Why I No Long Believe | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Why I No Long Believe

Mind forg'd manacles

Literal christianity is a spiritual dead end.

It tells you what to think and what to do. It builds walls around your mind.

How can you explore new avenues of thought or fresh perspectives if you are in a mental cul de sac?

You have walked through that door of perception but your mother hasn't and perhaps she never will.

You have your journey and she has hers.

Don't take the mainstream religions at face value, look through them.

I think its worth looking at different systems outside them and seeing what speaks to you, but always keep one foot firmly on the ground!
 
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I've read your letter and wanted to comment a bit.

There's never a good reason to turn away from God because believing is not about reasoning in the first place. Religion has never promised any answers or power. You turned away because you had no faith. All those arguments you made is to justify your decision and defend it against other people. But it does not really need any explanation or defense.

Maybe I missed where the OP said that she was giving up or turning away from god.

I didn't read that she was giving up spirituality, I read that she gave up religion. Theses are two different concepts.

How can you believe that she has no faith? For that matter, faith in what? Our connection with divinity comes from the inside. She does not need a church or a preacher to have faith, religion, spirituality or god in her life. If this is what you believe, good for you. That is the correct belief for you, but it doesn't make her decision wrong, and it doesn't make your decision wrong.

However, keep in mind that your decisions regarding religion may be wrong for the OP. Just as her decisions about religion may be wrong for you.
 
I've read your letter and wanted to comment a bit.

There's never a good reason to turn away from God because believing is not about reasoning in the first place. Religion has never promised any answers or power. You turned away because you had no faith. All those arguments you made is to justify your decision and defend it against other people. But it does not really need any explanation or defense.

It is not so much a question of turning away from God, as it is a question of turning away from other peoples definitions of God.
I never could relate to the God presented by "Bible believing Christians, and it has come as a bit of a shock to me to realize that other people think I am spiritually inclined.

"God" is a very big concept- one that we are too inclined to constrain with the idolatory of our language, the language of the ten thousand things. "The Great Way" is if not transcendental, then at least trans-en- verbal.
 
Today for the first time my mother asked me why I'd left the Christian church. I was deeply involved for a number of years and really did love the ideas and feelings it gave me. She sent me a letter and I sent back with this. It's the clearest and most level-headed way I had of telling her what happened and I figure it's safe to share with the INFJ's here.

Hey Mom,

Honestly? It was probably the people and the questions nobody would answer. Some people can take things like 'God works in mysterious ways' as an answer. I took it the same way you'd take a cop issuing a traffic ticket and then saying 'The law works in mysterious ways'. You'd want to know why and if enough people told you that 'This is how things are, just deal with it' then you'd start to get pretty angry.

I wanted to know lots of things and since then, I started finding answers to many of those questions but the information just wasn't there in the language of the bible to answer those questions. Christianity is a language. Like you wouldn't use Zulu to try to explain particle physics. The language just doesn't have words for it without making up a bunch of new ones nobody understands. It would be a lot harder to use that language than to use a language that's closer. Christianity has lots of good words for interacting with each other and for ideas like 'You are part of the universe' and 'Be kind to one another to make civilization operate'.

I like a lot of the ideas of the book but I always found preachers a little evil. I know evil is a powerful word and it implies a lot of things. Preachers are there to 'lead the flock'. Why couldn't people lead themselves? They've got the book. Nobody would ever tell me what qualified them to lead and everyone else to follow. I always wanted to put my hand up in Church and say 'Hey...that doesn't mesh with this other bit of the Bible. Is that a mis-translation or do you just not understand it?'

They all seemed to have some kind of political inclination and a leader in the spiritual who makes the spiritual political is making God into a thing of politics. I can think of no meaner or more base impulse of man than politics. They're dictating to people with an umbrella of God rather than letting God operate on people and the people make their own decisions. I know people are supposed to lead their own lives but not many of them do. Sad thing.

As for the book...I found too many versions. Translations which were flat out contradictory. I never knew which to take as real and I felt that if I couldn't take the whole as real that nobody could ever really tell me what was real in it and at that point I'd just be making it up as I went along. The whole idea of religion is learning from someone else about the nature of living and if you're just making it up, you're not learning from God. At least, I didn't feel like I was learning from God.

I could feel God sometimes. I felt the same thing a few years later on magic mushrooms, and again having sex with a person with whom I'm deeply compatible. It was the exact same emotion. I know it's purely subjective, but it was precisely the same. I'd pray and I'd feel God after a little while, like a warmth in my mind and a quietness in my heart. It was like experiencing the universe except without senses getting in the way and mucking things up.

Finding out the experience wasn't unique to one religion and that lots of people who've never even heard of Christ or Yaweh could experience that same said thing really took some of the significance out of what I believed when I was younger. My beliefs and feelings weren't special or unique anymore. Heck, anyone with the right mindset could find that place and touch those feelings and didn't have to jump through hoops like 'Go to church' or 'believe abortion is wrong' or 'don't be gay'.

I read some other holy books and none of them seemed to be any more 'right' or 'wrong' than the Bible. Okay, some of them were a bit retarded (Magic Mormon Underwear springs to mind) but...still.

These are the reasons I left. I never stopped looking for deeper meaning.

Love,
Chessie


Again, I love feedback.

I can answer all the questions or challenges present in this post Chessie, but I won't do it unless you want me to.
 
I sense a lack of understanding here.
I will say now, like I have said before that the bible is perhaps one of the most misinterpreted written pieces of literature out there to date.

What I don't get is why people blame god for their own mistakes or things that don't go the way they want it to go. God is to easy of a target to push the gauntlet of blame onto. It is sin that distorts our view on life and what makes us turn our backs on God, by our own choice we did this, each and everyone of us.
It takes a spiritual talent to preach and teach the word of God and an open heart to accept it.

I am not the right person to answer your questions, but I am sure that Barnabas could if you allow him to do so.
 
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Quitting the church doesn't mean you are quitting God or Christianity. I'm afraid I am more of a goat than a sheep, I climb where and when I want to. I always had the feeling that instead of asking difficult question, the church wanted you to take everything in faith. I believe in "testing the Spirits" every time. That is directly from Scripture. I am not a ritualistic person, and I'm not a doctrinaire. Why all the denominations, and why such angst between them? Maybe the church folks need that kind of thing to make them feel like they are following God's Will, I dunno.
 
I agree with the OP and disagree with those giving her a hard time. In my experience, organized religion has become anti-faith. Religion: believe this or else ... faith: I know I can't ever know for sure, but I trust that it is so.

Jesus probably has a permanent imprint of his hand on his forehead after watching after the last 2000 years.