't know that this says I prefer this state; I thinks it's saying I want to better understand this state and thus relieve it. But I am definitely in a much more analytical mode when sad, much more questioning, than when I am happy. During the periods of happiness, I just want to be (to experience it). Also, during happiness I record and store emotion, during sadness I analyse it. I really want to understand it. I think when angry I experience emotion at it most raw form, this is the state it can really get away if you let it. But we all need some sadness I think to help balance things out. But we can't live in it; we can, and must, learn from it.

 

[Entyqua]

Yes TDHT I can see what you are saying...it makes perfect sense...I can own my emotions, but as I am still standing at the door of this great changes, I can sstill be owned by them as well...

Imagine you are standing at a door, trying to get free...to leave, but a million hands are tugging you back inside as if you were running towards the four horsemen of the apocalypse...You will falter...and you will fall back...you have to then start moving back through this burdensome memories and climb your way back to the door...I can see the light from this door, and when it touches my face an inexplicable calm washes over me...I am close...but farther I get out the door the more insistent the tugging becomes...The sadness wishes to keep me forever, but the happiness has touched me...its light beckons me...if only I could touch it...

 

[Entyqua]

Well don't go back B, go forward. You can do it. We all want to see more of that dynamic, wonderful person inside of you. This is a very interesting thread, and one everyone has thoughts on I'm sure. I don't think being a melancholy or sad person has as much to do with environment as we may often think. I had a near ideal upbringing and I still experience many times of near depression and intense sadness.

Perhaps some of this ties into being very empathic. Not to downplay peoples difficult lives and upbringing, but we are all predisposed to feel sadness in a certain way I think. In many ways it's human nature to want to experience it--at least that's how I feel about it. Look on any poetry site and the "Sadness" category is always one of the top two.

I've also noticed (as Enty has commented before) that my creative juices really flow when I'm sad. I don't know that this says I prefer this state; I thinks it's saying I want to better understand this state and thus relieve it. But I am definitely in a much more analytical mode when sad, much more questioning, than when I am happy. During the periods of happiness, I just want to be (to experience it). Also, during happiness I record and store emotion, during sadness I analyse it. I really want to understand it. I think when angry I experience emotion at it most raw form, this is the state it can really get away if you let it. But we all need some sadness I think to help balance things out. But we can't live in it; we can, and must, learn from it.

very well put, kinda where I was going with happiness being a sort of ignorance...because its so rare for us, we suck it up...bleed it dry till its gone...

So then...Do we thirst for this happiness, do we deplete our happy reserves too quickly?

 

[sassafras]

Yes TDHT I can see what you are saying...it makes perfect sense...I can own my emotions, but as I am still standing at the door of this great changes, I can sstill be owned by them as well...

Imagine you are standing at a door, trying to get free...to leave, but a million hands are tugging you back inside as if you were running towards the four horsemen of the apocalypse...You will falter...and you will fall back...you have to then start moving back through this burdensome memories and climb your way back to the door...I can see the light from this door, and when it touches my face an inexplicable calm washes over me...I am close...but farther I get out the door the more insistent the tugging becomes...The sadness wishes to keep me forever, but the happiness has touched me...its light beckons me...if only I could touch it...

The only problem with this otherwise potent and beautifully written analogy is that you're still painting sadness and happiness as outside influences vying over control over your person. It isn't so much sadness that must be escaped--indeed, it would be foolish to promise that you would never experience it again-- but rather, its the part of yourself that favours sadness that must be confronted and acknowledged. It's important to realize that this internal battle is not separate entities, but rather, made up of the individual whole. You are that darkness as much as you are the light. And you can't really run from or toward yourself, can you? It's when you accept that you are really outside of this battle, as much as you are inside of it, do you gain the freedom that you desire.

I do not mean anything mean spirited by putting this way, of course; I'm only offering up this viewpoint as it might help to get that push out the door

 

[Gaze]

Does sadness make us more in tune with reality? I think both emotions can lend themselves quite nicely to exaggerating certain elements of a situation.

Yes to the first question. And I agree with the second statement as well.

Very interesting point and I share your view, although I describe it to myself differently. Personally, when I think happiness, I don't think of someone permanently blissed out or tweaking on their own dopamine. I think of someone who is at ease with themselves and who doesn't put expectations on their feelings; he or she merely experiences them.

. . .

The core of that feeling was that I would over-think my emotions. I would put a label on them and automatically compare them to what a 'normal' person would experience in this situation. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly here, but the only way I can describe it is that everything I did, even things that were positive, was tinted by this shade of negativity and rigid expectations. Once I began to sort of step back from these judgments and just let these emotions come to me, I felt lighter... and happier overall, even though I might have been mad or sad or fearful at the time. I think this is the core difference between owning your emotions and being your emotions.

Good points.

Yes TDHT I can see what you are saying...it makes perfect sense...I can own my emotions, but as I am still standing at the door of this great changes, I can sstill be owned by them as well...

Yep. Agree.

 

[sassafras]

Yes to the first question. And I agree with the second statement as well.

Please elaborate as to why you think that is.