Why are we so apathetic? | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Why are we so apathetic?

Well if children starving and being homeless is less important than fighting terrorists and making war…which is what our country is prioritizing.
I would say it isn’t just an INTJ problem but a lack of humanity in society.

What if there is an MBTI aspect to the apathy?

Seriously man...i have heard some disturbing stuff come from the mouths of ENTJ's and INTJ's in the years i have discussed these issues here

The cynicism is unreal

Think about it....

We know there are some truely evil people at the top of the tree yes?

they are orchestrating wars and poverty around the world...seriously sick people

But these sick people can't operate alone...they need minions

So what is the psychology of those minions?

They need people who are INSENSITIVE towards other people; they need people who have NO EMPATHY towards their fellow man

They actively recruit psychopaths and people high on the psychopathy scale through things like psychometric testing and also the degree system in secret societies

But even these full blown psychos are not enough to populate all the levels in the control pyramid. they need ranks of low empathy people to act as adminstrators in the system and for that they look for people who are so left brained that they can't see whats going on and they look for people with a lack of empathy

Left brain people lacking empathy...they are the minions of the control system

I've spoken with these people for years on a range of issues...they just don't fucking get it or they don't want to get it because the system is paying them

They serve the corporate system all the while saying: ''it's not my problem''

I wanna say to them: ''It IS your problem, YOU are the fucking problem because you are feeding the beast''
 
[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] Pretty much.


And honestly being hungry once in a while in North America isn't that bad. It's not like some countries in Africa where a child dies every 5 seconds or where child labour occurs where kids are making Nikes and disassembling our old electronics to make new iPods for the "hungry" kids in America.

When the Great Depression occurred in America, apparently people's lifespans increased due to the positive metabolic impact of caloric restriction. It's like when I see a homeless person who is obese coming up to me begging for money, I'm like, "come on, in your case you being homeless for a few months is probably going to IMPROVE your health". That's the nature of "poverty" in North America in many cases. Where education and government aid is mostly free, it's usually a matter of people making poor life choices.

Of course there's a general issue of people being apathetic assholes but it's not like that's news, and it's not like it's everyone necessarily.
 
I got your point the first time ;-)

How do you extrapolate “nazi” america from feeding the hungry children in America?
I said nothing of the sort.
With the largest part of our budget every year and growing has been military spending…do you honestly think if we scaled that back we would somehow become occupied?
Nonsense.

Or is your line of thinking that because it gives money to social programs and somehow we’ll all be “socialists” whom Murica like to confuse with Nazism?
Explain.
(Then I gotta go get the nerves in my back burned out…so I’ll write you back after all the good drugs where off! hehe)
You were talking about how we have money to fight wars but no money to feed the poor, specifically children. The idea being that if we take money from war we could use it to feed children or something of the like instead. From the outset it sounds great, yes why not. But if we never fought any wars where would we be? If we remained pacifist no matter what we encountered, where would we be?
So...I just dont think its fair to say "we could feed starving children by not fighting wars and then all of out problems would be solved" type of deal.
 
What if there is an MBTI aspect to the apathy?

Seriously man...i have heard some disturbing stuff come from the mouths of ENTJ's and INTJ's in the years i have discussed these issues here

The cynicism is unreal

Think about it....

We know there are some truely evil people at the top of the tree yes?

they are orchestrating wars and poverty around the world...seriously sick people

But these sick people can't operate alone...they need minions

So what is the psychology of those minions?

They need people who are INSENSITIVE towards other people; they need people who have NO EMPATHY towards their fellow man

They actively recruit psychopaths and people high on the psychopathy scale through things like psychometric testing and also the degree system in secret societies

But even these full blown psychos are not enough to populate all the levels in the control pyramid. they need ranks of low empathy people to act as adminstrators in the system and for that they look for people who are so left brained that they can't see whats going on and they look for people with a lack of empathy

Left brain people lacking empathy...they are the minions of the control system

I've spoken with these people for years on a range of issues...they just don't fucking get it or they don't want to get it because the system is paying them

They serve the corporate system all the while saying: ''it's not my problem''

I wanna say to them: ''It IS your problem, YOU are the fucking problem because you are feeding the beast''

Let's assume for argument's sake that you are correct and it is ENTJ's who are running the show and are putting the time and effort into selecting only candidates who are of a similar type or who have especially low levels of empathy...

Being that ENTJ's make up a small portion of the population where other types who may not be as corporate/money minded tend towards being the vast majority of people... Why do you suppose such a small amount of people were able to reach the top corporately when there are literally billions of other people on the planet who would very likely prefer it to be otherwise? What do you suggest, in these particular circumstances, people do in their day to day lives that can change this?

It is my belief that no matter how many corporations and systems are torn down more will rise up, though the people at the top will be smart about it and their tactics will be more subtle. The trouble is that people do not have their eyes open enough to recognize a situation getting out of control before it reaches a critical point. They end up feeding into the very thing that is not working for them - or most people really. How does one survive without feeding the beast?

What is it about people that they are so willing to fall in line and put their hands out to get what they never earned, and why is it that we have a system where people are incapable of self sustaining and are being put in a situation where, even if they WANTED to earn, are unable to? Why is it that we have a system where we even have to "earn" anything, especially when it comes to things that are basic needs such as clean water, food, shelter and clothing? Where do you start picking it apart? Do you eliminate ENTJ's and low empathy people from society altogether to see if the softer more socially minded types will create a better world and how much better will it be? How long will it take for people to unite as a community and support and care for each other instead of trying to rely on third, fourth and fifth parties to rule and govern them and hand out their rations?

I don't know that it's a lack of empathy that allows this to happen and I would not blame it expressly on ENTJ's to happen, but there is a weakness in humanity that continues to be exploited and the only thing happening around that weakness is a whole lot of denial and lack of personal responsibility which goes hand in hand with ignorance about the broader picture.

There's a lot more going on in the world than ENTJ's and levels of empathy. Like I said, there are billions of people happily putting their heads down and complying with the standards being set before them, except I am not so sure they even understand how unhappy they aren't. Additionally, I don't think anyone has a true, fully fleshed out concept of what things would look like, how they work work, how society would function, if it was different. People are afraid of the unknown. Who is going to spearhead the movement and who will be responsible when they get crushed when the landslide of change comes their way?

I don't think people are ready to live differently and that has nothing to do with ENTJ's.
 
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I would not say that I am apathetic about this subject matter though I feel no personal responsibility to actively correct it. I think there are a lot of things happening that work into this situation as a whole and there are too many variables that would need to be tackled consistently for there to be a change. The way things are tends to be the result of multiple poor decisions made sequentially by many different people and the result tends to be the birth of children who will learn to make the same mistakes.

As someone who has no interest or care for children and no respect for people who have children but neglect them I find it hard to put too much personal feeling into this kind of situation. It's not that I can't have compassion for people who struggle, but I find it difficult to rally for people who tend to not be rallying much for themselves. Perhaps that's an ignorance thing, and when I use that word I do not mean it as an insult. I do not think people believe there could be a better way. Perhaps this is all just the result of generations of conditioning and not understanding that change can happen... A change that I don't have much interest in participating in because the issue is not personal to me.

I don't think people need to care about issues like this. I do think that everyone has some aspect of the world that they feels sadness about or feel irritation or even disgust about. The issues that I am not apathetic towards just so happen to not be related to poor kids.
I agree with you but I see the side of how can we let children suffer because of how ignorant their parents are? Its not their fault. For me it gets back to applying cold rational thought to everything. We can, maybe we even should but if we throw empathy and compassion to the wind completely ...is there anything that humanity brings with them where it makes a difference if it survives or not?
 
[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] Pretty much.


And honestly being hungry once in a while in North America isn't that bad. It's not like some countries in Africa where a child dies every 5 seconds or where child labour occurs where kids are making Nikes and disassembling our old electronics to make new iPods for the "hungry" kids in America.

When the Great Depression occurred in America, apparently people's lifespans increased due to the positive metabolic impact of caloric restriction. It's like when I see a homeless person who is obese coming up to me begging for money, I'm like, "come on, in your case you being homeless for a few months is probably going to IMPROVE your health". That's the nature of "poverty" in North America in many cases. Where education and government aid is mostly free, it's usually a matter of people making poor life choices.

Of course there's a general issue of people being apathetic assholes but it's not like that's news, and it's not like it's everyone necessarily.

Where I grew up I never knew anything about homelessness. I was "poor" but never starving and we had not very much but made it work. When I went to Toronto for the first time it was my first exposure to homelessness and I found it shocking and upsetting. I remember seeing a teenager with a dog out on the street and I remember crying over it because I thought the dog wasn't going to get fed but I never considered the teenager as I assumed he could just get a job somewhere or find a way to make it work.

Another time I went back to Toronto I saw another homeless person and I felt for him. I was still young and didn't have a lot of my own money but gave him whatever change I had on me because I thought maybe he would be hungry. I was all over the city that day and everywhere I went he had showed up. He was begging down long lines of people, asking every person he ever saw for money when I had gone out of my way to give him what little I had. He was just asking over and over and over again and he probably made more by skirting around concert venues and busy markets than I did pouring coffee 8 hours a day while trying to go to school.

When I moved to Vancouver I saw so many god damn fucking homeless people - some of which PURPOSELY ran or biked in front of my car trying to get themselves hit (East Hastings anyone?) and after living in that city and having my own struggles and remembering what my parents did to try to make ends meet, I just lost any feeling for the homeless people. There was one big fat dude that used to sit out on the corner near my apartment downtown and would ask for a quarter from everyone and then would go in and buy shit from the corner store. I saw another young couple who seemed to be glorifying their homelessness while begging, having clever little signs to attract people's attention and living off of other's people's wages because they were, you know, sticking it to the man and it made me sick.

Now, adults choosing homelessness is one thing. Ending up homeless because you have a mental illness and are not receiving the care you need is another. Choosing homelessness or making consistent bad choices so no one wants to house you is another. Having kids in the midst of all those bad choices and asking other people to raise them and support them is another thing. It grosses me out.
 
The thing with some people is that they are awesome at being asshurt and bitching and moaning yet somehow haven't been gifted with the skill of coming up with ideas that are better than those of the people they are bitching and moaning about. They don't even cognitively understand what it is that they're being asshurt about fully usually. They just magnetically take on asshurt like it's a contagion.
 
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I agree with you but I see the side of how can we let children suffer because of how ignorant their parents are? Its not their fault. For me it gets back to applying cold rational thought to everything. We can, maybe we even should but if we throw empathy and compassion to the wind completely ...is there anything that humanity brings with them where it makes a difference if it survives or not?

This is why I specified that individual people have strong feelings about specific subject matter. Mine may not revolve around children but there are many people in the world who feel strongly about children's issues. It's not that I do not care whether or not they suffer - I don't think they deserve to suffer at all. But the cause is not one that is personal to me so I don't actively participate in it. I don't have a passion for it. That's not a lack of empathy or compassion on my part, I just happen to be more geared towards helping adults as opposed to kids.
 
Let's assume for argument's sake that you are correct and it is ENTJ's who are running the show and are putting the time and effort into selecting only candidates who are of a similar type or who have especially low levels of empathy...

Being that ENTJ's make up a small portion of the population where other types who may not be as corporate/money minded tend towards being the vast majority of people... Why do you suppose such a small amount of people were able to reach the top corporately when there are literally billions of other people on the planet who would very likely prefer it to be otherwise? What do you suggest, in these particular circumstances, people do in their day to day lives that can change this?

It is my belief that no matter how many corporations and systems are torn down more will rise up, though the people at the top will be smart about it and their tactics will be more subtle. The trouble is that people do not have their eyes open enough to recognize a situation getting out of control before it reaches a critical point. They end up feeding into the very thing that is not working for them - or most people really. How does one survive without feeding the beast?

What is it about people that they are so willing to fall in line and put their hands out to get what they never earned, and why is it that we have a system where people are incapable of self sustaining and are being put in a situation where, even if they WANTED to earn, are unable to? Why is it that we have a system where we even have to "earn" anything, especially when it comes to things that are basic needs such as clean water, food, shelter and clothing? Where do you start picking it apart? Do you eliminate ENTJ's and low empathy people from society altogether to see if the softer more socially minded types will create a better world and how much better will it be? How long will it take for people to unite as a community and support and care for each other instead of trying to rely on third, fourth and fifth parties to rule and govern them and hand out their rations?

I don't know that it's a lack of empathy that allows this to happen and I would not blame it expressly on ENTJ's to happen, but there is a weakness in humanity that continues to be exploited and the only thing happening around that weakness is a whole lot of denial and lack of personal responsibility which goes hand in hand with ignorance about the broader picture.

There's a lot more going on in the world than ENTJ's and levels of empathy. Like I said, there are billions of people happily putting their heads down and complying with the standards being set before them, except I am not so sure they even understand how unhappy they aren't. Additionally, I don't think anyone has a true, fully fleshed out concept of what things would look like, how they work work, how society would function, if it was different. People are afraid of the unknown. Who is going to spearhead the movement and who will be responsible when they get crushed when the landslide of change comes their way?

I don't think people are ready to live differently and that has nothing to do with ENTJ's.

I don't think ENTJ's are at the top

I think they form a strata of the pyramid

I'll answer this in more detail but I have to go do something just now
 
This apathy question has been dealt with a couple of times before on the forum

This was the first thread i posted on: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2728&page=2&highlight=apathy+muir

I think some interesting points were raised in the ensuing discussion

I'd also add that a lot of apathy is chemically induced

Much of the population are on 'mood stabilisers' and 'anti-depressants' etc

These are about quelling peoples emotions

The problem is that our emotions are our feedback from our unconscious mind. When we feel anxious its because something is wrong in our world...our inner and outer world are not aligned. If we're freaking out it's because something is very wrong

When we feel anxious it is our cue to then take steps within our life to change whatever is troubling us. But because the system has been constructed to be so constraining many people feel that they can't make any real change so instead of solving the problem (which they feel they can't solve) they go to a doctor to have the symptoms dampened through drugs so that they can carry on in the system that is upsetting them
 
Let's assume for argument's sake that you are correct and it is ENTJ's who are running the show and are putting the time and effort into selecting only candidates who are of a similar type or who have especially low levels of empathy...

I don't think ENTJ's are running the show. i think they form an administrative layer in the system which they are happy to serve

They will rationalise away their behaviour usually by blaming everyone else for being too weak to stand up to them

Like i said in my earlier post i think there are full blown psychopaths at the top of the pyramid and i think there are stratas beneath them of minions willing to serve the psychopaths

These stratas have less empathy the higher up the pyramid you go. These compassionless people are building a world in their image. They are pushing conscientious people out of influential positions and they are promoting their own sycophantic yes men/women to then do their bidding

All the corporations use psychometric testing and if you look at what has happened in the economic crash it is clear that the minion class (made up of people with low empathy like the highly paid banker who chopped off the head of that woman in his hotel room) are used by the network to pursue SHORT TERM PROFITS at the expense of long term sustainability

Psychopaths are basically risk takers who do not take into account the long term effects on other people of their actions

An FBI criminal profiler profiled the model of the corporation and said that corporations are psychopathic entities because they lack the ability to take inot account the 'externalities' in their pursuit of profit. Externalities being things like the harm caused to people and the environment

These psychopaths are chosen to have these jobs because the people at the top are deliberately sabotaging the economy

I'm going to say that again and emphasise it (i'm going to bring this post up again in the future when this is proven correct): they are DELIBERATELY SABOTAGING THE ECONOMY

This is because there is a game plan, which i'm not going to go into here

In order to achieve this game plan the corporate network have to get rid of people of conscience. Adam Curtis described the purging of the UK civil service that occurred during the thatcher era in one of his documentaries (i think it was 'the trap'). This was done as part of 'game theory' where it was believed that a society required people to be acting purely out of SELF INTEREST not out of community mindedness

Not only did Thatcher (Britain's version of Reagan) purge the civil service of people who actually cared about their public duty but she also appointed peadophiles into power (there is an enquiry into this high powered peadophile ring in the UK government in the UK at the moment)

I'm going to repeat this because this is important to fully understand....it was carried out as POLICY to appoint SELF SERVING people into the british establishment as part of 'game theory' created by the paranoid John Nash during the cold war

John Nash has since admitted that game theory was FLAWED

When Nash first tried to test game theory on the secretaries in his office he found that they did not behave in the selfish way that he had predicted they would in his paranoid mindstate. He ignored this and carried on with his theory anyway. Basically the secretaries did not screw each other over like he had expected them to

As a result of this policy of recruiting self serving people into power Britain is now being rocked with scandal after scandal involving everything from politicians stealing public expenses, politicians raping children and strangling them at sex parties, police chiefs covering up the murdering/raping activities of the politicians, countless banking frauds involving political expediency and also corrupt collusion between the tax (HMRC) part of the government and the corrupt banks (HSBC who have also been caught laundering money for drug cartels)

All this stuff coming out shows the scale of the abuse, lies, corruption and filth that comes from promoting self serving people into positions of power

These psychopaths need underlings to do their bidding and they seek left brain administrators who will effectively manage their affairs, while not asking any awakward questions of them or the system. They seek ambitious people who don't care about anyone but themselves

Being that ENTJ's make up a small portion of the population where other types who may not be as corporate/money minded tend towards being the vast majority of people... Why do you suppose such a small amount of people were able to reach the top corporately when there are literally billions of other people on the planet who would very likely prefer it to be otherwise?

They were promoted to those positions by the corporate network who want people who will administer their corporate empire

Of course they will tell you another story. they will tell you they were promoted because of how brilliant they are!

Yet clearly the only thing they are brilliant at is destroying society and the environment for profit (and pushing around other people)

What do you suggest, in these particular circumstances, people do in their day to day lives that can change this?

I'm posting information relating to this in my 'possible solutions thread' all the time

One of the biggest things we can do as a society though is remove the control of the money supply from the private central bankers and put it back in the hands of the people. But you will not hear that talked about on the corporate news

It is my belief that no matter how many corporations and systems are torn down more will rise up, though the people at the top will be smart about it and their tactics will be more subtle. The trouble is that people do not have their eyes open enough to recognize a situation getting out of control before it reaches a critical point. They end up feeding into the very thing that is not working for them - or most people really. How does one survive without feeding the beast?

By acting through conscience

Start asking yourself if you are helping them to further their agenda

What is it about people that they are so willing to fall in line

Most people are not aggressive arseholes

and put their hands out to get what they never earned,

Most people are happy to work a fair day for a fair wage

They rarely get a fair day and they rarely get a fair wage

Society rewards those who advance the corporate agenda so the people making the big money are all the corrupt people or their minions

and why is it that we have a system where people are incapable of self sustaining and are being put in a situation where, even if they WANTED to earn, are unable to?

The economy is being sabotaged and it is a debt based system where the money supply is controlled by private central bankers instead of by the treasury

Why is it that we have a system where we even have to "earn" anything, especially when it comes to things that are basic needs such as clean water, food, shelter and clothing? Where do you start picking it apart? Do you eliminate ENTJ's and low empathy people from society altogether to see if the softer more socially minded types will create a better world and how much better will it be? How long will it take for people to unite as a community and support and care for each other instead of trying to rely on third, fourth and fifth parties to rule and govern them and hand out their rations?

People need to become more aware and start acting on their informed convictions. They also need to stop taking so much shit from the system and its minions

I don't know that it's a lack of empathy that allows this to happen and I would not blame it expressly on ENTJ's to happen, but there is a weakness in humanity that continues to be exploited and the only thing happening around that weakness is a whole lot of denial and lack of personal responsibility which goes hand in hand with ignorance about the broader picture.

People can only be responsible as far as they are aware and most people are not very aware because of the ENGINEERED IGNORANCE which the system pushes on them

This must be undone by a grass roots sharing of information among the population to allow people to see and understand the truth so that they can then make informed decisions about what to do

See for example all the political theatre at the moment with elections coming up...it's all bullshit...none of the big parties are talking about taking control of the money supply off the bankers

There's a lot more going on in the world than ENTJ's and levels of empathy. Like I said, there are billions of people happily putting their heads down and complying with the standards being set before them, except I am not so sure they even understand how unhappy they aren't. Additionally, I don't think anyone has a true, fully fleshed out concept of what things would look like, how they work work, how society would function, if it was different.

People do have ideas of alternatives but these are not being allowed space in the public arena because of the monopolisation over peoples minds being held by the mainstream, centrally controlled corporate media

The growing alternative media is now breaking that grip over peoples minds and the truth is getting out to people; this will change the world in time

People are afraid of the unknown.

''better the devil you know'' is a line straight from the dictators handbook

People need to start knowing more and understanding more and they are. but there has been a monopoly over the flows of information until recently

Who is going to spearhead the movement

People themselves in grassroots movements

and who will be responsible when they get crushed when the landslide of change comes their way?

The corporate network is going to crush us under their landslide if we don't...that's a guarantee

I don't think people are ready to live differently and that has nothing to do with ENTJ's.

All the growing protest around thew world says otherwise

Are you an ENTJ?
 
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This apathy question has been dealt with a couple of times before on the forum

This was the first thread i posted on: http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2728&page=2&highlight=apathy+muir

I think some interesting points were raised in the ensuing discussion

I'd also add that a lot of apathy is chemically induced

Much of the population are on 'mood stabilisers' and 'anti-depressants' etc

These are about quelling peoples emotions

The problem is that our emotions are our feedback from our unconscious mind. When we feel anxious its because something is wrong in our world...our inner and outer world are not aligned. If we're freaking out it's because something is very wrong

When we feel anxious it is our cue to then take steps within our life to change whatever is troubling us. But because the system has been constructed to be so constraining many people feel that they can't make any real change so instead of solving the problem (which they feel they can't solve) they go to a doctor to have the symptoms dampened through drugs so that they can carry on in the system that is upsetting them

I don't think you are correct, but at the same time no one knows the correct answer.

Why is it always assumed that if a person or a company becomes successful that they MUST share their wealth with those less fortunate? Many people who have worked hard to be in the position they are in are the first to decline donating money elsewhere UNLESS there is an incentive. Nothing is free, even in the donation of wealth ... there are always motivations behind it (good advertisement, having the audience see a company in a positive light in order to buy their products, tax benefits, etc.) We are not existing in an egalitarian society, nor will we ever. Not everyone pulls their own weight ... period, and people suffer ... period.

I think resolutions come on a much smaller scale. So many are overwhelmed by sheer numbers, that they don't know where to begin. As one person (and if you are willing), do what you CAN do. As for children growing up in poverty, I can assure you that for the vast majority of them the lunch they eat at school may be the only thing they eat the entire day ... which is why it is important the schools provide "free lunches" to children in need. So what happens on the weekends, breaks or during summers? That depends on the community. The church I belonged to in GA ran a "Sack Lunch" program during this time, an outreach to the immediate community in need. One of my best friends and her volunteers would deliver to families, and would give as many lunches as they needed to feed the entire family (funded by M.U.S.T. Ministries ... Methodist based nonprofit organization.) Often what drives our compassion for others is reinforced through faith (not always obviously.) I think more and more of society is turning away from faith on a very basic level.

My volunteer work is something I felt called to do, I have learned so much from it as well. I am compassionate toward children to a degree (I admit, it's a bit awkward) ... but I'm more passionate about learning the dysfunction of policy on a very detailed level. What will I do with this knowledge? Who knows ... the future always waits.
 
I don't think you are correct, but at the same time no one knows the correct answer. Why is it always assumed that if a person or a company becomes successful that they MUST share their wealth with those less fortunate?

That's too simplistic a view to take

To gain a more realistic view of what is really going on you have to look at how those people/corporations became succesful

This usually involves lobbying the politicians to pass laws that favour the corporation at the expense of the many

A common trick by corporations is that it is cheaper to pay a corporate fine than to do the right thing. Examples of this can be seen in the tiny fines pad by banks for defrauding the public or of big pharma for poisoning the public

An example of this would be a corporation needing to dump a load of toxic waste. Lets say that it costs $10 million to properly process that waste in a way that won't damage the environment or the public. So the corporate bosses (psychopaths) decide instead to open the overflow pipes and flush that toxic waste into the local river systems. This then poisons the ecosystem and the surrounding population who then get sick.

The corporation however has paid bribes ('lobbying') to the politicians so the politicians charge the corporation a $1 million fine. That's a saving of $9 million from if they had done the right thing

Often they will move their operations abroad where there are no unions to protect workers rights and where they can poison the environment and people with no legal consequences eg Bhopal disaster in India

Did you know that the aluminium industry creates a whole load of toxic byproducts, one of which is flouride? And did you know that by bribing politicians the aluminium company found a way to dump that toxic waste free of charge?

Flouride is used in rat poison by the way. Do you know what they did with that flouride? They dumped it in your drinking water

Do you think they drink the water you drink? Don't kid yourself

Here look at the following clip where a monsanto spokesman says that monsantos pesticide 'roundup' (now shown by studies to cause cancer) is safe to drink. When his interviewer then offered him a cup of it to drink however he declined to drink it :(

[video=youtube;kMnYIYHSiQ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMnYIYHSiQ8[/video]

So that corporate cretin is happy to sit there and lie to people and say roundup is safe when he knows it is not. But he's 'successful' because they pay him lots of money to do it

Many people who have worked hard to be in the position they are in are the first to decline donating money elsewhere UNLESS there is an incentive.

I don't think it is about working 'hard'. Hitler worked hard

I think whats important is who is contributing something worthwhile to society; they should be rewarded for that, but in a system run by psychopaths it is the people who best vandalise society who are rewarded the highest amounts. See for example how the bankers who crashed the economy have not only not been arrested but have instead been rewarded with bumper bonuses!

That's because they did as they were supposed.....they behaved like the self serving people their employers knew them to be and fucked everyone over

Nothing is free, even in the donation of wealth

Not true...lots of things are free for those at the top....they don't pay tax

... there are always motivations behind it (good advertisement, having the audience see a company in a positive light in order to buy their products, tax benefits, etc.)

Fuck advertising. if someone has a good product it should sell itself. Advertising is about manipulating people perceptions/feelings...always has been since it was conceived by Sigmund Freuds nephew Edward Bernays (father of public relations) and used by him to promote cigarettes to women and US corporate fascist military interventions in central america to the US public, using his uncles understanding of human unconscious drives

We are not existing in an egalitarian society, nor will we ever.

Not everyone pulls their own weight ... period, and people suffer ... period.

You seem to confuse rampant corruption and kleptomania by an out of control oligarchy as being a normal situation. Things are not normal at the moment....they are sliding towards chaos

I think resolutions come on a much smaller scale. So many are overwhelmed by sheer numbers, that they don't know where to begin. As one person (and if you are willing), do what you CAN do. As for children growing up in poverty, I can assure you that for the vast majority of them the lunch they eat at school may be the only thing they eat the entire day ... which is why it is important the schools provide "free lunches" to children in need. So what happens on the weekends, breaks or during summers? That depends on the community. The church I belonged to in GA ran a "Sack Lunch" program during this time, an outreach to the immediate community in need. One of my best friends and her volunteers would deliver to families, and would give as many lunches as they needed to feed the entire family (funded by M.U.S.T. Ministries ... Methodist based nonprofit organization.) Often what drives our compassion for others is reinforced through faith (not always obviously.) I think more and more of society is turning away from faith on a very basic level.

My volunteer work is something I felt called to do, I have learned so much from it as well. I am compassionate toward children to a degree (I admit, it's a bit awkward) ... but I'm more passionate about learning the dysfunction of policy on a very detailed level. What will I do with this knowledge? Who knows ... the future always waits.

There is crushing poverty in the west as well as the majority world, yes
 
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http://www.neonnettle.com/videos/45...de-documentry-is-set-to-rock-government-plans

[h=1]Ground Breaking UK Fluoride Documentary Set To Rock Government Plans[/h]
[h=2]Toxic Tap Water draws the battle lines in war on fluoride[/h]
By: Jack Murphy |@NeonNettle
on 14th April 2015 @ 1.49pm




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© press
An explosive new 50-minute documentary by Conscience Communications depicting Bedford citizens’ fight to keep fluoride out of the borough’s water ​An explosive new 50-minute documentary by Conscience Communications depicting Bedford citizens’ fight to keep fluoride out of the borough’s water supplies will launch on April 18th.

-SCROLL DOWN FOR TRAILER-
Through footage of live events and interviews with Fluoride Free Bedford’s co-ordinator, Cynthia Bagchi, and supporters, Toxic Tap Water provides an intimate snapshot of the campaign that has been operating largely beneath the public’s gaze since 2002.

Producer and director, Anna Bragga, says:

“Toxic Tap Water goes to the heart of Bedford’s battle against water fluoridation, bringing vivid sounds and imagery of the campaign into private living rooms for the first time.

“Although a low budget film, Toxic Tap Water packs a punch due to the emotive nature of the subject and the passion and commitment of campaigners. The film leaves the viewer with a clear sense of the highly political pro-fluoridation agenda but also a sense of the possible.”

Toxic Tap Water marks a milestone in the group's 13-year history. Co-ordinator and spokesperson, Cynthia Bagchi, says:

“I wanted the work of Fluoride Free Bedford to be recorded, and I wanted a recording of the processes we were going through, to help us visualise how we were going forward and to prepare other localities and activists.

“I wanted this film to alert the whole of England. If other areas haven’t been engaging, I hope they’ll see what we are doing and be inspired. I hope the film will help activists and awaken those who are asleep, unaware of the tsunami approaching – the push for water fluoridation.

“I have always felt that people are not aware of how councils work. Even councillors don’t always understand about how the different committees work. I wanted to crack open the mysticism of councils and processes, so local people can feel more able to interact with them.

“What Anna’s done is beyond what I imagined. She’s managed to not just document events in a dry fashion, but make it really interesting, compelling. It’s been a revelation to watch.”

Conscience Communications has been invited to make a sequel to the film later this year.

<strong>[video=vimeo;124394464]https://vimeo.com/124394464[/video]
 
I’ll just throw this up here…it seems there are some misconceptions…I can cite over sources if anyone would like.
And it does effect all levels of society, so it would be beneficial to fix this issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty
 
I don't think ENTJ's are running the show. i think they form an administrative layer in the system which they are happy to serve

They will rationalise away their behaviour usually by blaming everyone else for being too weak to stand up to them

Like i said in my earlier post i think there are full blown psychopaths at the top of the pyramid and i think there are stratas beneath them of minions willing to serve the psychopaths

These stratas have less empathy the higher up the pyramid you go. These compassionless people are building a world in their image. They are pushing conscientious people out of influential positions and they are promoting their own sycophantic yes men/women to then do their bidding

All the corporations use psychometric testing and if you look at what has happened in the economic crash it is clear that the minion class (made up of people with low empathy like the highly paid banker who chopped off the head of that woman in his hotel room) are sued by the network to pursue SHORT TERM PROFITS at the expense of long term sustainability

Psychopaths are basically risk takers who do not take into account the long term effects on other people of their actions

An FBI criminal profiler profiled the model of the corporation and said that corporations are psychopathic entities because they lack the ability to take inot account the 'externalities' in their pursuit of profit. Externalities being things like the harm caused to people and the environment

These psychopaths are chosen to have these jobs because the people at the top are deliberately sabotaging the economy

I'm going to say that again and emphasise it (i'm going to bring this post up again in the future when this is proven correct): they are DELIBERATELY SABOTAGING THE ECONOMY

This is because there is a game plan, which i'm not going to go into here

In order to achieve this game plan the corporate network have to get rid of people of conscience. Adam Curtis described the purging of the UK civil service that occurred during the thatcher era in one of his documentaries (i think it was 'the trap'). This was done as part of 'game theory' where it was believed that a society required people to be acting purely out of SELF INTEREST not out of community mindedness

Not only did Thatcher (Britain's version of Reagan) purge the civil service of people who actually cared about their public duty but she also appointed peadophiles into power (there is an enquiry into this high powered peadophile ring in the UK government in the UK at the moment)

I'm going to repeat this because this is important to fully understand....it was carried out as POLICY to appoint SELF SERVING people into the british establishment as part of 'game theory' created by the paranoid John Nash during the cold war

John Nash has since admitted that game theory was FLAWED

When Nash first tried to test game theory on the secretaries in his office he found that they did not behave in the selfish way that he had predicted they would in his paranoid mindstate. He ignored this and carried on with his theory anyway. Basically the secretaries did not screw each other over like he had expected them to

As a result of this policy of recruiting self serving people into power Britain is now being rocked with scandal after scandal involving everything from politicians stealing public expenses, politicians raping children and strangling them at sex parties, police chiefs covering up the murdering/raping activities of the politicians, countless banking frauds involving political expediency and also corrupt collusion between the tax (HMRC) part of the government and the corrupt banks (HSBC who have also been caught laundering money for drug cartels)

All this stuff coming out shows the scale of the abuse, lies, corruption and filth that comes from promoting self serving people into positions of power

These psychopaths need underlings to do their bidding and they seek left brain administrators who will effectively manage their affairs, while not asking any awakward questions of them or the system. They seek ambitious people who don't care about anyone but themselves



They were promoted to those positions by the corporate network who want people who will administer their corporate empire

Of course they will tell you another story. they will tell you they were promoted because of how brilliant they are!

Yet clearly the only thing they are brilliant at is destroying society and the environment for profit (and pushing around other people)



I'm posting information relating to this in my 'possible solutions thread' all the time

One of the biggest things we can do as a society though is remove the control of the money supply from the private central bankers and put it back in the hands of the people. But you will not hear that talked about on the corporate news



By acting through conscience

Start asking yourself if you are helping them to further their agenda



Most people are not aggressive arseholes



Most people are happy to work a fair day for a fair wage

They rarely get a fair day and they rarely get a fair wage

Society rewards those who advance the corporate agenda so the people making the big money are all the corrupt people or their minions



The economy is being sabotaged and it is a debt based system where the money supply is controlled by private central bankers instead of by the treasury



People need to become more aware and start acting on their informed convictions. They also need to stop taking so much shit from the system and its minions



People can only be responsible as far as they are aware and most people are not very aware because of the ENGINEERED IGNORANCE which the system pushes on them

This must be undone by a grass roots sharing of information among the population to allow people to see and understand the truth so that they can then make informed decisions about what to do

See for example all the political theatre at the moment with elections coming up...it's all bullshit...none of the big parties are talking about taking control of the money supply off the bankers



People do have ideas of alternatives but these are not being allowed space in the public arena because of the monopolisation over peoples minds being held by the mainstream, centrally controlled corporate media

The growing alternative media is now breaking that grip over peoples minds and the truth is getting out to people; this will change the world in time



''better the devil you know'' is a line straight from the dictators handbook

People need to start knowing more and understanding more and they are. but there has been a monopoly over the flows of information until recently



People themselves in grassroots movements



The corporate network is going to crush us under their landslide if we don't...that's a guarantee



All the growing protest around thew world says otherwise

Are you an ENTJ?

I think you've already made a decision about what you think my type is and you will run what I say and how you respond to me through your own perspective.

I understand how corporations and businesses work. I understand why they are the way that they are. I understand how they are formed and how they rise, how they influence, hold power and how they dictate. But it's not just about the corporations and the businesses, you see this in many institutions - including not for profit ones. There are always going to be people who want to exploit the loopholes for their own gain. I think many people treat it as a gain and don't feel personal responsibility towards the needs of other people. As far as they're concerned they are providing a service and people are buying it... Maybe the biggest buyers are the government or other agencies who benefit from their success. Maybe it's regular folk who don't know better.

The information is out there but a lot of things are buried. I do agree that "alternatives" exist and that they tend to be silenced, but I don't think they're silenced by the goverment or the media, I think they're silenced by regular people, too. I see people trying to silence each other all the time on an interpersonal level. How do you imagine people will unite and rise up? What exactly does that look like? I see a lot of posts from you talking about pulling power and influence out of the banks and I think people are beginning to mistrust the banks after our most recent recession that no one seems to be recovering from, but I also think people like money and things and they like instant gratification. I do not think most people look at things from a perspective of sustainability. How do you teach them to pull away? I suppose one can only lead by example and be a good enough representation of how fulfilling the alternative can be and let people follow. I do believe people have an intuitive sense of what is right and wrong but the intuition runs too deep for them to understand that the dissatisfaction they feel in their day to day lives comes exactly from how they live their day to day lives.

It doesn't upset me that people are stuck in the rat race. We all got swept into it one way or another. I am part of it. I am corporate. I don't feel fulfilled or satisfied by it, but I also don't walk through the door every day with my eyes closed. I see where I can succeed and trump others. I see what my assets are and what I have to offer and I happen to know that my particular skill set is valued and it will take me to the top if that's what I want - but I don't. That being said, it doesn't make me feel sad for other people who show up to work to collect their pay cheque. They are there to earn whatever they do to satisfy whatever lifestyle they want to live outside of the office. We all make choices to enter the game and some of us are just better at it than others and get rewarded for it. I think the difference between myself and other people I have surpassed is that I do not define myself by my job. It is a means to an end. It provides me with what I want and will continue to do so until they decide that I am expendable. In the mean time, I'd like to do something else with my time and help other people, but that is not currently feasible so I will take all of the corporate success I can get until such a time that I can leave that behind.

So how do we apply this to the subject at hand? That is to say, the children? How does one ensure they are fed and clothed properly? How does one ensure they have the education and skills needed to operate in the real world? Do we want to teach them to operate in the world as it is, or do we want to teach them how to operate in the world as it could be? The way I see it, things are falling apart all over the place and if it continues this way the alternative route is going to look a lot like a shit hole distopia. You don't see many people who are living in gratitude and abundance and comfort but who also are not corporate 9-5 slaves. These examples simply do not exist on a large enough scale that others can look to them as an example and find ways to achieve it for themselves. Personally I would love to see people having their needs met, going for goals, achieving their dreams, living in a way that is mutually beneficial to other people but also personally satisfying. That is just not how it is but I do think that people have a sort of inner knowing that it's the way it ought to be. But people get taken advantage of by those who are willing to do what it takes to get what they want as what is fulfilling for them may not be beneficial to the vast majority of people, and I don't hold it against them because the population allows it as there is too much that is put at risk to stand up and act against it. At least in an acute way.
 
I think you've already made a decision about what you think my type is and you will run what I say and how you respond to me through your own perspective.

I'm asking you because it helps my learning

The interesting thing about an MBTI site is that peoples views and behaviour can then be linked to type. Why not show an MBTI type on an MBTI forum?

I understand how corporations and businesses work. I understand why they are the way that they are. I understand how they are formed and how they rise, how they influence, hold power and how they dictate. But it's not just about the corporations and the businesses, you see this in many institutions - including not for profit ones. There are always going to be people who want to exploit the loopholes for their own gain. I think many people treat it as a gain and don't feel personal responsibility towards the needs of other people. As far as they're concerned they are providing a service and people are buying it... Maybe the biggest buyers are the government or other agencies who benefit from their success. Maybe it's regular folk who don't know better.

The information is out there but a lot of things are buried. I do agree that "alternatives" exist and that they tend to be silenced, but I don't think they're silenced by the goverment or the media, I think they're silenced by regular people, too. I see people trying to silence each other all the time on an interpersonal level. How do you imagine people will unite and rise up? What exactly does that look like? I see a lot of posts from you talking about pulling power and influence out of the banks and I think people are beginning to mistrust the banks after our most recent recession that no one seems to be recovering from, but I also think people like money and things and they like instant gratification.

Losing faith in something is a step on the road to change

But to know where to go next they have to understand what is broken and how it can be fixed

if people then drop the ball...well they were given a fair shot

But at the moment they are not being given a fair shot because they do not have the necessary information to make an informed decision

As the industrialist Ford said of the banking system:

''It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.''

This is the crux...people do not understand. This leaves them at the mercy of predatory forces who DO understand

If you are someone who does understand...and i do understand....then you have two options. You can join the predators and use your understanding to exploit the unaware and ignorant masses or you can try to alert the masses to the threat

This is a choice we must all make and as all the whistleblowers we are seeing speak out show many are now choosing to alert the masses to the threat

largely this is because the enormity of the threat is now becoming clear those whistleblowers who in the past probably thought their actions were small beer but now realise they are playing their part in a large and far reaching plot that is going to have disasterous implications for all of us f we do not act


I do not think most people look at things from a perspective of sustainability. How do you teach them to pull away? I suppose one can only lead by example and be a good enough representation of how fulfilling the alternative can be and let people follow. I do believe people have an intuitive sense of what is right and wrong but the intuition runs too deep for them to understand that the dissatisfaction they feel in their day to day lives comes exactly from how they live their day to day lives.

It's not just about free choice because the system itself is constrictive....they have no choice over that

It doesn't upset me that people are stuck in the rat race. We all got swept into it one way or another. I am part of it. I am corporate. I don't feel fulfilled or satisfied by it, but I also don't walk through the door every day with my eyes closed. I see where I can succeed and trump others. I see what my assets are and what I have to offer and I happen to know that my particular skill set is valued and it will take me to the top if that's what I want - but I don't. That being said, it doesn't make me feel sad for other people who show up to work to collect their pay cheque. They are there to earn whatever they do to satisfy whatever lifestyle they want to live outside of the office. We all make choices to enter the game and some of us are just better at it than others and get rewarded for it. I think the difference between myself and other people I have surpassed is that I do not define myself by my job. It is a means to an end. It provides me with what I want and will continue to do so until they decide that I am expendable. In the mean time, I'd like to do something else with my time and help other people, but that is not currently feasible so I will take all of the corporate success I can get until such a time that I can leave that behind.

Energy flows where attention goes

If no one takes responsiblity and we all decide to play the corporate game then we're all fucked

if you give your psychic energy to the corporate game then you are feeding the beast and the more people who feed it the stronger it will grow

So how do we apply this to the subject at hand? That is to say, the children? How does one ensure they are fed and clothed properly? How does one ensure they have the education and skills needed to operate in the real world?

End the corporatocracy

Take control of the money supply off the corporate banksters and allow money to serve the people

Do we want to teach them to operate in the world as it is, or do we want to teach them how to operate in the world as it could be?

Put the information out there and let people decide for themselves

The way I see it, things are falling apart all over the place and if it continues this way the alternative route is going to look a lot like a shit hole distopia.

The corporate system is sucking all the wealth away from the people

Thatcher and reagan pushed a set of policies called 'neoliberalism' or the 'washington consensus' which in a nutshell is about moving wealth away from the many and to the people at the top

The top 1% end up with all the wealth so that they can then buy up all the land and assets. Then once they own everything they can dictate the terms of governance

The question is whether or not people will allow this to happen; at the moment they know something is wrong but don;t yet have the direction to deal with it

Understanding how things work brings direction

You don't see many people who are living in gratitude and abundance and comfort but who also are not corporate 9-5 slaves.

I don't think the corporate slaves are happy; i think they're trapped in their own hell and want everyone else to join them there

These examples simply do not exist on a large enough scale that others can look to them as an example and find ways to achieve it for themselves. Personally I would love to see people having their needs met, going for goals, achieving their dreams, living in a way that is mutually beneficial to other people but also personally satisfying. That is just not how it is but I do think that people have a sort of inner knowing that it's the way it ought to be. But people get taken advantage of by those who are willing to do what it takes to get what they want as what is fulfilling for them may not be beneficial to the vast majority of people, and I don't hold it against them because the population allows it as there is too much that is put at risk to stand up and act against it. At least in an acute way.

People have been duped

Information needs to be shared around so that they can understand what is happening and then make free will decisions about what they want to do about it

Once enough people are aware....change will come
 
I'm asking you because it helps my learning

The interesting thing about an MBTI site is that peoples views and behaviour can then be linked to type. Why not show an MBTI type on an MBTI forum?



Losing faith in something is a step on the road to change

But to know where to go next they have to understand what is broken and how it can be fixed

if people then drop the ball...well they were given a fair shot

But at the moment they are not being given a fair shot because they do not have the necessary information to make an informed decision

As the industrialist Ford said of the banking system:

''It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.''

This is the crux...people do not understand. This leaves them at the mercy of predatory forces who DO understand

If you are someone who does understand...and i do understand....then you have two options. You can join the predators and use your understanding to exploit the unaware and ignorant masses or you can try to alert the masses to the threat

This is a choice we must all make and as all the whistleblowers we are seeing speak out show many are now choosing to alert the masses to the threat

largely this is because the enormity of the threat is now becoming clear those whistleblowers who in the past probably thought their actions were small beer but now realise they are playing their part in a large and far reaching plot that is going to have disasterous implications for all of us f we do not act




It's not just about free choice because the system itself is constrictive....they have no choice over that



Energy flows where attention goes

If no one takes responsiblity and we all decide to play the corporate game then we're all fucked

if you give your psychic energy to the corporate game then you are feeding the beast and the more people who feed it the stronger it will grow



End the corporatocracy

Take control of the money supply off the corporate banksters and allow money to serve the people



Put the information out there and let people decide for themselves



The corporate system is sucking all the wealth away from the people

Thatcher and reagan pushed a set of policies called 'neoliberalism' or the 'washington consensus' which in a nutshell is about moving wealth away from the many and to the people at the top

The top 1% end up with all the wealth so that they can then buy up all the land and assets. Then once they own everything they can dictate the terms of governance

The question is whether or not people will allow this to happen; at the moment they know something is wrong but don;t yet have the direction to deal with it

Understanding how things work brings direction



I don't think the corporate slaves are happy; i think they're trapped in their own hell and want everyone else to join them there



People have been duped

Information needs to be shared around so that they can understand what is happening and then make free will decisions about what they want to do about it

Once enough people are aware....change will come

I don't know my type. It is irrelevant to the discussion either way.

As I replied to the other thread... We will see.
 
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I don't know my type.

You could take a test and answer the questions honestly

It is irrelevant to the discussion either way.

Not if there are MBTI correlations to apathy

The threadstarter is for example an INFJ asking why the fuck no one seems to care

If ENTJ's then post in the thread saying they don't really feel anything about other people, i'd say that is important info in the grand scheme of MBTI based exploration of which we are all each others guinea pigs

As I replied to the other thread... We will see.

Change is coming one way or another
 
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