ARE There Really Only Two Functions? | INFJ Forum

ARE There Really Only Two Functions?

Kappacity

Kappacity

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Dec 25, 2009
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MBTI
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ARE there really only two functions, an I and E, introverted and extroverted?

When I think about the other six, (S, N, T, F, P, J) I perceive a dichotomy they share, which "boils down" to being either I or E.

For example, I perceive S vs N to be, Sensing a pure extroverted function versus Intuition, which appears to be introverted in nature. Likewise, the Thinking function to be introverted, while Feeling looks an awful lot like pure extroversion. This one in particular is hard to refute. And following, the Perceiving function seems to be a part of the larger category of extroversion by simply dealing with what is. Meaning, to not try to shape how things ought to be, but simply to let the world do "it's thing". The Judging function grows out of the individuals will. That implies to me that it's the introverted mind applying itself against the world.

I look forward to this wonderful community's input. Thank you for taking the time read. Thanks for being here, Reader.
 
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Are you already familiar with the cognitive processes?

Ti
Fi
Ne
Se
Ni
...
etc.
 
Kappacity said:
For example, I perceive S vs N to be, Sensing a pure extroverted function versus Intuition, which appears to be introverted in nature.
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Try telling any of our ENTP's that.
 
That's one of the most interesting MBTI theories I've read in a long time. I'll have to think on it some more. But the one that strikes me as hard to go with is the T/F example you gave. I think F can be both introverted or extroverted. I can feel very deeply and be by myself. I can even NOT be considering others when doing this. Appreciating music or nature for example. As a matter of fact, for me I consider feeling to be both introverted and extroverted. Now I agree with you on the J/P (very much so).
 
KazeCraven said:
Are you already familiar with the cognitive processes?

Ti
Fi
Ne
Se
Ni
...
etc.
Click to expand...
Hmm. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I didn't have cognitive processes in mind when I posed my question. I am familiar, but I've never examined them. I assume Ti would be introverted thinking, while Te would be extroverted. Without having looked it up yet, my first impression is that whether it's thinking extroverted-ly or intro-ly, the concept of thinking encompasses introversion...hmmm. I'll have to see how the Myers-Briggs theory describes the difference between Ti and Te. Thanks!
 
Questingpoet said:
That's one of the most interesting MBTI theories I've read in a long time. I'll have to think on it some more. But the one that strikes me as hard to go with is the T/F example you gave. I think F can be both introverted or extroverted. I can feel very deeply and be by myself. I can even NOT be considering others when doing this. Appreciating music or nature for example. As a matter of fact, for me I consider feeling to be both introverted and extroverted. Now I agree with you on the J/P (very much so).
Click to expand...

QuestingPoet, thank you for the kind words. I see your point on T/F being less translatable into the I and E grouping.

When I wrote this this morning, for those two (T and F) I had feeling represented as being anger. When people are angry they don't think and are completely extroverted (if angry enough). Blind rage.... or what is that lawyer term when people go "temporarily insane" because of anger? Contrasting that, when people aren't angry they can think. But your idea really throws light onto the error of my limited view of feeling. Thanks bud. (Isn't it funny how in text I can call you "buddy", but in person, seeing you are a 44 year old, "buddy" would be the last thing I'd call you. Ha ha ha.) Take care.
 
Shai Gar said:
:m027:
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The meaning of your emoticon is lost upon me. All I can gather is it's name, M027. He looks satisfied. I am guessing he has had a good idea?

Haha. The word emoticon. Reminds me of a Simpsons' quote, "There is no emoticon for what I am feeling."
 
Okay, after letting it settle for a while, I think that there is some truth to this BUT we'd have to somewhat redefine introversion and extroversion, and what we're referring to with these dichotomies.

In particular, I'd also have the most problem with the T/F distinction. What you described sounds like you are contrasting contemplation with attention to social dynamics. This, of course, leaves out focusing on one's inner world of feeling tones and values as well as leaving out logical execution, which is of a similar nature to social caring in the place that it works from (i.e. an inner idea to an outward manifestation).

N vs S, however, has been equated with introspection vs observation (see Keirsey), so I see some truth there. Also, I see J vs P as being inward to outward (drawing on something within the self) vs outward to inward (using what is experienced to change oneself).

My main problem with this theory, however, is that it seems to be linking together things that seem to be able to vary independently of one another. Someone who is an ENTJ is quite different from someone who is ISTJ despite the fact that we've just relocated where the introversion is at. That's the reason why the first thing I came up with was the cognitive processes, because they describe quite a bit that seems to be lost in just the four-letter code.
 
While I do believe the functions can be simplified (I rather simplify them to Si and Se, the original primitive distinction between us), I was with you until this part:
Kappacity said:
Perceiving function seems to be a part of the larger category of extroversion by simply dealing with what is. Meaning, to not try to shape how things ought to be, but simply to let the world do "it's thing". The Judging function grows out of the individuals will. That implies to me that it's the introverted mind applying itself against the world.
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To me it seems the other way around - going outside is to judge others, staying inside is letting them judge you. I think what you describe is your Fe vs your Ti, while I describe my Te vs my Fi. Your T starts from inside so you feel more judging in control there; my T starts from outside so I feel more judging in control there. As T is more power-oriented than F, people may be inclined to think their T is the main source of judgment and confidence (that's not true, their F is as strong force).
 
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Judging functions: Ti, Te, Fi, Fe

Perceiving functions: Ni, Ne, Si, Se

Everyone uses all of them. What you use more is your preference. Al "I" types have as their primary function an 'i' cognitive process, and vice versus. So INFJs have Ni, ENTPs Ne, ESFJs Fe, etc...

In order to successful synthesize information, one must utilize both perceiving and judging functions. However, I do not think that some functions are necessary more introverted than others. In MBTI theory, 'J' and 'P' are not functions; really, the main function of those letters is to indicate cognitive process order (and thus are preferences themselves). Some people unfamiliar with MBTI think you can go from being a 'J' type to being a 'P' type relatively easily, but to do so effectively requires a reordering of all your main cognitive processes, which is a massive difference.

For example, for an INFJ to go to an INFP, you have to go from NI, Fe, Ti to Fi, Ne, Si

It would really be much easier to go from INFJ to INTJ, but even there, as we know, is a world of difference. However, it is not much compared to the world of difference between switching the J and the P.

Perceives can be very introverted while judgers can be very extroverted, or vice versa, and that applies to all of the MBTI dichotomies. You have to remember that the defining characteristic, the definition, of MBTI introversion revolves around energy. Extroverts are energized by being around people; introverts are drained by them.

It isn't the same as introversion in the commonly used sense. According to MBTI, over half the population are introverts. According to the common definition, no more than 25%, and probably even less, are extroverts. If you are thinking of how cognitive functions might correspond to the common definition, I can't help you much. I'd say that INXX types are likely to be the most "Introverted", but there are exceptions that come off as being extremely extroverted. I know an INFP who is more outgoing than anyone else I know, so there are exceptions.


The other thing I wanted to say is that all the cognitive processes are internal (in your head), and whether they are introverted or extroverted depends on what they designate as the object of inquiry/focus. All the introverted functions focus on internal states as the object of inquiry, while extroverted functions focus on external states (states of affairs).
 
Yes what Dragon has said that you aren't lacking any functions. Being INFJ just means you use your intuition in introverted manner a lot, and feeling in extraverted manner. But it doesn't mean that you have no Ne or Fi.

TeFi and FeTI I think are really just one function, a judging function, that references two value systems:
T-value system (called logic) places value on oneself and values competition with others - most men and 20% of women test in this category
F-value system (called morals) places value on other people and values cooperation with others - most women and 20% of men test in this category
Of course most of use reference both value systems, just that T-types tend to reference one value system more and F-types another. These two value systems are opposing to each other. And I think this is responsible for a lot of moral conflict people experience in their lives.

As far as N and S goes I have trouble seeing them as one function in the same manner as I see F/T are. Perhaps they aren't or perhaps I am just not seeing the connection between them.
 
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I'm usually INFJ but sometimes score INTJ, depending on what's going on in my life or mind. Anyhow, I'm very emotional and opinionated but feel and think in an introverted way, unless I get so worked up over something that I behave in an 'extroverted' way whereby my emotions will spill over, or I'll voice my strong opinions to anyone who will listen. I'm a peaceful activist but rarely find it helpful to talk everyone's ear off about what I'm passionate about. Case in point, it seems unreasonable to divide F and T into introversion and extroversion because it depends on the context. It seems too many people are divided on this point so perhaps F and T aren't able to be slotted into introversion/extroversion.
 
88chaz88 said:
Try telling any of our ENTP's that.
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True... and untrue. I find that in a day to day basis I tend to have bi-polar points of extroversion and introversion.
Don't get me wrong, I need other people to bounce ideas off of, to talk to, to scheme with, to socialize and party with.
However I cannot have this all the time. I will also simply get irritable sometimes and want to be alone with my thoughts. When this happens I will give the people around me fair warning that I am just in a mood to think to myself. People who know me well will leave me alone for a while. I have patience, but if I am continually interrupted by someone else's chattiness I might bite a bit and ask if they can't just be quiet. >.<

This need for moments of relative solitude (if no one is talking to me or expects me to interact with them I count it as solitude, even if many people are in the room) makes me a bit more understanding of introverted types though, I think.

Most of my boyfriends have been introverts who were later surprised at my ability to just sit in peace and not chat when the moment called for it. From the way I act and interact in public most assumed that this was the way I constantly was or needed to be. Not so.

I find that my need for "introverted time" is about equal to my need for "extroverted time." It's simply that when out with people I am quite extroverted, love conversation, and lack almost all forms of shyness. When I am back at my apartment or with my family I also love to talk - but I also need my quiet time where I just exist in my head or in a book.
 
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