Cognitive Confusion | INFJ Forum

Cognitive Confusion

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by VH, Nov 30, 2009.

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  1. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    It seems that sometimes people lose track of what the functions actually imply. Let me quote the originator.

    "Sensing tells you that something exists; thinking tells you what it is; feeling tells you whether it is agreeable or not; and intuition tells you whence it comes and where it is going." - C. G. Jung



    All of the cognitive functions are forms of intelligence. Keep this in mind. Sensing and Feeling are just as much forms of intelligence as Intuition and Thinking. Each cognitive function is an index of how we apply intelligence.

    The Perception functions are an index of how we process input, not just how we take it in. Ni, Ne, Si, and even Se are the processes by which all sensory input is cataloged in our minds. These functions are essentially our filing systems, and we use a great deal of intelligence in how we discern and classify our perceptions.

    Si stores information much like a computer, with file folders and accurate records.

    Se absorbs information much like a video camera, in real time and high definition.

    Ne files information like a search engine, with links that link to other links, often involuntarily.

    Ni tethers input by pattern, relative to other patterns.

    The Judging functions are the manner in which we reason. There is a tendency to assume that the Feeling functions do not reason, but instead emote. That's not at all accurate. All of the Judging functions are analytical.

    Ti processes information logically on a micro scale.

    Te analyzes information by how it relates on a macro scale.

    Fi reacts to information qualitatively on an abstract level.

    Fe engages information idealistically on a philosophical level.

    It is these preferences that make up the quality of a person's intelligence, but they are not at all indicative of the quantity of a person's intelligence. There are people with extremely high IQs (140+) from all 16 of the Jungian personality types.

    Please keep this in mind when considering the cognitive functions, personality types, and the implications they bring.

    :md:
     
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    #1 VH, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
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  2. sassafras

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    Hmm. This is very enlightening, VH. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
     
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  3. Raccoon Love

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    Very insightful once again Von Hase, I have always questioned this, and I also seen many T types think they are superior or smarter and typed every person they consider brilliant a T type, this has annoyed me as I always felt all types are capable of all sorts of intelligence and being analytical and the way you put this explains it very clearly..Thank You.
     
  4. flux

    flux Community Member

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    I always thought Ne was my abstract function. It's certainly the one that can make my co-workers say "wtf are you talking about?" That's very interesting, VH.
     
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  5. OP
    VH

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    Actually, that sounds more like Ni, which sees patterns that others don't. Ni statements are prone to causing non-Ni people to wonder how in the world what we just said has any relevance to the subject at hand - because they can't see the pattern like we can.

    Some standard reactions to Ni...

    "What planet do you come from?"
    "Have you heard anything that has been said?"
    "Are you stupid?"
    *blink blink*
    and my personal favorite... when someone catches up with us... "BRILLIANT!"

    Ne, on the other hand is notorious for needing to be reigned back in. Ne users are frequently told to stay on track, but seldom make such large leaps of logic that people can't see where they went. Ne causes tangents, but tangents that generally have a visible, but not always viable segue. This is also why Ne is often funny, because it's a quick jump to the unexpected as opposed to a long jump into the unknown.

    Some standard reactions to Ne...

    "Would you be serious?"
    "Let's get back to reality."
    "Why do you insist on offering these wacky hair brained notions?"
    "BWAHAHAHAHAHA!"
    and my personal favorite... when someone catches us with them... "Holy crap, that just might work!"
     
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    #5 VH, Nov 30, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  6. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    Heh.

    I frequently get, "Where's {Arbygil - insert real name here}" in a sing-songy voice, as if I'm an airhead. My (very) ESFP male friend frequently looks at me and says, "where *are* you?"

    I hate that. :p
     
  7. OP
    VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Always glad to help! :)
     
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  8. Orion

    Orion Strength through understanding
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    The thing I'm struggling to comprehend is how Jung came up with all this. Why is it these functions and not others? Why is it 4 functions and not more? Or less? I guess it's not really a question of the functions themselves but how the theory came to be.
     
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  9. OP
    VH

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    Well, there are eight functions...

    And they were developed like this...

    Cognition is a process of Perception and Judgment.

    Some people are much more in the here and now, while others make leaps of logic as they perceive. Thus Perception was broken into S and N.

    Some people are more emotional and philosophical, while others are more rational and pensive. Thus, Judgment was broken into F and T.

    However, after some study, it was obvious that each of these functions had two sides to them, an internally and an externally focused side. Thus, all of the functions were split into Se, Si, Ne, Ni, Fe, Fi, Te, and Ti.

    It didn't take long to deduce that most people focused on one over the other. And once this was noticed, the pattern of an introverted and extroverted J and P pair became evident, which is the basis for the Jungian archetypes.

    Two things to take into consideration about the theories on cognitive functions...

    1. It took many years of focused observation, study, and research to make all of these steps and leaps of logic that built upon one another. It certainly didn't just pop out of one brainstorming session.

    2. Jung's original personality archetypes only included a dominant and secondary function. All the other functions were added later by other psychologist, such as Beebe. For example, Jung's version of INFJ was simply Ni Fe, because Jung presumed that everyone used all 8 of the functions at varying degrees. The only determining factor in personality via cognitive functions as far as Jung was concerned was which J and P functions does someone inherrently use first. Now that we have tests to isolate function preference, it turns out that Jung was more correct than not. The model that extrapolates types into a string of functions - such as INFJ being Ni > Fe > Ti > Se > Ne > Fi > Te > Si came well after Jung and is only an accepted pattern of 'norms' - by no means a rule. In other words, Jung pioneered these theories, but by no means figured it all out in his time.
     
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  10. alcyone

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    VH..Have you ever considered pulling up all of your posts like this and publishing them?

    At the very least they should all be copied and put together in a sticky with the title 'Jungian Theory for Dummies'
     
  11. arbygil

    arbygil Passing through

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    ^^THIS. Because this actually makes sense, VH. Jungian theory is a *mess* to get through, but not only do you understand it - you can make it make SENSE. We should sticky your stuff as Von Hase's Jungian Jungle Gym or something like that.:mlove2:
     
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  12. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
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    I am thirding that notion. You really should work on publishing some of your theories and ideas.
     
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  13. TrevOrTrevor

    TrevOrTrevor Community Member

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    Wow. It's interesting to know what Jung contributed. Are these all your opinions? They're very clearly put and are easy to understand. Fun to read info!
    :mxmas:
     
  14. Peppermint

    Peppermint Well-known member

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    Interesting take on the functions for sure, but there are some things that don't seem clear enough.

    Why assign 'philosophical' to Fe, and 'abstract' to Fi?
    I'm not going to get all nitpicky about everything 'philosophical' could mean, but in this case I'm guessing it has something to do with Fe values being more 'large scale' and 'universal', communal than Fi.

    I don't necessarily agree with the wording here.All Judging functions are analytical, but Ti is probably the most analytical in a conventional sense, as it's the function most concerned with thorough analysis and logical accuracy and consistency.

    -Working on a micro vs. macro scale.
    True, the introverted and extroverted functions usually differ in that regard, but in the case of Ti and Te specifically, I would call the Ti a system builder, as it constructs elaborate internal logical systems, while Te seems to be more concerned with applying the logical systems on a macro scale. Both functions can construct them, but the difference is that Ti doesn't necessarily need to apply this, in contrast to Te.
    In conclusion I think that macro vs. micro scale is not relevant to the construction of systems themselves, but to the way they are applied, or not applied.
     
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  15. OP
    VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

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    Actually... I was considering this last night... sort of. I'm thinking of writing an entire manual on the subject of personality type and the Jungian theory behind it. Anyone care to help me organize it?
     
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  16. mooseman

    mooseman Local Claviger
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    Yay! :whoo:
     
  17. OP
    VH

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    These are the most distilled descriptions I could come up with. I deliberately used as few words as possible. Those were the best I could come up with.

    Traditionally, it is accepted that Fi is a right brained thought process - hence abstract. Fe is accepted to be a left brained thought process - hence philosophical. Also, Fi and Fe are respectively micro and macro scale.

    Analysis is inductive. Processing is deductive. Te analyzes and induces much more effectively than Ti. Ti processes detailed information and deduces more effectively than Te. Meanwhile, Te doesn't process the inner workings of something as well as Ti, and Ti doesn't associate the relationships of what it ponders as well as Te.

    For example...

    Fi: Throwing this ball up in the air and catching it when it comes back down is fun and makes me happy, because I'm really good at it!

    Ti: That's Newton's Law. Everything that goes up must come down. And so, if you kick the ball up, it must come down. The rate at which it comes down can be measured using the following formula, and barring air resistance, we can determine how much force the ball will hit the ground with if we know how high the ball was when it began falling back down, and how much it weighs.

    Te: I've noticed previously that every time I kick a ball up, it comes back down, so I guess this next time when I kick it up, it will come back down, too. When it comes down, it always bounces in some direction, therefore if it bounces in that direction it will likely break something. I will probably get in trouble if that happens, so I'm not going to throw the ball here.

    Fe: If the ball breaks something that someone cares about, that will make them unhappy, and most importantly, that will make them unhappy with me. I would be less happy about that than throwing the ball is making me happy, so I'm going to throw the ball somewhere that makes everyone happy, including me.
     
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    #17 VH, Dec 3, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  18. Peppermint

    Peppermint Well-known member

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    I see your point for the use of 'analysis' and 'processing' now. Deduction for Ti and induction for Te are actually pretty good comparisons.
     
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  19. Raccoon Love

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    Yes, Von your ideas are to ingenious and should be read and studied!! Don't miss out on the chance lol
     
  20. alcyone

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    What kind of help do you need?
     
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