Admission of Guilt in Lebanon Hariri trial?

[just me]

Are the current actions in Lebanon's government against Hariri a sign of admission of guilt in the murder years ago? Are the actions taking place only to make the trial more difficult? Is this the formation of the new northern front to kill the Israeli population? Are people too naive or too weak to admit the truth or do anything about the situation? Do they not know it will lead to many, many more deaths later? Where are the people's representatives? Have the other leaders given in to more money and power over what is best for their country and the entire Middle East?

I'll stop there. Anyone wishing to comment can please search for the current affairs there. I could have peace there given the opportunities they have had and do have. Why does the cost in blood have to continue rising?

 

[bamf]

The whole tribunal seems to politicized that it's hard to know who's actually at fault. The whole government of Lebanon is so messed up also that it's hard to know if this is because of the expected accusations of the tribunal, or if it's really what Hezbollah says it is; a precedent to help form a new working government.

The assassination could have been at the hands of Syria, Hezbollah, Israel, or (don your tin-foil hats time) the United States. I highly doubt that this is the mobilization of a death squadron prepping for attack on Israel.

 

[poshlost]

It's much more complicated than that. The west needs to stop labeling Hizbollah and its allies as the villains and the US allies (Hariri jr. and co.) as the heroes to see the situation for what it is, with all its complications, and all its historical subtleties.

Your questioning of the Lebanese people's motives are vague, you're mentioning 'the truth', and 'not knowing' some obvious fact that you know it seems...I'd be happy to respond if you informed the rest of us what is the truth you know.

 

[muir]

Gas reserves have been discovered off the Haifa coast. There is a dispute between Israel and Lebanon over rights.

Israel receives $6 billion in 'aid' from the US every year, whilst Lebanon is heavily in debt.

The Lebanese government is divided and one half is pro-western. Will the pro-western half fight Lebanon's corner in the dispute over the gas or will it kow-tow to the US-Israel alliance?

 

[just me]

Lebanon has already beckoned with the powers that be over the gas Israel and its partners are drilling for and found. Iran sends quite a sum of "aid" to Lebanon yearly, though I would ask is it to their government?

copied from CIA World Factbook

Economy - overview:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publica...Name=Lebanon&countryCode=le&regionCode=me&#le​

Lebanon has a free-market economy and a strong laissez-faire commercial tradition. The government does not restrict foreign investment; however, the investment climate suffers from red tape, corruption, arbitrary licensing decisions, high taxes, tariffs, and fees, archaic legislation, and weak intellectual property rights. The Lebanese economy is service-oriented; main growth sectors include banking and tourism. The 1975-90 civil war seriously damaged Lebanon's economic infrastructure, cut national output by half, and all but ended Lebanon's position as a Middle Eastern entrepot and banking hub. In the years since, Lebanon has rebuilt much of its war-torn physical and financial infrastructure by borrowing heavily - mostly from domestic banks. In an attempt to reduce the ballooning national debt, the Rafiq HARIRI government in 2000 began an austerity program, reining in government expenditures, increasing revenue collection, and passing legislation to privatize state enterprises, but economic and financial reform initiatives stalled and public debt continued to grow despite receipt of more than $2 billion in bilateral assistance at the 2002 Paris II Donors Conference. The Israeli-Hizballah conflict in July-August 2006 caused an estimated $3.6 billion in infrastructure damage, and prompted international donors to pledge nearly $1 billion in recovery and reconstruction assistance. Donors met again in January 2007 at the Paris III Donor Conference and pledged more than $7.5 billion to Lebanon for development projects and budget support, conditioned on progress on Beirut's fiscal reform and privatization program. An 18-month political stalemate and sporadic sectarian and political violence hampered economic activity, particularly tourism, retail sales, and investment, until the new government was formed in July 2008. Political stability following the Doha Accord of May 2008 helped boost tourism and, together with a strong banking sector, enabled real GDP growth of 7% per year in 2009-10 despite a slowdown in the region.


GDP (purchasing power parity):

https://www.cia.gov/library/publica...Name=Lebanon&countryCode=le&regionCode=me&#le​

$58.65 billion (2010 est.)
country comparison to the world: 87
$54.71 billion (2009 est.)
$51.18 billion (2008 est.)
note: data are in 2010 US dollars

Surely you know Hassan Nasrallah?

 

[muir]

Ahhh banking rears its ugly head again. Funny how Hariri is a billionaire hey! I wonder what he loves most in life? Very much part of the machine.

The 'hariri government' began a program of 'privatisation'.....same old story isn't it? A story where private interests take control of what belongs to the people, charges them to use it and gets them in debt to them (when will people wake up?!!!)

Of course the US and Israel love private wealth, because their leaders own all their countries wealth leaving the US and Israel rife with poverty

'The Israel-Hezbollah conflict'....that should really read: The Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which they killed 1,300 people, mostly Lebanese civilians and left large parts of Lebanon uninhabitable due to all the cluster bombs that have been dumped there by the Israeli airforce

Now does that seem like the behaviour of a country that wants peace with its neighbours?

Israel could easily bring about a two state solution if they wanted to but they will not budge. The US could make Israel budge by cutting off the $6 billion it pays to Israel each year but it doesn't does it?

No the US likes to pretend to the citizens of the US, in its media, that it is impartial and working towards peace in the middle east....what a sick joke when it actually funds the violence in the middle east!

It seems that everyone around the world knows that the US is responsible except for some people actually living in the US who listen to their media, which is designed to shape their perceptions.

You quote from the CIA, but the CIA have been the biggest fomentors of trouble around the world for the last 60 years...no kidding

They are quite simply sick. I have elsewhere posted links about some of the activities of the CIA. Here is a link to info about some of the experimentation they have done on US citizens often without their knowledge (there's more links at the bottom of the page with lots more interesting info):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

If this link doesn't work, go on wikipedia and type in 'unethcial human experimentation in the United States'

 

[poshlost]

The 'hariri government' began a program of 'privatisation'.....same old story isn't it? A story where private interests take control of what belongs to the people, charges them to use it and gets them in debt to them (when will people wake up?!!!)

The funniest part about that is that privatization meant that what once belonged to the people now belongs to the Hariri family and other "prominent" billionaire families in Lebanon. From telecom to downtown beirut, that's right, downtown Beirut belongs to a private Hariri & co. company.

 

[just me]

The funniest part about that is that privatization meant that what once belonged to the people now belongs to the Hariri family and other "prominent" billionaire families in Lebanon. From telecom to downtown beirut, that's right, downtown Beirut belongs to a private Hariri & co. company.

It wasn't the Hariri family that transferred over 6 billion dollars overnight to UAE banks that owned the rights to airtime and tele towers when news of the tribunal was made public.

Is it wrong to want justice served for the murder of one's Father?

How much $$$ did Hexbollah cost Lebanon when they started the last war with Israel? Israel was careful to not harm government safehouses and go after Hexbollah targets. Iran's leadership has made it known verbally worldwide their intent when it comes to Israel. Why do you think they have so much invested in military ordnance aimed at Israel in the arena? Why do you think they want control of Lebanon?

 

[muir]

Hezbollah didn't start the conflict

Israel started it, used the media to make it look like it was hezbollah, but really what they wanted to do was go in and destroy Lebanon's infrastructure and that's what they did. Their news reportage is used as justification of their actions

Israel was not careful about its targets AT ALL. It destroyed infrastructure, killed many civilians and left unexploded ordinance all over large parts of the country...nothing careful there...vindictive yes...careful no

Why do Iran have so much invested in the middle east you ask?

It's very simple....its their home. Is it the home of the US? NO

They feel massively threatened by the Israel/US alliance which has proved it has no problem with invading countries in order to secure their oil supply.

Iran wants to trade its oil in Euros not Dollars and that is making it very unpopular with the US.

Iran also sympathises with the Palestineans who have been driven off their land by the US funded Israelis

 

[just me]

Misinformation. History tells who started the war, and only reading between the lines allows why. The destruction was wanted.

Think there may have been even a Syrian general transferred 7 billion that same day. UAE does not allow UN fund-freezing.

 

[muir]

Who writes 'history'?

Look its all just political manouvering

Israel wants to stir things up...the question is why? What do they want to achieve?

Are they looking for another excuse to invade Lebanon as part of the grand plan to create a unified Israel with no Palestinean parts.

The people in control are not working towards creating a two nation solution they want an Israel devoid of palestineans.

Not all Israelis agree with such an aggressive approach.

The point i'm making is that all the aggression is coming from Israel, backed by the US. Now you might see that differently, but ask yourself which countries are the ones that keep invading other countries......its the US and Israel....they keep invading other countries....they are the aggressors

You have spoken about the transferal of 13 billion dollars in two seperate transferrals can you prove these astronomical figures?

 

[just me]

If I were to make that up, don't you think I would have come up with something more believeable? There were many other transfers. The courts will decide what is admissable and what is not. You can read about it after it is history.

Funny how Israel is the only country in the Middle East accepting the Palestinians.

 

[bamf]

Funny how Israel is the only country in the Middle East accepting the Palestinians.

You're joking, right? There's nearly 2,000,000 Palestinian refugees living in Jordan alone. They wouldn't be refugees if it weren't for Israel.

 

[muir]

If I were to make that up, don't you think I would have come up with something more believeable? There were many other transfers. The courts will decide what is admissable and what is not. You can read about it after it is history.

Funny how Israel is the only country in the Middle East accepting the Palestinians.

There are 2 million Palestinean refugees in Jordan alone. Lebanon has nearly half a million:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee

Israel isn't accepting the Palestineans that's what all the conflict is about, but it was Palestinean land anyway!

How 'history' is presented depends on the bias of the person presenting it

If i had to guess i would guess that the source of a lot of your info is from christian zionist sources, who are following some idea they have in their heads, which they think the bible justifies, which is that Israel should be exclusively jewish

That isn't going to happen though is it....not without a fight, so it would be better if they found a way of dividing or sharing the land in such a way that both jews and palestinians are given a homeland. Until this happens there will be unending conflict and other countries with axes to grind like the US or Iran will get involved and use it as their own geo-political battleground at the expense of the poor souls who live there

 

[just me]

Guess it all comes down to where the real estate is, not the Palestinians, that is wanted for a state. Jordan will not offer them land. Everyone wants Jerusalem. I do not see it as on the chopping block.

The Hariri murder and the Lebanon War are all part of the war to kill Jews.....civilians or whatever they can. Turkey challenges Israel on their blockade, so the Israelis are now having to destroy where the cement and concrete are being used to house missiles.....the reason for the blockade. I will hate to see the day this is not settled peacefully. It seems to be getting closer by the day.

Peace would be simple enough if people would leave the Israelis alone. Too much hatred to do that. The land is filled with hatred. You mention Zionists, but fail to mention Islam. Jesus lived and died there as a person. Anyone deny this? Muhammed?

There will be peace there one day. I believe that to be true. It is because of my faith. Many see the outcome only through war. I pray that does not have to take place. Israel has over 50,000 missiles aimed at it. They have to deal with national security. If people try to destroy America from within, another will rise and help Israel. Not a day goes by someone is not planning an attack on Israel. Try living like that. Remove the radical leaders in the area trying to destroy Israel and there will be peace. The Palestinians are poor because they are being used. Sad state of affairs.

 

[muir]

Yeah agreed it is a sad state of affairs

Israel has nuclear capability and a cutting edge military supplied by the US. Israel is not being bullied by anyone.

How to negotiate a solution? One problem though seems to be that with US support, the hardliners don't feel that they need to negotiate; they are still building the settlements in the West bank

 

[poshlost]

There will be peace there one day. I believe that to be true. It is because of my faith.

You peaceful faith folks were the cause of all the wars in the region.

 

[just me]

quote "Yeah agreed it is a sad state of affairs" unquote

+1

...will revisit this when indictments are handed out on the Hariri murder. Don't wish to argue about the situation like so many others are always doing every day when I could be trying to do something more productive. I have been watching this since before 1982 in Lebanon, but 1982 caused much more concern. I would like to see the fighting stop.

Reminds me a bit of the story of King Solomon's dealing with two women claiming the same child. He said he would cut the child in half and give half to each. One woman was fine with that, but the other would not hear of it. If there is no more Jerusalem, who would that make happy? Talk at you later.

 

[bamf]

Reminds me a bit of the story of King Solomon's dealing with two women claiming the same child. He said he would cut the child in half and give half to each. One woman was fine with that, but the other would not hear of it. If there is no more Jerusalem, who would that make happy? Talk at you later.

So Jerusalem 'truly' belongs to one faction of people?

 

[just me]

So Jerusalem 'truly' belongs to one faction of people?

I had to back away from my first thoughts on that one, but will share them with you. First thing came to mind was said back two thousand years ago already regarding something else; "That is what you say." The interlinear translation may show its true meaning at the time. Felt it unfair to use at the time.

I personally believe us all to be caretakers of sorts. I feel certain times require certain people to care for certain things. Some people prove themselves unworthy by their actions. Actions by people are always viewed by people differently all over the world. I used King Solomon's judgment as a direct way of how I personally feel regarding rights to caretakers.

Back to Hariri's situation........will return to this thread when the indictments are handed out. I really hoped this to be about that, however much it may have to do about so many different things. Peace to you until then (and afterwards).