What is a human?

[GracieRuth]

What sets us apart from other animals? It's more than just building a better mouse trap. There is a whole art/music/religion/symbolic element to humanity that we simply don't see any equivalent in any other species. An essential part of that dimension is EMPATHY. We do see empathy in other species, but add it to our ability to think forward to consequences, we're pretty advanced. My question is, if an individual lacks empathy, are they human?

I'm in a state of shock from reading the following article:
Missouri teen describes killing girl, 9, as

 

[Quiet]

Pretty disgusting, I agree.

Humans are infinitely more comlex than animals due to the nature of our physiology and brain. Humans can lie, they can reason, they can imagine and they can create. Humans have much more potential, for both good and bad.

This girl in the article is not psychologically healthy. Sometimes there is a biological and chemical basis for pyschological disorders, as well as cultural and environmental factors. People that have these disorders are unable to think, reason and feel, like healthy humans. Their brains and physiology are physically different from 'normal' humans.
People with anti-social personality disorder may be able to see why there are certain rules in society but they are unable to see why these rules are important or relavant to them, they do not have the psychological capacity to empathise with another. Some psychopaths may be able to lead productive lives and even succeed in certain environments in spite of, and sometimes, because of their nature. Such environments may include war, crisis situations, capitalistic business, political situations and agressive environments and cultures etc.

While it is possible to empathise and understand why people may be the way they are, it is just as important to undertand that all actions have consequences.
All people need to be accountable for their actions, regardless for the reasons of their behaviour. This girl is dangerous, unpredictable and volatile. She needs to be punished for her crime. It is difficult to guage whether or not she can be rehabilitated or not. She needs to isolated from society so that she cant hurt anyone else. People are scary when they are unaware of the 'real' consequences of their behaviour, and are unwilling or uanble to take responsibilty for their actions.

I undertsand why you are thinking shoot it, shoot it! That was my initial reaction too, like putting down an animal that is clearly dangerous. I would probably want to explore the possibility of rehabiliation first though. I don't have a problem with the death penalty per se if the person is guilty without any reasonable doubt. I dont see why the state should fund prisons for people that are dangerous and unable to be rehabilitated, especailly pedophiles (they are they scum of the earth). Some people suggest to me that maybe we should exile them to a life of hard labour but I personally think it is more merciful to them to kill them rather than deny them freedom forever.


The true human being is the meaning of the universe. He is a dancing star. He is the exploding singularity with infinite possibilities- Zindell

 

[the]

I personally enjoy the ambiguity and that I dont have to pin down what a human is. I know it when I see it, unless someone is going out of their way to fool me.

 

[acd]

I'd say that girl is a defective human and a dangerous human, but still a human and probably a human with some serious mental problems.

Where do you draw the line at declaring humans not humans?
Why even bother declaring someone not human?
Just to kill them?

 

[Sai]

i think humans are the same shit that any other animal, and in some cases even worse.

 

[Peppermint]

Why even bother declaring someone not human?
Just to kill them?

Ironically, I think declaring someone not human makes a lack of empathy towards them justifiable, necessary even.

 

[the]

i think humans are the same shit that any other animal, and in some cases even worse.

This doesn't even make sense. I declare you inhuman.

Ironically, I think declaring someone not human makes a lack of empathy towards them justifiable, necessary even.

How is that ironic?

 

[hush]

What sets us apart from other animals?

Not much.

What is a human? It's this sort of strange animal with a limited amount of hair on most of their body, but with an odd concentration of hair on their heads. I guess because their heads are important or something.

I think I spotted one the other day.

To me, though, seriously, a human is a human, no matter what they do. Additionally, I don't think committing atrocities and killing makes someone inhuman. It's actually a very human thing to do and a part of human nature that can't be deemed "inhuman." Actually, something that sets humans apart from most other animals is that they kill for no reason, for sport. For most animals, this would be a waste of precious energy.

Humans aren't monsters. They are humans, always human. Humans need to take responsibility for what they do, recognize what their fellow humans do, and not explain it away as being monstrous.

You think we should kill killers? There is enough death in this world.

 

[Sai]

Not much.

What is a human? It's this sort of strange animal with a limited amount of hair on most of their body, but with an odd concentration of hair on their heads. I guess because their heads are important or something.

I think I spotted one the other day.

To me, though, seriously, a human is a human, no matter what they do. Additionally, I don't think committing atrocities and killing makes someone inhuman. It's actually a very human thing to do and a part of human nature that can't be deemed "inhuman." Actually, something that sets humans apart from most other animals is that they kill for no reason, for sport. For most animals, this would be a waste of precious energy.

Humans aren't monsters. They are humans, always human. Humans need to take responsibility for what they do, recognize what their fellow humans do, and not explain it away as being monstrous.

You think we should kill killers? There is enough death in this world.

absolute truth! people keep dehumanizing murderers and other misfits of society when in reality thats what makes humans be humans. Isnt the army killing thousands of kids ? but they are heroes not monsters, only because mainstream society says so. Pure Hypocrisy. Then everybody is cheering up to kill this girl without mercy but they arent sadist, because of course she is not a human being! Accept it, humans are violent and cruel, and we love to kill and hurt others for pleasure or vengeance. We are no different from any other beast on this planet, we just have stupid excuses to make us feel superior when in reality we are a living contradiction.

 

[Sai]

grab a history book and read some pages, what defines humans? cruelty. The Roman empire! of the glory the cradle of western civilization! yes they brought all the marvels and the technology and "humanism", but in the sands of the Colosseum the blood of innocents was spilled in tons with the most brutal sadism for the enjoyment of the people.
But of course! those slaughtered there by the romans weren't considered humans. Thats the heart and soul of western civilization, always killing and raping in the name of reason, god or any other bullshit. And the trick to that is always dehumanizing the enemy.

 

[the]

Thats the heart and soul of western civilization, always killing and raping in the name of reason

This one always seemed a bit peculiar to me given than atheists try to lord reason over their religion debate opponents.

 

[muir]

I think a sick society will inevitably create some sick people

Although these cases of murder and cruelty are disturbing and impact heavily on those involved they don't impact on that many people

I would argue that the people with no conscience that we all need to worry about and get to grips with are the people leading us

I remember reading an article about psycopathy once. It argued that those willing to lie and cheat without guilt tend to rise quicker than those that play fair. they also surround themselves with 'yes men' who will support their position.

So we have the problem of all the unfeeling scum rising to the surface and those are the people we really need to worry about because their actions impact on all of us

Unfeeling or no, they're still humans and the capacity for dark and light is in all of us. The sensible question is 'how do we organise ourselves in such a way as to protect ourselves from the excesses of the darker side of human nature?'

We currently live in a state capitalist society which is highly hierarchical. It is also very coercive. So it is fair to call it a coercive hierarchy. When you have a hierarchy then cruel peole can climb it and rule it from the top. History is full of despotic leaders.

Isn't it time we stopped collectively banging our heads against the brick wall and all realised that we need to do away with heirarchies and instead organise ourselves from the bottom up through workers councils and peoples assemblies? In order to stop cruel unfeeling people missusing resources and technology we need to ensure that these things are owned by everyone collectively

If everyone has equal say, the voice and aims of the psycopaths will be watered down by those of the collective, thereby keeping us all much safer

 

[muir]

There should be a speech bubble from that dudes mouth saying 'don't move or the penis gets it!'

 

[Sai]

This one always seemed a bit peculiar to me given than atheists try to lord reason over their religion debate opponents.

oh religion is even worse! the conquest of the americas by the spaniards! the crusades the witch burnings oh so many horrible things! even the holocaust! all in gods name

 

[the]

oh religion is even worse! the conquest of the americas by the spaniards! the crusades the witch burnings oh so many horrible things! even the holocaust! all in gods name

Oh lord here we go.

 

[Vict]

An animal capable of a great many things.

 

[Stella]

Are we human?










Or are we dancer?

[STRIKE]Okay. Done. Had to.[/STRIKE]

But yes. Human is homo sapiens. It means you are comprised of human DNA. That's all that's needed to be a human. To be a person is another thing, and that requires so much more.

 

[Majesty]

An essential part of that dimension is EMPATHY. We do see empathy in other species, but add it to our ability to think forward to consequences, we're pretty advanced. My question is, if an individual lacks empathy, are they human?*

A lot of animals can feel empathy too. It's even considered a trait of intelligence in animals. While it may not be exactly the same as human empathy, it can definitely be considered like it.

Missouri teen describes killing girl, 9, as ‘enjoyable’ experience before heading to church
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio.../06/gIQArgZJuQ_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop

They make a modest effort to "explain away" her complete utter lack of conscience by noting she had felt angry and depressed for a while. What? Psychopaths in their own narcissistic minds can't feel depressed?

That's the point of psychopathy, having no empathy. o_o


Anyways I dont understand why someone who'd lack empathy wouldn't be a human. Might as well say that a jaguar who can't run isn't a jaguar?



Btw the concrete difference between humans and every other animal is that humans have feet. xD

 

[Soulful]

Pretty disgusting, I agree.

Humans are infinitely more comlex than animals due to the nature of our physiology and brain. Humans can lie, they can reason, they can imagine and they can create. Humans have much more potential, for both good and bad.

This girl in the article is not psychologically healthy. Sometimes there is a biological and chemical basis for pyschological disorders, as well as cultural and environmental factors. People that have these disorders are unable to think, reason and feel, like healthy humans. Their brains and physiology are physically different from 'normal' humans.
People with anti-social personality disorder may be able to see why there are certain rules in society but they are unable to see why these rules are important or relavant to them, they do not have the psychological capacity to empathise with another. Some psychopaths may be able to lead productive lives and even succeed in certain environments in spite of, and sometimes, because of their nature. Such environments may include war, crisis situations, capitalistic business, political situations and agressive environments and cultures etc.

While it is possible to empathise and understand why people may be the way they are, it is just as important to undertand that all actions have consequences.
All people need to be accountable for their actions, regardless for the reasons of their behaviour. This girl is dangerous, unpredictable and volatile. She needs to be punished for her crime. It is difficult to guage whether or not she can be rehabilitated or not. She needs to isolated from society so that she cant hurt anyone else. People are scary when they are unaware of the 'real' consequences of their behaviour, and are unwilling or uanble to take responsibilty for their actions.

I undertsand why you are thinking shoot it, shoot it! That was my initial reaction too, like putting down an animal that is clearly dangerous. I would probably want to explore the possibility of rehabiliation first though. I don't have a problem with the death penalty per se if the person is guilty without any reasonable doubt. I dont see why the state should fund prisons for people that are dangerous and unable to be rehabilitated, especailly pedophiles (they are they scum of the earth). Some people suggest to me that maybe we should exile them to a life of hard labour but I personally think it is more merciful to them to kill them rather than deny them freedom forever.


The true human being is the meaning of the universe. He is a dancing star. He is the exploding singularity with infinite possibilities- Zindell

*like* I agree with your explanation of a difference in psychology that accounts for the lack of empathy and ability to relate to others. People like that are scary, there are no two ways about it.

--

I'd hesitate to say they need to be treated like a rabid wild animal and put down. So the question that gets put forth is what to do with them? I strongly question whether they can genuinely be rehabilitated if they lack the neuronal capacity for social co-existence; I also question, however, locking them up for life. While it seems like a genuinely sound decision as far as public safety goes, its problematic in its own right.

With that, I'm also hesitant to label this kind of psychology as a disorder, although that's probably the simplest way in which to humanize such an individual against the inevitable backlash of society (monster, evil, etc.).

 

[CindyLou]

I wouldn't go as far to say empathy is what makes us human; infants don't have empathy.

I would define lack of empathy one of the characteristics of evil.