Button Pressing Robots

[Faye]

Everything you do is a technical endeavor. Think about it. Determine the formula for success and act accordingly. If you are successful, you receive a reward. Big deal.

So we are constantly trying to find happiness through our endeavors, but the methods hardly differ. Whether your stirring soup, casting a fishing rod, riding a bike, or pressing a button on a keyboard, you're still basically a robot, a complicated human robot.

Eventually, your parts will wear out or be destroyed.

What people need to be happy then is a good challenge, a scenario where one cannot determine whether or not they possess the capacity to be successful. If that person is successful, they will satisfactorily receive their possession.

The problem is that with modern society, survival is basically a joke and we occupy ourselves with largely frivolous pursuits. Look how many people's lives are dedicated entirely to entertainment. I'm not suggesting that running naked through the woods being chased by a tiger is better than what we have now, but it certainly would be more motivating.

 

[IndigoSensor]

This is a horribly cynical way of putting it. At least, you are making it out to sound alot more negitive then it inately is. I find the idea of us being "technical and robotic" actually kind of cool. I always try to make analogies to the way the mind works to real world things. For example. I have an image of a "circuitry" for each language that each person speaks. So in essence it is like the mind is the same, but constructed differentley.

 

[Faye]

Yeah, it is pretty negative toned.

Funny thing- 99 views and you're the only one who responded.

I've never been able to get over this existential hurdle.

 

[acd]

I'm with ya, Dragon. Life here is absurd and frivolous. We're largely conditioned to pursue fulfillment through ignorance, competition, and consumption.
At least you are able to realize this, uncomfortable as it may make your stay here--at least you see. That makes you alive, more alive than a majority of people walking around, dead.

Someone I know was telling me about a woman who went and studied an indigenous tribe of people. She had a glass bottle of water with her. The natives were fascinated and demanded she tell them how it was made. She told them by heating sand. The next day, they took her to the beach and demanded she show them how she fashioned the bottle from heated sand. She admitted that she did not know, that she did not make the bottle herself. They laughed at her for being foolish enough to utilize a tool she did not understand.

 

[Orion]

The problem is that with modern society, survival is basically a joke and we occupy ourselves with largely frivolous pursuits. Look how many people's lives are dedicated entirely to entertainment. I'm not suggesting that running naked through the woods being chased by a tiger is better than what we have now, but it certainly would be more motivating.

I actually agree with this. Life WOULD be better.

 

[Quinlan]

The Evolutionary Principle

when a species is removed from the habitat in which it evolved, or that habitat changes significantly within a brief period, the species will develop maladaptive behavior.

 

[acd]

The Evolutionary Principle

Yes. That's what we're talking about.

What do you think?

 

[Faye]

Yes. That's what we're talking about.

What do you think?

Cool. Societal decline theory.

I think the issue is that society is too alienated now and negative reciprocity is too easy. People don't trust each other- with good reason. Almost everyone feels ineffective.

 

[Quinlan]

Yes. That's what we're talking about.

What do you think?

I think a big majority of our problems are caused by applying tribal thinking to complex situations.

 

[acd]

How so?

 

[Faye]

I think a big majority of our problems are caused by applying tribal thinking to complex situations.

Like an "us vs. them" mentality in almost every dispute even when its not applicable? If a "them" doesn't exist, make one up?

 

[acd]

Tribal thinking usually involves collective problem solving as opposed to individualized specialized duties. Can you give examples of problems created by tribal thinking?

 

[Quinlan]

Like an "us vs. them" mentality in almost every dispute even when its not applicable? If a "them" doesn't exist, make one up?

Yes, absolutely! In group and out group mentality.

Tribal thinking usually involves collective problem solving as opposed to individualized specialized duties. Can you give examples of problems created by tribal thinking?

People putting their immediate needs and accumaltion/consumption of resources ahead of the needs of future generations and the planet. We make mountains and mountains of rubbish and waste yet as soon as it is out of sight, out of the immediate context it becomes someone elses problem. Like Dragon said everything becomes an us vs them deal, where both sides are railing against idealistic concepts/symbols, instead of getting together and actually addressing the reality of the situation.

As a part of large nations we become disenfranchised as individuals, we are nobodies, easily replaced we slave away but we (and others) often don't see the direct results of our work. In a tribe everyone can feel useful and make a recognisable contribution. So tribal thinking is appreciating the value of others that contribute to your immediate context, why show compassion to a stranger?

In a city we see so many people in a day our minds are unable to view them all as unique individuals instead we have to use mental shortcuts (stereotypes, generalisations etc.) to get by. In a tribal setting we are afforded the time and opportunity to really understand each member as an individual in their own right.

Things like compassion, empathy and altruism, probably only evolved to be applied to your tribe. When these basic feelings are forced to extend across a whole nation or even the whole species they become stretched, superficial and much more conditional.

Modern civilisation has only been around in a blink of an eye for our species, it's an experiment, and has yet to prove it's sustainability as a way of life.

 

[acd]

I don't think modern civilization is an experiment. I see it as the result of human efforts that are adapting to new knowledge and tools and population sizes. It's a series of small steps leading to disaster.

The adaptation doesn't include foresight. So it's actually maladaptation.

The way things are, it is seemingly impossible to have an intimate connection with other citizens the way members of a tribe or band would. Populations are just too large. With populations of that size come individualism and specialization and competition because though we treat our resources as if they are infinite, deep down we know they are not--so we compete and people are disenfranchised. Along with that people are disenfranchised by elected officials who couldn't possibly represent everyone. Then there's alienation and then anomie. We're a sick society.

I think communism tries to fuse tribal thinking with modern civilization. But history makes it clear that it fails.

Things like compassion, empathy and altruism, probably only evolved to be applied to your tribe. When these basic feelings are forced to extend across a whole nation or even the whole species they become stretched, superficial and much more conditional.

In a way, I can agree. Though I don't think that the concepts remain to be compassion and empathy when they are superficial and conditional. They become something else under the guise of compassion and empathy.

Compassion and empathy in their truest forms are obviously just as vital to modern life. They don't really work with the systems that are in place, though. That's why new systems need to be implemented.

Don't ask me what systems they are, just yet. Though I'm a critic I'm still racking my brain trying to come up with other solutions. Cuz what we've got going on now isn't working.

 

[Quinlan]

I suppose what we need is a system that doesn't deny or surpress tribal thinking (we are stuck with it unless we evolve or genetically engineer it out of us), but embraces it and utilizes it.

 

[Faye]

I suppose what we need is a system that doesn't deny or surpress tribal thinking (we are stuck with it unless we evolve or genetically engineer it out of us), but embraces it and utilizes it.

What would that look like?

 

[Quinlan]

What would that look like?

I dunno, you're the one with Ni, you tell me.

 

[HaHa]

What would that look like?

It would probably entail a total breakdown of the idea of "government" and "country". Land would be loosely defined based on the general area that a family/tribal unit would occupy. (defined as a sort of group of families that came to enjoy each other. Marriages would be encouraged outside of the tribe, but such a situation would not be required as long as it's genetically plausible, ie not banging your cousin. But after marriage, you'd have to belong to one tribe or the other and it would need to be your greater sense of home) Family units would grow. Then some sort of authority would have to give each family unit "tribe" a task for human betterment that they are uniquely suited for. Seems like a plausible futuristic scenario. But I think it would sacrifice the world of possibilities for a deeper feeling of primitive humanity. (primitive in a good way)

 

[slant]

It actually comforts me to think that all we are is essentially just robots, that skin is skin and essentially if it was removed nobody would care what happened to a body without it's beautiful face...even a Brad Pitt would be a nobody.

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside thinking about it.

 

[Naxx]

I disagree, I think the general standards for beauty would just change but the thought of it itself would remain.