Anyone met a Twin Flame? | Page 7 | INFJ Forum

Anyone met a Twin Flame?

When discussions get into ‘its not healthy to put your happiness in another person’s hands’, I think this comes from too logical a place. No one lives like this in a deep, romantic loving way.
None of us are saying this - in all successful relationships it's exactly what we do. But that means a sacrifice - we each give up part of ourselves for the other, in mutual respect for the individuality of the other. That is at the heart of the deep love of a lifetime partnership, and it means that we can each see the other as they really are. It's very different from seeking our own salvation through another, which is always a burden too great for the other human to bear on their own.

I don't say these things lightly and theoretically - I have the scars, though what I did was not expected of me, so it's not the same - I was an awful rescuer. But I regret nothing - if you meet someone who needs to make that sacrifice for you and is willing to accept it, and has the depth of inner spiritual support to see them through the hard times, then go for it, but it comes with enormous baggage for both of you.
 
I think one difference between your experiences and mine, is my interest is not based on sexual attraction. It’s mainly cerebral (mind/soul). Also, other than her age, I don’t consider her out of my league in attractiveness or intelligence. It’s not an unrealistic fantasy thing. I’ve seen prettier girls/women. And ones with sexier bodies.
I'm sure there are lots of difference. The way I felt in this situation though mirrors much of what you are talking about. After this incident I had several that were romantic in nature, with the same level of connection, intense feelings and level of obsession. None of them were necessarily "out of my league" except for the fact that other person was clearly not demonstrating consistent interest and honesty. It's very much this hot/cold "please love me!!! I know you do, I'll get you to feel comfortable enough to show it!"

But either the other person isn't interested and the cues are being misread out of a desperation for connection, or the other person is not emotionally available and that will not change if you win them over. Why would you want to put yourself in a relationship where somebody can never give themselves fully to you? Where somebody runs away and hides? Perhaps that's why I don't understand this situation because my understanding has been that people don't really change, and if they do it is because they made the decision to change and it is not because of another person helping them change. So if you get with somebody thinking their behavior will be anything different than when you got with them or before, you're really setting yourself up to keep wishing this person was somebody else. Wouldn't it be easier to connect with somebody who is just as eager to connect with you who doesn't run away? So what if they are not your mirror image? Is there only one possibility that is satisfying and if it doesn't happen then connection with anybody else isn't worth it?

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I don't know your life and haven't lived in your skin. I am only speaking based on my own life which was pretty miserable up until I figured some things out. For whatever reason the way you speak of this reminds me so much of how I used to think and what situations I found myself in. I didn't use the same language to explain it but I'm almost certain I felt similar feelings. That doesn't mean it's the same and you know, I can't even tell you I found a "solution" or "better way"... It was only the case for me. I realize that when I was in that headspace, people tried to talk me out of it or point out different things and I just didn't believe it. Why would I have? My personal experience outweighed the opinion of others by far. And so I respect that with you, and I really hope you understand that I am passionate about this topic because of me, not because I think you are wrong or need to think differently. I respect your journey and personal autonomy.

I wish I had met you back when I was going through all of that because it would have been nice to talk to somebody about the feelings. I understand why you made this thread. Not to get people to tell you different opinions but to find others who relate to the feelings. It really took over my whole life I felt super out of control but it was the only thing that mattered to me, the only thing that could make me whole and matter. Those moments of connection were so important to me because my whole life I was just alone and rejected for no real good reason. I had thought I was inherently flawed in some way, but really I just was abused as a kid and other predators can spot an abused kid so it felt like everyone hated me when really people saw that I was an easy target.

That's why I can see in some sense why this is being tied to a soul journey and the idea of working on your own stuff as part of it... Because that was part of what was happening to me when I saw these people who I had intense connection with, I could see myself in them, I could see my own wounds and strengths, and through them as a mirror I was actually able to build myself up and overcame a lot of the baggage I was carrying around that was ruining my potential.

I think it is through human connection that we are about to fully see ourselves and only then be able to change. Others can't make us change but love is a powerful motivator and it turns out most people will do just about anything to keep the people they love. Overcome addictions, change nasty behavior, the list goes on and on.

So I think you'll be ok. You have to realize we really don't know the whole story... And we never will. My fear for you is what I feared for me (which is why I ended up working so hard to pull myself out of whatever was happening to me) is that I would get stuck on somebody who doesn't actually love me back and just waste my potential in that area. I think what actually made me see that possiblity was when I dated this guy who also believed in twin flames and he swept me off my feet then dumped me out of the blue because he said he was still in love with his twin flame. I knew this person he was talking about she she did not want to be with him. He couldn't let go though and it kept ruining all possible relationships because he refused to look at what was in front of him- he only wanted this fantasy. I guess we will have to wait and see if it happens but I don't think it will for him. For me personally I felt that was a wasted life. Maybe it isn't for you. And maybe now you understand some of the life context that gave me the perspective that I have. This whole tumultuous relationship thing makes me sad because what if you could just have a *good* relationship without this hot and cold stuff? Do you think those types of relationships aren't as good or not possible? Honestly some of the twin soul stuff seems like attachment issues of anxious/avoidant attachment people... This push pull relationship that is addictive but never satisfies anybody. Having a secure calm relationship is way way better. But there must be some appeal to the friction and chaos of this type of relationship.
 
None of us are saying this - in all successful relationships it's exactly what we do. But that means a sacrifice - we each give up part of ourselves for the other, in mutual respect for the individuality of the other. That is at the heart of the deep love of a lifetime partnership, and it means that we can each see the other as they really are. It's very different from seeking our own salvation through another, which is always a burden too great for the other human to bear on their own.

I don't say these things lightly and theoretically - I have the scars, though what I did was not expected of me, so it's not the same - I was an awful rescuer. But I regret nothing - if you meet someone who needs to make that sacrifice for you and is willing to accept it, and has the depth of inner spiritual support to see them through the hard times, then go for it, but it comes with enormous baggage for both of you.

This is relatable. We've both been in long-term relationships for 30+ years and seen the euphoria, steadiness, and struggle.

In my experience, meaningful relationships are more about sacrifice than fulfillment. I bring my fulfillment to the table hoping it will be a catalyst for his fulfillment. I cannot fulfill him. Of course, I am happier when he is happy and struggle when he is miserable, but my happiness doesn't and can't depend on him. It's up to me.
My SO has depression. It was caused by the meaning of his life and everything he personally worked for getting destroyed. His fulfillment was destroyed.

I've met several people in my life with whom I've shared short, blissful moments that ended in agony, tears, and mental and emotional whirlwinds. Knowing love for 30+ years, I would not call this experience love, nor say our souls were entwined or that we (shudders) completed each other. Those moments were important and did help shape me, though. The only cure for this is accepting that every relationship gives the exact amount of meaning it should, whether short or long and if it is short we must walk on with grace. Every time I've failed at grace in these situations, I see how wrong I was with wide eyes later.
 
I'm sure there are lots of difference. The way I felt in this situation though mirrors much of what you are talking about. After this incident I had several that were romantic in nature, with the same level of connection, intense feelings and level of obsession. None of them were necessarily "out of my league" except for the fact that other person was clearly not demonstrating consistent interest and honesty. It's very much this hot/cold "please love me!!! I know you do, I'll get you to feel comfortable enough to show it!"

But either the other person isn't interested and the cues are being misread out of a desperation for connection, or the other person is not emotionally available and that will not change if you win them over. Why would you want to put yourself in a relationship where somebody can never give themselves fully to you? Where somebody runs away and hides? Perhaps that's why I don't understand this situation because my understanding has been that people don't really change, and if they do it is because they made the decision to change and it is not because of another person helping them change. So if you get with somebody thinking their behavior will be anything different than when you got with them or before, you're really setting yourself up to keep wishing this person was somebody else. Wouldn't it be easier to connect with somebody who is just as eager to connect with you who doesn't run away? So what if they are not your mirror image? Is there only one possibility that is satisfying and if it doesn't happen then connection with anybody else isn't worth it?

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I don't know your life and haven't lived in your skin. I am only speaking based on my own life which was pretty miserable up until I figured some things out. For whatever reason the way you speak of this reminds me so much of how I used to think and what situations I found myself in. I didn't use the same language to explain it but I'm almost certain I felt similar feelings. That doesn't mean it's the same and you know, I can't even tell you I found a "solution" or "better way"... It was only the case for me. I realize that when I was in that headspace, people tried to talk me out of it or point out different things and I just didn't believe it. Why would I have? My personal experience outweighed the opinion of others by far. And so I respect that with you, and I really hope you understand that I am passionate about this topic because of me, not because I think you are wrong or need to think differently. I respect your journey and personal autonomy.

I wish I had met you back when I was going through all of that because it would have been nice to talk to somebody about the feelings. I understand why you made this thread. Not to get people to tell you different opinions but to find others who relate to the feelings. It really took over my whole life I felt super out of control but it was the only thing that mattered to me, the only thing that could make me whole and matter. Those moments of connection were so important to me because my whole life I was just alone and rejected for no real good reason. I had thought I was inherently flawed in some way, but really I just was abused as a kid and other predators can spot an abused kid so it felt like everyone hated me when really people saw that I was an easy target.

That's why I can see in some sense why this is being tied to a soul journey and the idea of working on your own stuff as part of it... Because that was part of what was happening to me when I saw these people who I had intense connection with, I could see myself in them, I could see my own wounds and strengths, and through them as a mirror I was actually able to build myself up and overcame a lot of the baggage I was carrying around that was ruining my potential.

I think it is through human connection that we are about to fully see ourselves and only then be able to change. Others can't make us change but love is a powerful motivator and it turns out most people will do just about anything to keep the people they love. Overcome addictions, change nasty behavior, the list goes on and on.

So I think you'll be ok. You have to realize we really don't know the whole story... And we never will. My fear for you is what I feared for me (which is why I ended up working so hard to pull myself out of whatever was happening to me) is that I would get stuck on somebody who doesn't actually love me back and just waste my potential in that area. I think what actually made me see that possiblity was when I dated this guy who also believed in twin flames and he swept me off my feet then dumped me out of the blue because he said he was still in love with his twin flame. I knew this person he was talking about she she did not want to be with him. He couldn't let go though and it kept ruining all possible relationships because he refused to look at what was in front of him- he only wanted this fantasy. I guess we will have to wait and see if it happens but I don't think it will for him. For me personally I felt that was a wasted life. Maybe it isn't for you. And maybe now you understand some of the life context that gave me the perspective that I have. This whole tumultuous relationship thing makes me sad because what if you could just have a *good* relationship without this hot and cold stuff? Do you think those types of relationships aren't as good or not possible? Honestly some of the twin soul stuff seems like attachment issues of anxious/avoidant attachment people... This push pull relationship that is addictive but never satisfies anybody. Having a secure calm relationship is way way better. But there must be some appeal to the friction and chaos of this type of relationship.
Great reply many thanks. I know it comes from your heart with the best of intentions.
I find it sad that relationships in general seem in crisis at present. You make a good point that the behaviour of the other person isn’t likely to change. I think she is a nice person but maybe not my kind of nice if you know what I mean. I am honestly open minded about what might happen. The TF thing is objectively interesting. I think my greatest hope is that she becomes a platonic friend given the age gap, but who knows, I guess not many young women would want that with an older guy. Going forward, I’m just going to see her at badminton and be polite but not flirty etc. I didn’t go last night, probably will next week. She’ll probably just ignore me.

I feel for you in what you have told me. I’m sure you deserve much better than what you have got. Yes, I’m sure we’d get on really well if we met then or now, and could support each other. ATB and thanks.
 
ogQZ9PS.png
 
Nature has not made us to be happy on our own, except for brief periods. Note someone claiming a soulmate can be wrong, and TW is not the same as soulmate.

Also, the experience of falling in love is not easy to rationalise no matter what anyone says. It can easily be categorised as a mild? form of mental illness, but it is still real and can give nothing but positive things. I suspect the feelings are different for different people, so the same word limits all understandings via discussions. When discussions get into ‘its not healthy to put your happiness in another person’s hands’, I think this comes from too logical a place. No one lives like this in a deep, romantic loving way.


No matter how any of this gets couched, minimized, professionalized: DO NOT QUESTION YOURSELF! You have had the experience, no one else on this list (but me) has. Not dis-similar to them trying to describe what it is like to do 200MPH down the Mulsanne straight.......if you have not had the experience you can't describe it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David Nelson
None of us are saying this - in all successful relationships it's exactly what we do. But that means a sacrifice - we each give up part of ourselves for the other, in mutual respect for the individuality of the other. That is at the heart of the deep love of a lifetime partnership, and it means that we can each see the other as they really are. It's very different from seeking our own salvation through another, which is always a burden too great for the other human to bear on their own.

I don't say these things lightly and theoretically - I have the scars, though what I did was not expected of me, so it's not the same - I was an awful rescuer. But I regret nothing - if you meet someone who needs to make that sacrifice for you and is willing to accept it, and has the depth of inner spiritual support to see them through the hard times, then go for it, but it comes with enormous baggage for both of you.

Except in this situation there is no one sacrificing anything. If the both do their work (unlikely) both GAIN! Where did David suggest he was seeking his salvation thru her?
 
DO NOT QUESTION YOURSELF!

Yeah that's pretty much what everyone does.
Everyone that ends up dead in a ditch anyway.

You have had the experience, no one else on this list (but me) has.

Of course yes, you are the prime authority on mostly everything.
No one has ever experienced such things and gained the supreme knowledge that you hold.

Or alternatively,
Questioning one's self is pretty important in self development and we are often very wrong about the things we form based on our own limited personal knowledge.
And others have pieces of valuable information that we should regularly absorb and integrate in order to grow.

But then again
I don't play well with others and need to be silenced.
 
Yeah that's pretty much what everyone does.
Everyone that ends up dead in a ditch anyway.



Of course yes, you are the prime authority on mostly everything.
No one has ever experienced such things and gained the supreme knowledge that you hold.

Or alternatively,
Questioning one's self is pretty important in self development and we are often very wrong about the things we form based on our own limited personal knowledge.
And others have pieces of valuable information that we should regularly absorb and integrate in order to grow.

But then again
You are doing what you accused INFJs of doing in another thread (taking things too literally)
‘Do not question yourself’ was meant here as trust your instincts, NOT, don’t ever question what you think.
 
You are doing what you accused INFJs of doing in another thread (taking things too literally)
‘Do not question yourself’ was meant here as trust your instincts, NOT, don’t ever question what you think.

I know larry pretty well and what he intends.
I'm speaking hyperbolically, which I often do.
 
‘Do not question yourself’ was meant here as trust your instincts, NOT, don’t ever question what you think.

Shit was in all caps, yo. Shouting is a piss-poor way to communicate any degree of subtlety, much less communicate at all.

Plus, I recommend you read @Wyote ’s post again, because there’s enough juicy nuggets for a wisdom smack snack.

Cheers,
Ian
 
But what if your feelings are running on empty and you feel dead inside? Totally unmotivated to do anything.
I think this may be qualified as a heartbreak. Not to compare apples to oranges, but I myself get heartbroken over badly cooked seafood and other weightier disappointments. Surely, connection in absentia would also hurt. It's okay to be in pain about something. We also then conjure the appropriate coping mechanisms to grow around it. The processes can be different for every individual, but with the right mental and emotional calisthenics, it is not insurmountable.
 
I empathize with what Larry's trying to do here. David's experience has been disputed and/or questioned by the majority of folks on this thread when the intention was probably more along the lines of finding others who have had this experience and getting validation. The tone of this thread was probably influenced by the fact that an advice thread had already been made about the situation and I personally feel I was guilty of continuing that thread rather than just engaging in a theoretical/experienced based discussion on twin flames.

Given, saying you don't believe in something is valuable to a conversation too but I can understand why somebody making a thread like this might want a different reception.
 
‘Do not question yourself’ was meant here as trust your instincts

Also you should probably question your instincts, so my whole post shouldn't even be questioned here.
I'm kind of offended because
1. You don't even understand or belong in an interjection here
2. My point is entirely valid

Questioning your instincts is important.
 
Questioning one's self is pretty important absolutely essential in self development...

Questioning your instincts is important the difference between the life well lived and playing the fool for others’ benefit.

No need to go soft on ‘em, lulz. :p

I once heard someone say “the unexamined life is not worth living.”

I agree, but I may be biased after having shuffled my own deck a couple of hundred times. :)

Cheers,
Ian
 
I think this may be qualified as a heartbreak. Not to compare apples to oranges, but I myself get heartbroken over badly cooked seafood and other weightier disappointments. Surely, connection in absentia would also hurt. It's okay to be in pain about something. We also then conjure the appropriate coping mechanisms to grow around it. The processes can be different for every individual, but with the right mental and emotional calisthenics, it is not insurmountable.
I was feeling a bit better today. I actually went out and did some work. I have plenty of projects to get on with on my own. I feel now I will cope, although this may just be a blip.
Yes, some of the doubting and dismissive posts are very insensitive I feel.
 
Also you should probably question your instincts, so my whole post shouldn't even be questioned here.
I'm kind of offended because
1. You don't even understand or belong in an interjection here
2. My point is entirely valid

Questioning your instincts is important.
Taking things too literally again and assuming what Larry meant. This is a forum not a discussion between 2 people, so I am allowed to interject. Your point is only valid insofar as it is interpreted or as the person who wrote it meant it. As a statement in isolation, it is highly open to different interpretations.
I’m also offended by you saying my thread about non-INFJ opinions of INFJs was stupid or similar words (plus the allusion this was an INFJ trait in general). Pretty down on INFJs aren’t we?!