Best of all possible worlds???

[GracieRuth]

Has anyone else ever privately wondered if THIS is actually the best of all possible worlds?

I grew up believing in heaven, someplace better than this, where there is no weeping. But in my contemplations, I've tried to imagine exactly what heaven would be like, and end up with a "monkey's paw" or "lathe of heaven" kind of fantasy. Like, if we really lived FOREVER, wouldn't it get boring after a time? And eternal life would mean there is no procreation... but what kind of heaven doesn't have children laughing, or flowers blooming? I hate suffering as much as the next person, but I've found that suffering acts for many of us like geological pressure morphing graphite into diamonds. We need suffering to grow, and how could it be heaven if it is static? And freedom means freedom to do ugliness and evil... could it really be heaven if we are no longer free?

Yeah, I know its not of any practical use, but I DO think about this stuff. Anyone else?

 

[acd]

This could be a better world if people did not take it for granted and preoccupy themselves with the next.

 

[randomsomeone]

All the good we know of now will exist without limits. The illusions, the false, the fears will fall away...Reality will finally be seen clearly.

That said, it is good and right for you (and all of us) to cherish and value the good we see now. Lovely as these gifts are, they are only echos, pointers, hints....but still of great value.

I believe and experience that we can enter into the mysteries of Reality in many ways now, in this world. With the door ajar, what we see and perceive is wondrous indeed. The two worlds are connected.

 

[GracieRuth]

All the good we know of now will exist without limits. The illusions, the false, the fears will fall away...Reality will finally be seen clearly.

That said, it is good and right for you (and all of us) to cherish and value the good we see now. Lovely as these gifts are, they are only echos, pointers, hints....but still of great value.

I believe and experience that we can enter into the mysteries of Reality in many ways now, in this world. With the door ajar, what we see and perceive is wondrous indeed. The two worlds are connected.

Oh this is so CS Lewis and Plato! Very eloquently stated. You had me seeing that Wardrobe Door.

 

[Kgal]

Has anyone else ever privately wondered if THIS is actually the best of all possible worlds?

I grew up believing in heaven, someplace better than this, where there is no weeping. But in my contemplations, I've tried to imagine exactly what heaven would be like, and end up with a "monkey's paw" or "lathe of heaven" kind of fantasy. Like, if we really lived FOREVER, wouldn't it get boring after a time? And eternal life would mean there is no procreation... but what kind of heaven doesn't have children laughing, or flowers blooming? I hate suffering as much as the next person, but I've found that suffering acts for many of us like geological pressure morphing graphite into diamonds. We need suffering to grow, and how could it be heaven if it is static? And freedom means freedom to do ugliness and evil... could it really be heaven if we are no longer free?

Yeah, I know its not of any practical use, but I DO think about this stuff. Anyone else?

Don't dismiss this as of no use! This is exactly of use! This is marvelous ponderings to read.

Just like [MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] said - this world would be a better place - a place for us to learn to utilize our full potentials and creativity - if more people started thinking as you.

Don't stop.

 

[willow]

Has anyone else ever privately wondered if THIS is actually the best of all possible worlds?

I grew up believing in heaven, someplace better than this, where there is no weeping. But in my contemplations, I've tried to imagine exactly what heaven would be like, and end up with a "monkey's paw" or "lathe of heaven" kind of fantasy. Like, if we really lived FOREVER, wouldn't it get boring after a time? And eternal life would mean there is no procreation... but what kind of heaven doesn't have children laughing, or flowers blooming? I hate suffering as much as the next person, but I've found that suffering acts for many of us like geological pressure morphing graphite into diamonds. We need suffering to grow, and how could it be heaven if it is static? And freedom means freedom to do ugliness and evil... could it really be heaven if we are no longer free?

Yeah, I know its not of any practical use, but I DO think about this stuff. Anyone else?

Isn't the big appeal of heaven to be with God? Why would it be boring to be with the creator of the Universe?

 

[GracieRuth]

Isn't the big appeal of heaven to be with God? Why would it be boring to be with the creator of the Universe?

But I think you will agree that G-d is here with us right here right now: we only need the eyes to see. I'm neither christian nor gnostic, but I do like the saying in the movie, "STIGMATA" : "The Kingdom of God is all around you, not in edifices of wood or stone. Look under a rock, and I am there, look behind every tree and I am there...".

Yeah I know its a fake quote and not really part of the gospel of Thomas, but I love it anyway.

So... if G-d is with us right here right now, doesn't that make this heaven?

 

[willow]

But I think you will agree that G-d is here with us right here right now: we only need the eyes to see. I'm neither christian nor gnostic, but I do like the saying in the movie, "STIGMATA" : "The Kingdom of God is all around you, not in edifices of wood or stone. Look under a rock, and I am there, look behind every tree and I am there...".

Yeah I know its a fake quote and not really part of the gospel of Thomas, but I love it anyway.

So... if G-d is with us right here right now, doesn't that make this heaven?

God's is the creator (Is 40:28) of nature (Gen 1:1). He and nature are not one in the same however, nature reveals his glory (Ps 19:1-6). Adam and Eve lived in paradise where they were in communion with God but after the Fall as outlined in Genesis they were evicted so, no, this is not heaven.

 

[Norton]

"Go to heaven for the climate and hell for the company." (Mark Twain)

 

[randomsomeone]

So... if G-d is with us right here right now, doesn't that make this heaven?

no, this is not heaven.

Yes, from certain perspectives I suspect both are true. I think the removal of limitations, like a clearing mist, will make Reality a truly amazing place.

I think about it this way sometimes......imagine you are a baby in it's mother's womb. In this world you are warm, protected and experience a sense of love (one would hope). All is well in this cozy place from what you can tell. You are alive, and your bodily systems are functioning just fine.

Death.....which is no more than crossing over to a new existence....is very much like a birth. If the baby in it's mother's womb tried to conceive of the change to breathing air, experiencing hot and cold, hearing sounds and seeing light in a direct manner, it would no doubt have doubts about leaving it's nuturing abode. At least it would be cause for wonderment.

Now, imagine that you told that baby in it's mother's womb that it could fly to Paris, walk crowded city streets, see a sunset and stars, read a book written hundreds of years ago, eat chocolate. Such things would be beyond imagining...I mean, what handle would one have for such things?

This is how I think of the afterlife, where we enter into a whole other Reality. We can can glimpse perhaps here and now, but otherwise never imagine with any degree of clarity.

 

[Sensiko]

Yes, from certain perspectives I suspect both are true. I think the removal of limitations, like a clearing mist, will make Reality a truly amazing place.

I think about it this way sometimes......imagine you are a baby in it's mother's womb. In this world you are warm, protected and experience a sense of love (one would hope). All is well in this cozy place from what you can tell. You are alive, and your bodily systems are functioning just fine.

Death.....which is no more than crossing over to a new existence....is very much like a birth. If the baby in it's mother's womb tried to conceive of the change to breathing air, experiencing hot and cold, hearing sounds and seeing light in a direct manner, it would no doubt have doubts about leaving it's nuturing abode. At least it would be cause for wonderment.

Now, imagine that you told that baby in it's mother's womb that it could fly to Paris, walk crowded city streets, see a sunset and stars, read a book written hundreds of years ago, eat chocolate. Such things would be beyond imagining...I mean, what handle would one have for such things?

This is how I think of the afterlife, where we enter into a whole other Reality. We can can glimpse perhaps here and now, but otherwise never imagine with any degree of clarity.

^^^^This
For me, there is no doubt that heaven exists and heaven is a place where the devine dwell. I had an experience where I envisioned the gates of heaven and I was overwhelmed with the feeling that I was almost "home." What lay beyond was a place of comfort and clarity. Earth is a place our souls choose to come to experience pain and suffering. Without these experiences, we can never understand the true nature of the devine and evolve.