Am I INTJ? INFJ? Something else entirely? Please help. :)

Ok, so, I admit I came to this forum with the primary purpose of using ya'll. ;-) I'm stuck on the question as to whether I'm an INTJ or an INFJ, and I'm hoping to get some input here.

A little background on me. I'm a 25 year old graduate student studying Economics. Though I have bachelors degrees in math, computer science and economics, I went to economics for my graduate studies because I thought it was the most geared towards actually changing the world.

I'm happy to answer absolutely any question about my personality, or my experiences; nothing is too personal when it comes to solving this mystery in my mind.

I'm pretty damn sure on the I, N, and J, but I'm happy to answer questions about those as well.


Why I originally thought that I was INTJ



* I loathe smalltalk, and the telephone (an engine of wretched impersonality,) and would rather sit in companionable silence than talk about trivialities.

* I was all computers, science, and math growing up, though I did a lot of reading fiction and non-fiction as well. Now I've started branching out into some more artistic hobbies as well, though.

* I have difficulty understanding or accepting most social rituals, unless I can see a reason behind them. I perfectly able to participate in them, and I do because I don't want to hurt anyone without good reason, but I don't get them.

* I get very annoyed when it seems to be that people are allowing their emotions to make their decisions for them. I feel things very, very intensely, but I struggle to not let these emotions control me.

* I like measurements, tables, rational systems. I want to quantify things, to put them to order in my head. I love predicting quantities, especially when I'm right.

* I love debate. I intensely savor instances where I am able to deconstruct or destroy the logic of my opponents' argument. When I am debating something, all that matters is the argument, the truth of the matter, the logic. In this state, I don't care one whit about personal considerations, or the emotions of those involved. I view debate as something in which personalities are set aside.

* While I am loathe to hurt anyone, I have a very hard time letting anything that seems illogical to me pass without questioning it. I'm almost incapable of it, in fact. I want to know why.



Why I am starting to think that I might be INFJ

* When I'm not in direct conflict with someone, such as in a debate, I put a lot of thought into avoiding hurting them emotionally; it's something I avoid stringently.

* I empathize, though do not necessarily sympathize, with just about everyone, whether I like it or not. This includes fictional characters, sometimes to an absurd degree. I am often unable to watch television or movies where a character is having strong emotional reactions, most especially embarrassment and/or shame. I'll literally leave the room/theater in many cases when I can tell such reactions are imminent.

* I feel responsible for the emotions of those close to me, even when their negative emotions are not my fault in any way, and I derive immense satisfaction from helping to improve their emotional state.

* I find myself completely unable to justify the means with the ends, even when it makes sense. For example, recently, when arguing with my INTP friend about North Korea, he felt that appeasement policies were justifiable in slowing the development of a nuclear weapons program. For my part, however, I can only focus on the immense amount of pain, abasement, starvation and suffering that Kim Jong-Il has visited on his people, and the situation they are in. It makes me actually nauseous if I focus on it for too long. I can't see appeasement policies as anything but a betrayal of these people, no matter how much logical sense they might make. I don't feel that any level of corruption or abuse is acceptable, nor do I deal well with people defending something as "the best of bad options." We'll find something better, damnit.

* To take a brief point from typelogic.com, I often fantasize about getting revenge on those who victimize the defenseless, and the concept of "poetic justice" is very appealing to me.

* I'm big on maintaining harmony in a group setting. I like hosting small gatherings and, as the host, am always very focused on drawing everyone into the experience.

* Though I don't claim to have any great skill at it, I enjoy writing poetry, especially expressing an idea or thought in poetic form rather than prose, something that's gotten some complaints against me at INTJforum.

* I'll often feel strongly that something is (morally) wrong, without being able to immediately articulate why.


Things that don't entirely fit with INFJness

* I don't get "gut" feelings out of nowhere, something which I've heard many INFJs claim that they do get. I often get "vibes" off of people when interacting with them, but I assume that this is due to signals that I am subconsciously noticing.

* I have no belief or inclination towards the supernatural, psychic phenomenon, etc., which is something that many profiles have indicated that INFJs tend toward (though maybe this is inaccurate.) I am a strict materialist in my view of the universe.

* I think that feelings are important, desirable, and often sublime. They are to be sought after in many cases. However, I don't think they can be used to justify things.

 

Can I ask how you can tell this? I'm no expert on Jungian Function Theory, not yet at least.

Okay, so, let me make sure I have this right. Te has to do with comparing things with external evidence, do they work, etc, right? Ti is examining the internal consistency and logic of a system? If that is true, I think I'm pretty decent at both, but the Ti is probably stronger. I always attack the arguments of my opponents in debate, for example, by attacking the consistency of their argument, rather than comparing it to real world examples.

Fe v. Fi I'm less clear on. Fe is picking up on the emotions of others, I think, but there's more to it than that, right? I'm afraid I don't really understand what Fi is, which makes it difficult to evaluate whether I use it or not. Any insights in that area?

 

Always glad to contribute to insomnia!

This has been my current thinking on the matter, but I didn't want to bias the immediate responses by stating so in my initial post.

I also recall reading that INFJs are the most rational of the NTs, and I can believe it.

Is it possible for the strength of your tertiary function to displace your secondary? For example, could I be an INFJ who actually used Ti more than Fe?

Oh, yeah, I definitely have that get away from the world for protection thing going on.

No, it was helpful. I don't really get what Fi is though, I must admit. Can you explain it at all?

 

Fair enough.

Ah, I see. I'd have to say, then, that my Ti is probably stronger than Fi, though the latter is by no means un-utilized.

Yes... I just was reading a thread in another section about other people leaving the room, leaving theaters when the characters are in embarassing situations, as I do. Ugh! I can't stand it. My empathy with powerful emotions is... well, overwhelming is the word, many times, yes, sometimes imparing my functionality.

I think I agree. I was fairly inclined to call myself INFJ before I came here, but I wanted to get some opinions from INFJs as well. I think I'll wait for, hopefully, a bit more input before making it official, though.

Ok, I see.

Makes sense. Mmm... machines.

Good to know.

Oh, I have. I have well over 10,000 posts there, so lots of people chimed in. About half thought I was an INTJ with a well-developed F, and the other half thought I was an INFJ with a well-developed T. Though, as I'm one of the most known posters on that forum, I'm concerned that there are strong, preconceived notions about me that may interefere with an objective analysis there.

 

Hehe. Thanks for the input, Lurker. (Lurker and I know each other from elsewhere, for those confused by my newness to posting here. )

 

Okay.

Decent, for the first, not sure for the second.

1) Not that great at it, I don't think, though not horrible. I usually end up taking on too much of a project on myself in group situations. I often take on leadership positions because no one else is inclined to, however.

2) ... No, not really. I think I want to be a professor, and teach, but I agonized over even that forever, and I'm still not sure. There's still some part of me that is unsatisfied with that, though, but I'm not sure what would satisfy that part... if that makes any sense.

EDIT: I know that I want a family, and children. That's all I'm certain of.

 

Hehe, no, the more work I have to do the harder it is for me to get started on it. I start worrying about little things that don't really matter, like organizing my desk or apartment, or reflecting on the past and/or daydreaming.

It's never happened, actually... I'm not sure how I would react, to be honest. I'd probably be very hurt, though I wouldn't show it.

I've always been a very high performer in every area of academia in which I've participated. It was not, and is not, my intention to use this thread as a bragging platform, but in case it is relevant to sorting this out: In secondary education, I placed in several national competitions for mathematics and computer science. In college, I won accolades/awards for my ability in economics, and my academic writing ability, and have been at the top of my class in economics and mathematics for many years.

In short, it's always come very naturally to me; I love the way math fits together, especially. The only reason I did not continue to graduate school in math, rather than in economics, is because it seemed too removed from people/affecting the world.

 

I want to understand myself. It's not so much that my MBTI type is a part of my identity, as it is a useful tool for understanding my identity. I don't really get myself, and I'd like to.

I prefer black and white answers, definitely, though I'm not fully averse to gray.

Piano, singing and poetry. A very little bit of fiction writing.

It's not so much that I want to restrain the emotions, as I want to keep them from affecting my decisions. It's important to me that I make the "best" decisions, and I think that being emotional can interfere with that, for me at least.

I only discovered MBTI in January. I joined the INTJ forum and, unlike here posted, a lot on it. I almost immediately questioned whether I was T or F, and there were a few threads about it there. The participants of INTJf, however, were able to convince me that I was "T". In retrospect, some INTJs would be biased towards convincing me that I was T, and the same might apply to some INFJs and F.

So, really, it's been a question that's never gone away since I've known of MBTI.

I've taken several online tests. Two INFJ, three INTJ as I recall. On the ones with numerical results, the T v. F number was always very close to the center.

 

Maybe, but I don't really think I've subjugated my emotions in any way. I go out of my way to feel emotions, intentionally watching sad movies, or listening to inspiring music, often crying in either case. I let joy at life bubble up in me unrestrained, usually letting it out with a laugh. I don't disallow myself emotions in any way, I just try to make sure that the decisions I make are not influenced by them.

I don't think it's accurate to speculate that intelligence can hinder personality. Now, what might, theoretically, have hindered the development of my personality is having focused on a certain type of academia, starting with "gifted" programs in primary school: math, sciences, computers, etc. That's a big might, however.

I would argue that the more even your use of all functions is, the better, but I am far from an expert as well.