It's supposedly Constitutional, BUT | Page 14 | INFJ Forum

It's supposedly Constitutional, BUT

just me said:
Pay people who don't even care $15 an hour, and we get inflation. Lots of people out there don't work as if they should earn $8 an hour. Do you think a $15 an hour man can outperform $8 an hour men two to one? I do not. Maybe some.

Making an object takes 40 hours' man labor(and women, of course). That is $320 in labor at eight an hour. At $15, the labor costs $600. We pay for the extra labor. Only ones benefitting are taxes going up all across the board. Gov wants your money.
We can no longer compete on the world market. More businesses are buying overseas. Good way to send China, et al, more money, though.
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imo, and be it clear it's just my opinion, I disagree with your assessment of the reasoning behind increasing the minimum wage. My opinion comes from an HR perspective.

Giving the worker incentive to show up and perform better is key to a healthy workforce. The cost of living alone in some areas will exceed the new increase.

Most businesses used to have the luxury of giving a fitting hourly wage with benefits that balanced out. The current prices of healthcare and childcare all but cancel out the ability for affordable housing and food. And at the end of the day, the worker is flat broke paying bills if they can pay them to begin with. They are left feeling why bother and there lies the root cause of why we don't get the production output from them that they're being paid for.

You add in the psychology of the fact that people will take the path of least resistance and you have a crowd of clockwatchers instead of productive workers.

Short of sticking more than my foot in my mouth, it's my opinion the government needs to boost the incentive to get the GDP rate increased to make the country self sufficient again. America isn't an island, it needs resources outside its borders to make its products.

If people would stop fussing, take a roll back look to the 8 year term of Bush Jr, a republican btw, hharhar, and his outsourcing factory production to other countries, which then got bought back across the counter by the very people put out of work by sending 'menial viewed jobs to a perceived 'lesser country.

The government needs a deep cleaning like a cluttered closet. Get some sunlight and air back into the accountability stream. My meaning is stop fighting over petty shit developed over time among people that think the national checkbook is their own money...it is not, it belongs to the people who worked and survived the cost of living to pay those tax amounts in.

On the flip side, people need to stop thinking America us the Granddaddy of the world...children and prodigy grow up over time. Americans should not have to support other countries families while theirs go without. The support chains that were installed during the Great Wars were a helping hand until those countries that yarded much of the fight to diplomacy got back on their feet...some have been soaking America for generations since. And, in that light, when America needs assistance it's generally Americans that pull up their bootstraps and get themselves out of the jam. Often that has caused a wider divide here on our own turf among our own citizens. Not everyone is meant to sit in the big chair and arrogant Americans need a reality check on multiple levels.

Wow, I went a tad off the path @just me my bottomline statement is...we need to back up, clear up the cracks in the systems, and then move forward in unity and not all this divided bs. Let the mete match the measure. ♡

United we stand, divided we fall ? Still true even after 200+ years.
 
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When you really look at our country..it is the wealthy making sure they amass more wealth. The minimum wage is a disgrace..there is plenty, but the distribution is the issue.
 
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For those interested in understanding inflation and its ramifications:

tutor2u.net/economics/reference/inflation-consequences-of-inflation

thebalance.com/what-are-the-effects-of-inflation-357607 Joshua Kennon 10/5/20

textbook.stpauls.br/macroeconomics/page_94.htm

mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/79608/1/MPRA_paper_79608.pdf

thesavystreet.com/can-inflation-be-used-to-induce-socialism/

thestreet.com/personal-finance/mortgages/historic-mortgage-rates-14849606
 
Sandie33 said:
imo, and be it clear it's just my opinion, I disagree with your assessment of the reasoning behind increasing the minimum wage. My opinion comes from an HR perspective.

Giving the worker incentive to show up and perform better is key to a healthy workforce. The cost of living alone in some areas will exceed the new increase.

Most businesses used to have the luxury of giving a fitting hourly wage with benefits that balanced out. The current prices of healthcare and childcare all but cancel out the ability for affordable housing and food. And at the end of the day, the worker is flat broke paying bills if they can pay them to begin with. They are left feeling why bother and there lies the root cause of why we don't get the production output from them that they're being paid for.

You add in the psychology of the fact that people will take the path of least resistance and you have a crowd of clockwatchers instead of productive workers.

Short of sticking more than my foot in my mouth, it's my opinion the government needs to boost the incentive to get the GDP rate increased to make the country self sufficient again. America isn't an island, it needs resources outside its borders to make its products.

If people would stop fussing, take a roll back look to the 8 year term of Bush Jr, a republican btw, hharhar, and his outsourcing factory production to other countries, which then got bought back across the counter by the very people put out of work by sending 'menial viewed jobs to a perceived 'lesser country.

The government needs a deep cleaning like a cluttered closet. Get some sunlight and air back into the accountability stream. My meaning is stop fighting over petty shit developed over time among people that think the national checkbook is their own money...it is not, it belongs to the people who worked and survived the cost of living to pay those tax amounts in.

On the flip side, people need to stop thinking America us the Granddaddy of the world...children and prodigy grow up over time. Americans should not have to support other countries families while theirs go without. The support chains that were installed during the Great Wars were a helping hand until those countries that yarded much of the fight to diplomacy got back on their feet...some have been soaking America for generations since. And, in that light, when America needs assistance it's generally Americans that pull up their bootstraps and get themselves out of the jam. Often that has caused a wider divide here on our own turf among our own citizens. Not everyone is meant to sit in the big chair and arrogant Americans need a reality check on multiple levels.

Wow, I went a tad off the path @just me my bottomline statement is...we need to back up, clear up the cracks in the systems, and then move forward in unity and not all this divided bs. Let the mete match the measure. ♡

United we stand, divided we fall ? Still true even after 200+ years.
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Reason aside, not that I agree with yours and not that I am pushing mine, I have a very bad feeling about this. Having worked people in my construction business since 1990(and five years in another I sold). Our government simply costs too much to run. Start where the problem is. We pay entirely too many people sitting on their butts doing nothing. Think about Dr. Seuss: racial split caused by blacks. Acting like there was no civil war. Tearing down statues that bother people. When they stop playing the black card, I will treat them the same as the other blacks in my life. The hell with going back. I didn't make them black. Nobody here has placed them in slavery. No, but you want to look back. A man looking back cannot plow a field.

I know white folk I actually think way less of than most blacks I KNOW. You keep looking back, and
I'll be waiting on you when you get wherever you plan to go.
 
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philostam said:
You're right that offshoring is a deflationary force. If US stopped offshoring, the price of commodities (now produced at home) would increase.

However, like Hos said, that might not be a bad thing. People fear 'inflation', but is it really that bad if prices of commodities increase if it means reduced unemployment, higher wages and higher domestic aggregate demand? Also, why do people fear consumer price inflation so much, but accept asset prices inflation? It's because it's the rich who benefit from asset price inflation - they own majority of them.

What US consumers gain in lower prices of commodities, they lose in stagnating real wages and asset prices inflation (including real estate). So yes, great when you want to buy food, clothing or gadgets; bad when you're trying to buy a home.
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HOW will this do anything but reduce employment? Businesses pay entirely too much as it is. People should earn what they get. Businesses will be firing people. I do not fear inflation: inflation comes from expenses going up. It doesn't have to be in the form of labor. Taxation to pay for inflated government is way bad. Some of you folk out there act as if everyone has a wonderful job, nice home, and there is no big deal getting by. Lower prices of commodities? It will not stay that way: hello. Wait til your loved ones need true, expensive medical care. There are people with no jobs who have had to close their life insurance, cancel their medical insurance, and hope their teeth don't fall out. Paint a real picture: it will be worse. I believe I see sheep being lead to slaughter.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
That's a servile way of looking at things. I'm consistently surprised at how deeply people imbibe the ideology of their masters.

The idea is more like that the worker produces $20 of value, but under the current system, $12 of that is extracted as profit from his labour.

This gives the company funds to fuel growth, but removes spending power from the economy as a whole, or it simply funnels that money into a class of elites (as we have seen).

A $15 wage extracts $5 of profit from the labour of the man, but almost doubles the worker's spending power in the economy as a whole. That is, consumption is boosted, and why 'stimulus spending' works when it's implemented.

States simply have to choose which economic model is better for them - high-wage, low-margin, or low wage, high-margin.

Of course, the thing that nobody seems to notice is that in only one of these is the net condition of human misery much less than the other.
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It is more like workers produce $8 of value, but they want to add another $12 an hour burden on companies per employee.
 
Aneirin said:
When you really look at our country..it is the wealthy making sure they amass more wealth. The minimum wage is a disgrace..there is plenty, but the distribution is the issue.
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The problem is that more regulation would be needed to counteract this, but it seems the American population is, on average, not in favour of more government involvement in the economy.

The US is always last when it comes to legislating for market regulation, and it does not always follow after the EU has (slowly) done the groundwork. It will be interesting to see what happens in the digital space / the attempt to tame the power of the tech giants.
 
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just me said:
Reason aside, not that I agree with yours and not that I am pushing mine, I have a very bad feeling about this. Having worked people in my construction business since 1990(and five years in another I sold). Our government simply costs too much to run. Start where the problem is. We pay entirely too many people sitting on their butts doing nothing. Think about Dr. Seuss: racial split caused by blacks. Acting like there was no civil war. Tearing down statues that bother people. When they stop playing the black card, I will treat them the same as the other blacks in my life. The hell with going back. I didn't make them black. Nobody here has placed them in slavery. No, but you want to look back. A man looking back cannot plow a field.

I know white folk I actually think way less of than most blacks I KNOW. You keep looking back, and
I'll be waiting on you when you get wherever you plan to go.
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Your opinion is noted, and shared by many I know on both sides of the race issue ;) but can you see how this sort of view only increases that divide???
Thank you for sharing perspectives @just me I can't disagree on your point that our government is getting too costly to run. Many hoping there's a change isn't going to get us across the bridge though, it's going to take action. The question being how that action forward can take place in peace not more internal conflict. ;)
tc.
 
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White folks need to really feel what it is not not be white..the racial ignorance and insensitivity of white folks is astonishing. If you don't fear for your life in a traffic stop you have no concept of issues of race...
And minimum wage? It is poverty built into the system that keeps the rich, rich.
 
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Aneirin said:
White folks need to really feel what it is not not be white..the racial ignorance and insensitivity of white folks is astonishing. If you don't fear for your life in a traffic stop you have no concept of issues of race...
And minimum wage? It is poverty built into the system that keeps the rich, rich.
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You realize that white folks died to free slaves. If white folks are so ignorant why did they kill their friends family’s and neighbors to set slaves free? Why set them free if we are all racists. Why would white people let them have any rights. Your position makes zero sense in a country where we eliminated slavery totally. Everyone has more freedom here. People do not run across the border to live in a racist country by the millions. No one denied that their are dip shits in life. Not everyone is going to get along. That is just the way life is. There will always be conflict. We have gotten to the point where we are making problems just for problems sake.
A white gentleman in Idaho was shot and killed by the police for looking in his back yard. The police mistook him for a suspect. He had a wife and kids. Now they have no farther. Because he is white it’s not a problem. They won’t be marching in the streets for him. They won’t burn down boise Idaho over it. No innocent white civilians will be killed in anger. Nothing will happen. And yet this father is dead at the hands of the police. It’s not only black folks being systematically gunned down by police. White males die at a much higher rate than any other race at the hands of police.

To say that a human being cannot understand what it is like to be human being is laughable. If I am not a human then what am I. If a black person is not human what are they? It seems that we cannot agree that we are all humans. And that we all deserve the same respect. You cannot legislate people to like you. Doing that creates a much worse situation to arise. All men are created equal. If you start making distinctions then your just like the racists you claim to be eliminating. One must be careful with their thinking. And be wise enough to look at history and what has already been done in the past. And what progress was made for our future. We have come a long way in the USA. We are not perfect. But our country has more people from other countries that any other nation. We have a diverse mix of humans. And look at all the good things that have come out of different humans cooperating. You cannot change the past. But you can learn from it and make the future a better place. That has always been the way. Tearing the USA apart and dividing us racially is just what the racists want. Singling each other out is what the racists want. When you play games of division your doing the racists work for them. You cannot divide America and still have America.

It’s also not a good way to live your life claiming that others must suffer the same fate as you to be able to understand. If that’s the case I want every 6 year old child in America to get brain cancer. I want every parent to know how it feels to have a child dealing with terminal illness. I want you all to suffer. I want you to feel what it’s like to have friends and family just abandon you. To be put aside and misunderstood. To be shunned because people do not want to relate to your pain. I want them to feel sick to their stomach every day for years. To watch their sons future be taken away. To watch other kids make fun of him because he walks or acts different now. I want you all to suffer as I have. I want you to cry as I have. I want you to hurt as I have.

Now what kind of sick sadistic asshole would ever wish cancer on anyone? Not me. I would never want anyone to go through the pain my family has had to go through. That is just plain ignorant. And selfish. We have to stop this way of thinking. It serves no one. I don’t want anyone to suffer. Regular life is bad enough without the extra grief we give one another. If you want to change the world change yourself. Be the change you want. If you set a good example others will follow. It might take time. Although we are further along than we were 200 years ago and that is something to celebrate. We live in a wonderful time. We have so many great inventions that have helped mankind so much. There is more work to do. Humans are a work in progress. Not one of them is perfect. When their is a perfect human. That is when the human race will end because there is no other purpose for a human but to suffer. Life is suffering.
 
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Until this country realizes that racism is a serious issue , nothing will change. Until we have true institutional equality, nothing will change. Until slavery is taught in schools, until the slaughter of native americans is taught in schools, until this country changes it's white focus, nothing will change.
 
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Aneirin said:
New Until this country realizes that racism is a serious issue , nothing will change.
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Yeah, people are biased and selective in their focus because they don't want to accept any responsibility for the future. It's sad.

Aneirin said:
until this country changes it's white focus, nothing will change.
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Well, I do think that the achievements of people of color should be given more attention than they already are. In the context of American history, it's definitely fair.
 
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Aneirin said:
Until this country realizes that racism is a serious issue , nothing will change. Until we have true institutional equality, nothing will change. Until slavery is taught in schools, until the slaughter of native americans is taught in schools, until this country changes it's white focus, nothing will change.
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Who who says that racism’s good or not an issue? Who wants this racism? Who wants these things? This country went to war over racism and slavery. And you act like it didn’t happen. You give no credit to the people who lost their lives as well as farms and families to give blacks the rights they have today. You are completely eliminating a piece of history so you can justify your own beliefs about the past. Which you never lived through. No one denies slavery. America is not the only country that had slaves. And yet it seems that America will have to pay. From what I’m hearing. You want to fix the mistakes of the past. You want to right the wrongs that you were never a part of. You want to judge those who cannot speak for themselves. And you want to condemn those who speak against your wrong way of thinking. You are labeling entire groups of people as racists because of the color of their skin and their country of origin.

This institutional equality you speak of is segregation. You want to put some down to lift others up. That’s veiled racism. It sounds nice until you apply it. Just like communism. It sounds all nice and fuzzy until you have to actually do it. Remember separate but equal? Oh that’s right they didn’t teach that in school. No ones ever heard of slavery. Or slaves in America. No ones ever heard of the trail of tears or decimation of the native Americans by the whites by germ warfare. Quick question for ya. Who came first the Spanish or English to the americas? Who brought the first diseases. Who was responsible for going after all the gold in the new world. Which country still has ships in the ocean with gold on them resting on the bottom?

It’s very convenient to look at a single event or trend and then ignore all the other things happening around it. Humans do it a lot in their own lives. It’s why we make exceptions for ourselves. We always assume that we are good. Or that our arguments are sound. And so that makes them good. And it seems that we like to make the other not good or wrong. And by doing so you allow that exception for thee but not for me. This is a very dangerous way to look at the world.

I agree with reparations for native Americans. Treaties were made with the USA. Those treaties were and still are being broken. The majority of the western United States belongs to the tribes. I don’t see the liberals in California moving out anytime soon. I don’t see Berkeley handing over their campus to natives. I hear them all scream about helping but none of them are willing to give up anything they have. So they are not serious. I don’t see Seattle handing over its city to the natives who owned that land for centuries. No one is serious about giving anything back. What they took from the indigenous peoples of America is more than anything they ever took from an African. Africa is still there her people are still on her lands. In America her people have been wiped out. And the land and animals have been removed for monitory gains. The natives lost everything in their past and their future. And that is sad. But what is more difficult to understand is why humans cannot see others as they see themselves and love the other for who they are. We are all human. We are all the same. Despite the color of our skin we all act human. We are all the same. And we are all guilty of the same things. That is why you give grace to your fellow man because you understand how it is to be human too. Don’t lose your humanity to a lack of thinking. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Comes to mind.

The average person is not oppressing anyone. They are just trying to get through their lives. Dealing with a system that they themselves were born into. One in which your very survival was based off of your proximity to others. The fact that we as humans have come to where we are now is a great thing. Never forget that. We are improving society with each generation. It makes no sense to persecute those that made it possible for us to have what we have today. The average American has more than any person in Africa. Or any third world countries. It’s not fair for us to look down at these people. That’s a western thing to do and that is poor thinking. Some of these folks are well enough left alone. They like how they live and would choose that life over what you say is better. We always think something is better until we know it. Then we can have a better understanding. I challenge you to apply everything to yourself before you tell anyone to do anything. Apply that standard yourself and make sure you can live under those rules. I can tell you right now that you can’t. You will never live up to your own expectations. So why would you ask anyone else too?
 
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As long as we have to have a movement called black lives matter where white folks say excuse me but all lives matter. Then we have a problem. It is a cultural problem it's an institutional problem. We watched George Floyd being murdered and we read that George Floyd died of a drug overdose. Brianna Taylor was murdered by the police in a box drug raid. Yet there's no accountability for these things. We're not talking about single events we're talking about a pervasive culture. White supremacy is on the rise. Thanks to the cult of Trump. He lifted up the rock and the bugs crawled out. It's time to change brother
 
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And I'm tapping out of this conversation. Racism is a real thing You can intellectualize it all you want but it's real it's pervasive and until we as a nation acknowledge it and do something about it we as a nation are not going to change and the problems will continue
 
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Aneirin said:
As long as we have to have a movement called black lives matter where white folks say excuse me but all lives matter. Then we have a problem. It is a cultural problem it's an institutional problem. We watched George Floyd being murdered and we read that George Floyd died of a drug overdose. Brianna Taylor was murdered by the police in a box drug raid. Yet there's no accountability for these things. We're not talking about single events we're talking about a pervasive culture. White supremacy is on the rise. Thanks to the cult of Trump. He lifted up the rock and the bugs crawled out. It's time to change brother
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So what’s the answer. It seems you have the answer. Give it too us. What is the solution for America’s whiteness? How are you going to handle the problem that is white people. How do we fix institutional whiteness.
 
Aneirin said:
And I'm tapping out of this conversation. Racism is a real thing You can intellectualize it all you want but it's real it's pervasive and until we as a nation acknowledge it and do something about it we as a nation are not going to change and the problems will continue
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Your not having a conversation. Your not even trying too. Your only point is that White Americans are bad. And since some white Americans were bad in the past that all were bad. You give zero credit for the millions of whites who died on behalf of the slaves. People they never knew. People they fought and died for. You sir have done nothing that even compares to the greatness of a civil war veteran. You are ignoring the greatness of the men who fought for their freedom. You are condemning them the same as those who held them captive. You are ignoring history. Your arguments are unfair to everyone who fought to free slaves. And everyone who worked after that to eliminate the democrats strong hold on the south. The Democratic Party was the party of slavery. The Republican Party freed the slaves from the despotism of the Democrats. And now history wants to make the republicans the slave owners. Your right nothing has changed. The Democratic Party is still the party of slavery. And the Republican Party is still the party of freedom from slavery. In today’s cancel culture the Democratic Party should be disbanded because it supported slavery. It should be canceled. And those who follow that party might need to have a mental examination to make sure that they are against slavery. Just as the Dixie flag is a symbol of racism the democratic donkey and all that party represents was based on the enslavement of people’s of color. Why would anyone be a proud democrat? Knowing that their team is a team of slave owners. Why would you align with that party? Why would you be proud to be a white southern democrat. Why won’t you disavow the Democratic Party for its protection of slavery and Jim Crow laws in the south so that they could remain in power. And what about the black slave owners in the south. They were Democrats too. You cannot draw a straight line through history. Your ignorance is fueling a fight that has already been fought. Your making things worse. And the rest of your kind that doesn’t even know the truth about the party they are a part of. You have zero credibility being a democrat talking about slavery.
 
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efromm said:
So what’s the answer. It seems you have the answer. Give it too us. What is the solution for America’s whiteness? How are you going to handle the problem that is white people. How do we fix institutional whiteness.
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One more thing. If you don’t want feedback on your posts don’t post them in a forum.
 
Ren said:
the American population is, on average, not in favour of more government involvement in the economy.
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