Breaking out of Western Christianity's Belief Control

[AJ_]

I understand what Jim Jeffries is saying, although I think it’s counterproductive to call Christians “dumb-c###s”. I think if I were brought up without the “atonement” teaching, I would probably still be Christian. The whole atonement thing is just ridiculous to me — the message of never ending love along with “another animal or person needs to die for someone’s ‘sins’” is not something that resonates in a loving way at all.

Another curious thing that is taught is that “God has enemies”. I feel that “satan” that is referred to in the Bible is the personification of the ego that seeks to dominate, be the victor, be in total power over everything. An outside satan is an invention by the early Roman church because it creates permanent duality.

You can’t defeat or vanquish this “satan” or ego — you just begin to love and accept the lower nature in yourself. Here's Jung on projecting unfavorable qualities within us (the shadow) onto others (enemies)

[video=youtube;zMHqqXYaB8g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMHqqXYaB8g[/video]

[video=youtube;FvgmyaSTosg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvgmyaSTosg[/video]

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=5807]AJ_[/MENTION]

He's a comedian. Being productive is not his job, and being offensive is part of his act.

He does have a point about babies though. People had a problem with the question of what happens to unbaptized dead babies for the longest time. It was thought that if you weren't baptized you go to hell, no exceptions, not even for babies. People weren't entirely cool with that idea so some people were like "Hey, listen. Maybe babies don't go to hell. They can't go to heaven though because that'd be a contradiction, but maybe they go somewhere in between?" So they came up with the idea of Limbo.

 

[Kgal]

[video=youtube;tOgW8y2jakw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tOgW8y2jakw[/video]

This guy cracked me! I laughed so hard.... hahahahahaha.... I think because I was raised Catholic and became an atheist when I left the church at age 16 - I had a deep appreciation for what he was wisely and satirically saying.

omg I nearly died when talked about all those dead babies piling up in heaven cause they weren't baptized before they died. bahahahahahaha.... I could just see him standing there during the godfather ceremony thinking yep yep yep...I'm definitely going to influence this child. Sure Father!
It reminded me of what I promised to the priest in my first marriage and only wedding in church. It's easy to lie to them when you don't believe in them. Hahahahaha.

I'm going to download and listen again with my ex. He'll love it too.

 

[just me]

Atonement in the OT was a shadow of the things to come, as I said before. The daily sacrifice was taken away. Jesus died one time for all sin. Read Leviticus and then read Hebrews. Atonement was replaced from daily or yearly to once, so it was not done away with.

Neither was the moral law done away with.

Making fun of this does not sit well for one that claims great spirituality.

"The last enemy that shall be defeated is death." Oh ones of little faith. Ye strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

 

[Kgal]

Atonement in the OT was a shadow of the things to come, as I said before. The daily sacrifice was taken away. Jesus died one time for all sin. Read Leviticus and then read Hebrews. Atonement was replaced from daily or yearly to once, so it was not done away with.

Neither was the moral law done away with.

Making fun of this does not sit well for one that claims great spirituality.

"The last enemy that shall be defeated is death." Oh ones of little faith. Ye strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

Why do you say that?

The last enemy that shall be defeated is death? There is no such thing as death. You know we don't die...we go on.

It's cool you're accusing me of swallowing a camel. I posted this on my facebook page yesterday.

 

[AJ_]

"You believe in the redeeming powers of suffering, if this suffering was done by somebody else, far away, two thousand years ago. We believe that it is up to every one of us to help each other, even through the pain of our bodies. ...We do not lay this burden onto our God, nor do we want to miss being face to face with the Spirit Power. ...We want no angel or saint to gain it for us and give it to us second-hand."
-John Fire Lame Deer


It's my feeling that the atonement theory is based on sacrificial religion that misunderstood that sacrifice is internal - giving up lower ego nature for higher consciousness and love for all.

 

[sprinkles]

Atonement in the OT was a shadow of the things to come, as I said before. The daily sacrifice was taken away. Jesus died one time for all sin. Read Leviticus and then read Hebrews. Atonement was replaced from daily or yearly to once, so it was not done away with.

Neither was the moral law done away with.

Making fun of this does not sit well for one that claims great spirituality.

"The last enemy that shall be defeated is death." Oh ones of little faith. Ye strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

You seem to think it's ok to belittle everyone who doesn't believe as you, as if you have all the answers and we're all fools, yet you wonder at the petulant reactions you get.

Stop acting like everyone besides you is unwashed trash and maybe we'll be a little bit less irreverent.

 

[just me]

I quote wise words. I cannot find better to say myself. I know where those words are found. Do you? Are you using me for tomorrow's arguments? I have no doubts in what I believe in. I am part of what I believe in.


For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

I am equipped for this: well equipped. This is not personal, but it is aimed at that which I have been called to do battle with. The Holy things I have been given in this world shall not be placed on display for those who can have no understanding of those things, for they will just make fun of those things and cry out against them. I am thankful for who I have been made, but I find it disrespectful to sit in judgment of menial things that no longer matter to me.

As for other people: I wish they had the same understanding I have. I wish they were shown the things I have been shown. I have found the ones that call themselves the most spiritual to feel threatened by what I have been given. I would they were more zealous than jealous. For it is not to him that willeth, or to him that runneth; but to whom God shows mercy on. I do not profess to know all things, but I can smell the odor that comes from that which stinketh. So many pry and prey on those that would give them the shirt off their back, but each of us is at our own level of understanding. Christ gave His life and shed His Blood so we no longer have to live with a guilty conscious. Some of us have no conscious. Some people hate, others are just mad because they feel the world has not treated them fairly. Everyone has a psalm, a song, a story, a life, a problem: what I despise is a stumblingstone or rock of offense in the path of those young in the Holy Spirit. Something inside me wants to protect them. Something. You figure it out. Maybe Someone? In any event, I'll not cast what I've been shown to the crowd to be stampled under foot: to be laughed at. To be hated for.

I would rather ask for mercy on all. I have. Such is the mind of Christ. These games of words tire me. Anyone that continues with such nonsense will be blocked from my reading, as I know your intentions. What you are attempting to do will not change anything.

 

[sprinkles]

I quote wise words. I cannot find better to say myself. I know where those words are found. Do you? Are you using me for tomorrow's arguments? I have no doubts in what I believe in. I am part of what I believe in.


For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

I am equipped for this: well equipped. This is not personal, but it is aimed at that which I have been called to do battle with. The Holy things I have been given in this world shall not be placed on display for those who can have no understanding of those things, for they will just make fun of those things and cry out against them. I am thankful for who I have been made, but I find it disrespectful to sit in judgment of menial things that no longer matter to me.

As for other people: I wish they had the same understanding I have. I wish they were shown the things I have been shown. I have found the ones that call themselves the most spiritual to feel threatened by what I have been given. I would they were more zealous than jealous. For it is not to him that willeth, or to him that runneth; but to whom God shows mercy on. I do not profess to know all things, but I can smell the odor that comes from that which stinketh. So many pry and prey on those that would give them the shirt off their back, but each of us is at our own level of understanding. Christ gave His life and shed His Blood so we no longer have to live with a guilty conscious. Some of us have no conscious. Some people hate, others are just mad because they feel the world has not treated them fairly. Everyone has a psalm, a song, a story, a life, a problem: what I despise is a stumblingstone or rock of offense in the path of those young in the Holy Spirit. Something inside me wants to protect them. Something. You figure it out. Maybe Someone? In any event, I'll not cast what I've been shown to the crowd to be stampled under foot: to be laughed at. To be hated for.

I would rather ask for mercy on all. I have. Such is the mind of Christ. These games of words tire me. Anyone that continues with such nonsense will be blocked from my reading, as I know your intentions. What you are attempting to do will not change anything.

Anyone can say this stuff. I could make these same claims against you if I felt like it. You want to know why I don't? Because it's actually pompous and disrespectful. Saying it in ye olde English just makes it even worse.

Anyway if that's how you feel about it then leave us to it. You say you won't cast what you've been shown yet you sure do talk a lot.

You display a LOT for someone who thinks they shouldn't. You think people will make fun of teachings you hold dear? Then take your own advice and stop saying them. Otherwise you're just making it come true.

Edit:
And really we should be the ones blocking you. As a matter of fact I'm going to right now.

 

[Y0u]

It's so much easier, especially in the long run, just to be nice to each other.

 

[sprinkles]

It's so much easier, especially in the long run, just to be nice to each other.

I find being nice just about the hardest thing to do lately.

The sprinkles that first came here was a nice and kind person for the most part. That sprinkles had some rather pleasant interactions with just me. But now that is only a memory because that sprinkles does not come here anymore. People destroyed her and drove her away. Now I'm just a monster.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=12533]Y0u[/MENTION]

It's also hard when you have exceptionally long memory as I do and everything stays fresh, or easily remembered... and stuff just keeps building up and you can't get rid of it. One slight trigger and suddenly I have five hundred fucking memories out of nowhere of things that hurt me over the years. I can look at a simple image or something and it'll be like BAM here's what this person said and this person and that person and this person and this guy did this and that guy pissed you off and this person hurt you and that guy was a jerk and I relive like the past five years in a few seconds.

It feels like I'm sinking. More and more experiences and memories keep flooding in and I can't get rid of them. It just gets worse and worse and things always feel more fresh. I have a big hole in my boat and all the water that is rushing in are memories and I try to will them away, calm myself, meditate, tell myself it's not a big deal... but it's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a tea cup.

 

[Y0u]

[MENTION=12533]Y0u[/MENTION]

It's also hard when you have exceptionally long memory as I do and everything stays fresh, or easily remembered... and stuff just keeps building up and you can't get rid of it. One slight trigger and suddenly I have five hundred fucking memories out of nowhere of things that hurt me over the years. I can look at a simple image or something and it'll be like BAM here's what this person said and this person and that person and this person and this guy did this and that guy pissed you off and this person hurt you and that guy was a jerk and I relive like the past five years in a few seconds.

It feels like I'm sinking. More and more experiences and memories keep flooding in and I can't get rid of them. It just gets worse and worse and things always feel more fresh. I have a big hole in my boat and all the water that is rushing in are memories and I try to will them away, calm myself, meditate, tell myself it's not a big deal... but it's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a tea cup.

I understand how you feel. I'm not sure how, but over time that part left from me. It takes a lot of concentrated effort, but it can make you a better person. It might seem like making small of the pain, but people can't help themselves w/o the right tools. Part one is understanding the effect of one's behavior. It could be that they had difficult pasts, or that they weren't given the right tools. It made it easier for me to move on, realizing that, and that in the end it didn't change who I wanted to be. When one's environment is unpleasant, it makes it harder to be pleasant... and one of the reasons good parenting is so important.

 

[sprinkles]

I understand how you feel. I'm not sure how, but over time that part left from me. It takes a lot of concentrated effort, but it can make you a better person. It might seem like making small of the pain, but people can't help themselves w/o the right tools. Part one is understanding the effect of one's behavior. It could be that they had difficult pasts, or that they weren't given the right tools. It made it easier for me to move on, realizing that, and that in the end it didn't change who I wanted to be. When one's environment is unpleasant, it makes it harder to be pleasant... and one of the reasons good parenting is so important.

My environment was shit and it isn't pleasant that people keep doing things which cause me to relive it and then pretend innocence and refuse to even entertain the concept of altering their approach. And they also have the nerve to pretend they care. If they cared they would not be furthering my torment so flippantly.

It left me for a while too but now for some reason I'm back where I was 20 years ago. I hope it's not going to take another 20 years to be right again.

 

[Skarekrow]

[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[Kgal]

It's so much easier, especially in the long run, just to be nice to each other.

Yes...it would be much easier if we could adopt this perspective. So why haven't we? Why do we make it all so very complicated?

I'm not directing this question just to [MENTION=12533]Y0u[/MENTION]...but to All of you.

Why DO we hang on to our beliefs and how did they get so complicated?

Why do we think we need rules on how to communicate with our gods?
Why do we think we need to follow them?
Do we need a church to pray in or else our prayers won't get heard?
Do we need a man standing up above us to tell us how to behave?

 

[Skarekrow]

Yes...it would be much easier if we could adopt this perspective. So why haven't we? Why do we make it all so very complicated?

I'm not directing this question just to @Y0u...but to All of you.

Why DO we hang on to our beliefs and how did they get so complicated?

Why do we think we need rules on how to communicate with our gods?
Why do we think we need to follow them?
Do we need a church to pray in or else our prayers won't get heard?
Do we need a man standing up above us to tell us how to behave?

I had a thought this morning…what if God doesn’t want us to ask for His help…just as every Parent wishes to see his/her child succeed independently.
Should we ask for help from the angels, from higher selves, from what or whomever you consider God?
Perhaps God once did intervene in the affairs of mankind, to help direct them, and instead they worshiped him, feared him, and even made sacrifices to him.
Other men made claim to Him and used to control and even justify wars and death.
So maybe he stopped interfering.
Just a thought that rolled around in my head for a bit.

 

[Kgal]

I had a thought this morning…what if God doesn’t want us to ask for His help…just as every Parent wishes to see his/her child succeed independently.
Should we ask for help from the angels, from higher selves, from what or whomever you consider God?
Perhaps God once did intervene in the affairs of mankind, to help direct them, and instead they worshiped him, feared him, and even made sacrifices to him.
Other men made claim to Him and used to control and even justify wars and death.
So maybe he stopped interfering.
Just a thought that rolled around in my head for a bit.

Are you asking me if we should ask for assistance from the Spirit world? By any means yes!
Are you suggesting the Creator is not listening to you? I would answer absolutely not. You are definitely being heard.

The real question is....are you listening for the answer?

Emotion is the key to everything here on planet Earth. The expression... the flow...

When we "pray to god" and we are holding fear or greed or anger or hatred in our hearts while we're praying....we will continue to experience those emotions in our lives. Things will happen around us to reflect that which we hold on to - back to us.

We may pray things like 'dear god.... please let our soldiers kill all of those who do not believe in you so my son can come home'. 'dear god....please let me win the lottery so i can buy a brand new lamberghini and look better than my neighbor who i hate'. ...and on and on with the emphasis on greed, anger, hatred, and fear.

If you put those emotions out there...that's what you'll get back...in one way or another....reflected all around you. Look at what the world is going through right now...

In my personal experiences with the spiritual world of the creator - it was not until I worked out a lot of my anger, fear, and hatred before I could "hear" what the spiritual world had to tell me.

...and that above...is the message that came to me.

Prime Creator, Source Energy, the Zero Point, the Field, the Buddha, Jesus, God: they all say... hold only unconditional love and kindness in your heart and you will know me.

 

[Skarekrow]

[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]


Can I at least have your stuff after the rapture?

 

[AJ_]

Yes...it would be much easier if we could adopt this perspective. So why haven't we? Why do we make it all so very complicated?

I'm not directing this question just to [MENTION=12533]Y0u[/MENTION]...but to All of you.

Why DO we hang on to our beliefs and how did they get so complicated?

Why do we think we need rules on how to communicate with our gods?
Why do we think we need to follow them?
Do we need a church to pray in or else our prayers won't get heard?
Do we need a man standing up above us to tell us how to behave?

I had a thought this morning…what if God doesn’t want us to ask for His help…just as every Parent wishes to see his/her child succeed independently.
Should we ask for help from the angels, from higher selves, from what or whomever you consider God?
Perhaps God once did intervene in the affairs of mankind, to help direct them, and instead they worshiped him, feared him, and even made sacrifices to him.
Other men made claim to Him and used to control and even justify wars and death.
So maybe he stopped interfering.
Just a thought that rolled around in my head for a bit.

This is why I find Ganesh in Indian culture so fascinating. Ganesh is the deity that will help anyone who asks for help, even if they don’t know who they’re asking it of. Once a year, they have a celebration honoring Ganesh and they make little clay statues of him to show their gratitude. At the end of the celebration, the people are to throw the clay statue into the river because Ganesh wants to teach them to not to be permanently dependent on anyone, including him.

An emotionally developed parent would want their child to grow to be strong, loving and independent – not subservient and perpetually guilty. A good guide would help the seeker but would want the seeker to learn to travel on his or her own, not be eternally dependent. In this reality, I believe that we can definitely benefit from guides, but the feeling should be appreciation and love without conditions, not continual dependency.