Are we antisocial to others?

[just me]

Have to go, but while the thought is fresh.......is it a proper evaluation to call us antisocial? I guess we do show signs of it to some others....

 

[enfp can be shy]

What do you mean, INFJs??

No. Maybe. I don't know. I've found most rebellious tendencies of INFJs to be just more reasonable than what their current society believes.

INFJs may be odd birds sometimes, and even a bit isolated, but they do not hate people in general, and would not harm people.

No, I would never call INFJs antisocial. Like every other type, they can be pushed to the brink of madness, of course, but even then they very rarely end up hurting anyone. And if so, that would be by accident.

Actually some extroverts are more antisocial than some introverts. For example, verbal sadists, abusing people with words, for pleasure. INFJs cause no such problems.

INFJs tend to avoid people, because INFJs are too compassionate. To be antisocial requires lack of empathy, which seems very hard for INFJ to even grasp.

 

[Reon]

Have to go, but while the thought is fresh.......is it a proper evaluation to call us antisocial? I guess we do show signs of it to some others....

Antisocial in the typical sense? Not really, just really shy and such.

Antisocial in the sense of the disorder: No. Not at all.

 

[TinyBubbles]

let's see:

The antisocial personality has the following attributes:
1. He or she speaks only in very broad generalities.

 

[Blind Bandit]

It depends on who you ask. A raging extrovert who can't be away from people. Yes we are antisocial. And I've been called it before. To almost anyone who is not an extreme extrovert no we aren't.

 

[jn56uytrx]

Anti-social behaviour (with or without hyphen) is behaviour that lacks consideration for others and that may cause damage to society, whether intentionally or through negligence, as opposed to pro-social behaviour, behaviour that helps or benefits society (Berger 2003, p. 302).

In common parlance antisocial is often used to describe those perceived to be excessively introverted, an incorrect though increasingly common usage.

Wikipedia

I think we can be, but no more than any other type. I also think we are prone to being pro-social, but probably no more than any other type.

If the reference is to the second paragraph, then I suppose the excessively introverted among infjs would be appropriately labeled as such in common parlance, but then so would the excessively introverted among infps, intps, intjs, isfjs, istjs, isfps, and istps.

Has someone made this accusation? If so, it seems a pretty sloppy blanket application of the term to me.

 

[jn56uytrx]

some of those DO make me wonder...

Are you serious?

Also, just to point out the actual DSM-IV criteria for Anti-Social personality, see below:

Diagnostic criteria (DSM-IV-TR = 301.7)

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and the rights of others occurring since the age of 15, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

B) The individual is at least 18 years of age.

C) There is evidence of Conduct disorder with onset before age 15.

D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

Wikipedia

 

[Raccoon Love]

I do not believe I am antisocial. Others however, have constantly accused me of being antisocial. I guess there's a lot of misunderstandings of what being antisocial really is and therefore many introverts tend to be labeled as being antisocial. Though some traits of the antisocial personality might apply to me at times, I believe that most of the time I do not behave in antisocial manner. Furthermore I can at times be the opposite of what antisocial is defined as. I am just an introvert, I do not see nothing wrong with that.

 

[TinyBubbles]

Are you serious?

not really. the criteria i posted i found out later are from a scientology website, not the most reliable source (sorry about that). from what you posted, i don't think anyone here is anti-social. maybe socially avoidant, but that is a different issue.

 

[waterbaby]

It depends on who you ask. A raging extrovert who can't be away from people. Yes we are antisocial. And I've been called it before. To almost anyone who is not an extreme extrovert no we aren't.

Oddly, an ISTP once accused me of being antisocial. I think that comment was based on a complete inability to understand the motivations of others, and not entirely type related, but I found it funny. He held weekly outings with his friends and such, but I'm with my child every waking moment, and as much as I love her, a Saturday night alone is a welcome relief when I find one. This inability to comprehend the feelings of others was a running theme in our friendship. What a surprise. I know part of the ISTP type is a tendency to distrust feelings in general, but he was sooooooooo extreme in it... Once we realized we couldn't "fix" each other (I think it was "save" on my end, "fix" on his), we parted ways. Sorry if I rambled off topic.

Interestingly, other introverts often mistake me for an extrovert, while extroverts consistently seem to think that I'm depressed, or something is "wrong" with me for not wanting to go out constantly.

 

[Ergo Christobal]

As a kid, I was suposedly antisocial in the conventional sense. My parents even signed me up for this once/week social skills workshop where this old lady played various board games with me. It was fun, but kinda weird thinking back on it...

The truth was that I had a very small amount of really good friends, and that trend still holds true today. I think INFJs aren't necesarily antisocial in the conventional way, we just find it hard to open up, and as a result we open up to a few select people. That might count as being anti-social but to our close friends we are very sociable.

I'm new to this whole INFJ thing though, is the small close knit-friend thing a major aspect? Different INFJ descriptions say so.

I think the medical versions of antisocial-ness are a bit extreme, and nothing like the common use of the word. INFJs are definitely not that.

 

[jn56uytrx]

not really. the criteria i posted i found out later are from a scientology website, not the most reliable source (sorry about that). from what you posted, i don't think anyone here is anti-social. maybe socially avoidant, but that is a different issue.

Whew, I was wondering what the heck you saw in us for a moment. lol

I think you're closer to the mark with socially avoidant. I'm not sure I can think of anyone here who would actually qualify for avoidant personality disorder, but I think, as a generalization, some of us may head that direction, certainly more so than the antisocial personality direction.

I'm new to this whole INFJ thing though, is the small close knit-friend thing a major aspect? Different INFJ descriptions say so.

I think that's a major aspect of any introvert manifestation, not an abnormality.

 

[randomsomeone]

No, I don't think "being anti-social" is part of INFJness at all. If someone happens to be this way, that'd be a seperate matter.

 

[just me]

Whew, I was wondering what the heck you saw in us for a moment. lol

I think you're closer to the mark with socially avoidant. I'm not sure I can think of anyone here who would actually qualify for avoidant personality disorder, but I think, as a generalization, some of us may head that direction, certainly more so than the antisocial personality direction.



I think that's a major aspect of any introvert manifestation, not an abnormality.

tovlo, when you get the time and if you don't mind, could you spell out from the DSM-IV the "avoidant personality disorder"?

I think there are times I may be somewhat avoidant due to life circumstances, though I would not call that as having an avoidant personality disorder. I have seen others going through difficult times in life
showing signs of being withdrawn, but that usually goes away quickly.
Some folk take longer with more difficult situations.

No, I have not heard anyone claim the INFJ to be antisocial as a generalization. I do think the term "antisocial" is not fully understood by enough people. The term "loner" is also not fully understood and used against people in criminal investigations a lot.

 

[Skoffin]

I've been described as antisocial before, some have said that I seem like a sociopath. I'm not really sure though to be honest.

 

[Raccoon Love]

tovlo, when you get the time and if you don't mind, could you spell out from the DSM-IV the "avoidant personality disorder"?

I think there are times I may be somewhat avoidant due to life circumstances, though I would not call that as having an avoidant personality disorder. I have seen others going through difficult times in life
showing signs of being withdrawn, but that usually goes away quickly.
Some folk take longer with more difficult situations.

No, I have not heard anyone claim the INFJ to be antisocial as a generalization. I do think the term "antisocial" is not fully understood by enough people. The term "loner" is also not fully understood and used against people in criminal investigations a lot.

Exactly, I am also avoidant due to life circumstances. I am pretty much withdrawn much of the time, this does not mean I do not care. I value this world and enjoy helping others as much as I can. I agree about the term loner, it is very misunderstood. I am pretty much one myself, and people have misjudge me because of it.

 

[jn56uytrx]

tovlo, when you get the time and if you don't mind, could you spell out from the DSM-IV the "avoidant personality disorder"?

The avoidant personality disorder doesn't list the DSM-IV, but does list the World Health Organizations ICD-10 diagnostic criteria:

Diagnostic criteria (ICD-10)

The World Health Organization's ICD-10 lists avoidant personality disorder as (F60.6) Anxious (avoidant) personality disorder.[2]

It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:

1. persistent and pervasive feelings of tension and apprehension;
2. belief that one is socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others;
3. excessive preoccupation with being criticized or rejected in social situations;
4. unwillingness to become involved with people unless certain of being liked;
5. restrictions in lifestyle because of need to have physical security;
6. avoidance of social or occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact because of fear of criticism, disapproval, or rejection.

Associated features may include hypersensitivity to rejection and criticism.

It is a requirement of ICD-10 that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfy a set of general personality disorder criteria.

Wikipedia

I have resonance with many of the criteria listed, but I think the thing that would eliminate me from this diagnosis would be the degree to which I exhibit the characteristics.

 

[just me]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder#General_diagnostic_criteria_2

Some of this reminds me of Monk on TV. The man lacks in some fields but is gifted in others for balance. heh

Thank you, tovlo! Followed your link to another.

A person cannot be analyzed by his personality type as having a personality disorder. I do agree with the "degree" of each item as being of utmost importance, even moreso than the regularity of it. The INFJ is certainly not the victim of a disorder, but rather is blessed in ways others are not....just as others are blessed in certain ways.

I will say I will be myself after all these years. If others do not understand me I can accept that. I do open up the more I am around people......just the way I am. I hold no disrespect for those that do not understand.

 

[deadred]

truly interesting stuff...

I think INFJs aren't anti-scoial because of our deep feelings for others. We may be more solitary individuals, but that is when we do our research and deep thinking. Our brains are like a very sensitive radio reciever that picks up many stations that can often block out weaker, but equally important signals. We may prefer soliltude so that we can analyze our thoughts and feelings in a more complete and efficient way.
One thing that has puzzled me about myself is that I am definitely an introvert, except when I am with people I know very well and who know me well. I am extroverted then, it seems. This makes sense to me, but I still find it interesting.
I also think the general public isn't always precise in using language or in understanding definitions. If someone appears to be anti-social to others, if the behavior isn't pathologic, where's the problem? I just prefer peace and quiet, and the best way to achieve that is through relative solitude. Labels can be very misleading.

 

[Gaze]

I do not believe I am antisocial. Others however, have constantly accused me of being antisocial. I guess there's a lot of misunderstandings of what being antisocial really is and therefore many introverts tend to be labeled as being antisocial.

Agree.