Awareness of Logic Fail??

[Feelings]

Oh my god, I almost had a seizure when I saw this! I was chatting with a very magical friend of mine, and they informed me of some interesting tidbits. My friend has the habit of saying "I just don't see the point in that" or "I don't understand why..." just as an indication that they don't like something, as a figure of speech. I was like WHAT?? When somebody says "I don't see the point in..." I automatically respond with "well, the point of this is......" or if they say they don't understand, my knee jerk reaction is to explain to them what they don't understand. But they do understand, and they know what the "point" is, they just want to indicate that they don't like something. It is like a personal preference, or emotion, being presented as logic to strengthen the validity of that preference or emotion. It's deceptive, and slightly manipulative.

Which led me to say "I just want everybody to be clear when they're communicating emotion, and clear when they're communicating logic so that I can respond accordingly". Apparently, a VAST portion of the human race aren't even aware when they're communicating emotion over logic. People think that they logically make sense when.... they don't... at all.... and their entire thought process is illogical... but they think that it is logical. I was just absolutely FLOORED. Like, WHAT??? How is it possible for a person to be completely emotionally driven, but completely believing that they are being logical????? OH MY GOD....

It explains so much......... but WOW.... OH MY GOD.... the DELUSION.......

 

[Limit]

You know what I find interesting about this thread?

I think before we can accuse others of these logical failures, we must be able to identify our own.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Which led me to say "I just want everybody to be clear when they're communicating emotion, and clear when they're communicating logic so that I can respond accordingly". Apparently, a VAST portion of the human race aren't even aware when they're communicating emotion over logic. People think that they logically make sense when.... they don't... at all.... and their entire thought process is illogical... but they think that it is logical. I was just absolutely FLOORED. Like, WHAT??? How is it possible for a person to be completely emotionally driven, but completely believing that they are being logical????? OH MY GOD....

The difficulty with people who cannot segregate their emotions from their logic is that they project this problem onto other individuals.

You can make a very concise, clear and logical point; they will then interpolate their personal biases onto that information and respond: "This is entirely based upon your own subjective biases" because their own analysis is based on this very weak criteria.

The information is logical and concise; the failure is in their ability to disentangle their own biases from their own thought process. Accusing others of failure is simply an indication of their incompetence.

 

[Feelings]

You know what I find interesting about this thread?

I think before we can accuse others of these logical failures, we must be able to identify our own.

Ad hominem, again and again. You're emotionally rampant and for some reason find the need to follow me around the forum and make personal remarks towards me. It appalls me that you can't see that.

 

[Feelings]

The difficulty with people who cannot segregate their emotions from their logic is that they project this problem onto other individuals.

You can make a very concise, clear and logical point; they will then interpolate their personal biases onto that information and respond: "This is entirely based upon your own subjective biases" because their own analysis is based on this very weak criteria.

The information is logical and concise; the failure is in their ability to disentangle their own biases from their own thought process. Accusing others of failure is simply an indication of their incompetence.

What? No, that's ridiculous. I'm being perfectly objective. Maybe you should have a look at your own biases before you speak because it appears to me that you're using your own weak criteria to try to be "concise and logical". And have you ever thought that when you accuse other people of logic "failure" that you're showing your own incompetence? So you're projecting your problems onto others yourself! How ironic!

 

[InvisibleJim]

What? No, that's ridiculous. I'm being perfectly objective. Maybe you should have a look at your own biases before you speak because it appears to me that you're using your own weak criteria to try to be "concise and logical". And have you ever thought that when you accuse other people of logic "failure" that you're showing your own incompetence? So you're projecting your problems onto others yourself! How ironic!

Very good! Now you are using the required social skill-set to fit in to our society!

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Logical = what I think is true
Illogical = what I think is false

If you disagree, you suck at logic.

 

[Feelings]

Very good! Now you are using the required social skill-set to fit in to our society!

YOU'RE USING THE REQUIRED SKILL-SET TO... wait a second... oh why thank you. You're actually a really nice guy when you want to be, that's really sweet. Let's be friends.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

@Princess Anastasia: provide some examples (real or hypothetical) of when someone has responded "I don't see the point..." to something, where they've apparently mixed up logic and emotion. It may be the case that you are interpreting "why" in terms of a specific logic, which is not the usual way that it is understood.

 

[Feelings]

Logical = what I think is true
Illogical = what I think is false

If you disagree, you suck at logic.

Lol, you almost had it right.

Logical = what I would like to be true
Illogical = what I would like to be false

If you disagree, you are my enemy and will suffer punishment of crushing.

 

[Feelings]

@Princess Anastasia: provide some examples (real or hypothetical) of when someone has responded "I don't see the point..." to something, where they've apparently mixed up logic and emotion. It may be the case that you are interpreting "why" in terms of a specific logic, which is not the usual way that it is understood.

Well, correct I guess, except I won't concede on what you believe to be the "usual" understanding. And I don't see the reason why you are bringing this up, because I already explained in the OP that I can see that these phrases are used as figures of speech to indicate that a person doesn't like something.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Well, correct I guess, except I won't concede on what you believe to be the "usual" understanding. And I don't see the reason why you are bringing this up, because I already explained in the OP that I can see that these phrases are used as figures of speech to indicate that a person doesn't like something.

Because it's not so much that they don't like it, but because... they don't see the point to it, simple as that. That doesn't mean they don't understand the internal logic of what you are saying, but they can't see why you would want to implement the idea. So, to you "the point" may be the what rather than the why.

+ Or perhaps you get all of that, and the problem is that you've come across some people who are using that phrase in a passive aggressive manner, to say "I'm not even going to consider this idea, go away" rather than saying "I can't comprehend why you would want to do this". If this is the case, and it's not their use of phrasing but that kind of passive aggressiveness/refusal to manage a conversation reasonably, then yeah, stuff like that bewilders me too. I can pick up on them doing it, but it's annoying that they can't just consider things from a detached/hypothetical point of view.

Making a connection to Typology, perhaps this is an Fi thing?

 

[cazandria]

Because it's not so much that they don't like it, but because... they don't see the point to it, simple as that. That doesn't mean they don't understand the internal logic of what you are saying, but they can't see why you would want to implement the idea. So, to you "the point" may be the what rather than the why.

+ Or perhaps you get all of that, and the problem is that you've come across some people who are using that phrase in a passive aggressive manner, to say "I'm not even going to consider this idea, go away" rather than saying "I can't comprehend why you would want to do this". If this is the case, and it's not their use of phrasing but that kind of passive aggressiveness/refusal to manage a conversation reasonably, then yeah, stuff like that bewilders me too. I can pick up on them doing it, but it's annoying that they can't just consider things from a detached/hypothetical point of view.

Making a connection to Typology, perhaps this is an Fi thing?

Does kinda seem like an Fi thing, my sister has high Fi and she definitely does this. Seems Fe is more concerned with being fully understood, and synthesizing.

 

[Trifoilum]

Aaaaah. It's sweet, isn't it? *sips tea*

I personally believe behind emotions, lies logic, and behind logic, lies emotions. Of course, some people are more talented / tormented to completely eradicate one from the other, but then~

 

[Kmal]

My friend has the habit of saying "I just don't see the point in that" or "I don't understand why..." just as an indication that they don't like something, as a figure of speech. I was like WHAT?? When somebody says "I don't see the point in..."

I automatically respond with "well, the point of this is......" or if they say they don't understand, my knee jerk reaction is to explain to them what they don't understand. But they do understand, and they know what the "point" is, they just want to indicate that they don't like something.

It is like a personal preference, or emotion, being presented as logic to strengthen the validity of that preference or emotion. It's deceptive, and slightly manipulative.

Which led me to say "I just want everybody to be clear when they're communicating emotion, and clear when they're communicating logic so that I can respond accordingly". Apparently, a VAST portion of the human race aren't even aware when they're communicating emotion over logic. People think that they logically make sense when.... they don't... at all.... and their entire thought process is illogical... but they think that it is logical. I was just absolutely FLOORED. Like, WHAT??? How is it possible for a person to be completely emotionally driven, but completely believing that they are being logical????? OH MY GOD....

They dont see the point in DOING said activity because they believe said activity will suck. It seems you lack any sort of empathy and placing yourself in other's shoes. Do you like things that suck? I bet you dont see the point in taking a hammer and pounding your genitals off-- "OMI GAWD I TOTALLY SEE THE POINT IN THAT ITS LIKE SELF PUNISHMENT OR ITS TO LIKE GET RID OF YOUR BALLS LOL C WUT I DID THERE"

It's like a personal preference being expressed as a personal preference-- I dont see the point in doing things I dont like either--- DUH!!! you also must understand what a point is-- it can be a million different things. the point of having sex is a little different than the point of doing homework-- also, your point for doing said activities is probably different than me or them. ffs

dont call someone illogical because you cant see where they're coming from.

 

[Detective Conan]

Oh my god, I almost had a seizure when I saw this! I was chatting with a very magical friend of mine, and they informed me of some interesting tidbits. My friend has the habit of saying "I just don't see the point in that" or "I don't understand why..." just as an indication that they don't like something, as a figure of speech. I was like WHAT?? When somebody says "I don't see the point in..." I automatically respond with "well, the point of this is......" or if they say they don't understand, my knee jerk reaction is to explain to them what they don't understand. But they do understand, and they know what the "point" is, they just want to indicate that they don't like something. It is like a personal preference, or emotion, being presented as logic to strengthen the validity of that preference or emotion. It's deceptive, and slightly manipulative.

Which led me to say "I just want everybody to be clear when they're communicating emotion, and clear when they're communicating logic so that I can respond accordingly". Apparently, a VAST portion of the human race aren't even aware when they're communicating emotion over logic. People think that they logically make sense when.... they don't... at all.... and their entire thought process is illogical... but they think that it is logical. I was just absolutely FLOORED. Like, WHAT??? How is it possible for a person to be completely emotionally driven, but completely believing that they are being logical????? OH MY GOD....

Don't we see this entirely too often in politics and the news media outlets?

I'm not sure how to make people more aware of what logic actually is. Every time you correct someone on their 'logic,' they get offended and become closed off to seriously consider what you're trying to tell them. I think a lot of this (at least in the states) comes from something a lot of students of US schools hear from their literature teacher, that being that all answers are equally correct. I'm sorry, but if you think this is true, then you are WRONG with a capital W and every other letter in the word. I also think people in general throw around the word "logic" to add more meat to whatever they're spouting about...

 

[Kmal]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logic

log

 

[the]

I just want everybody to have more skill when they're interpreting emotion, and more skill when they're interpreting logic so that I can communicate more effectively.

 

[Kmal]

I just want everybody to looooove everone else, so when we're all around each other, we can loooooove more efficiently!!

 

[bickelz]

[MENTION=1798]Princess Anastasia[/MENTION] Omg, my friends have trouble recognizing this when they're making arguments. They try to make an emotional argument fit into logical premises because they're afraid of having emotions or something. Can you say annoying?