Was Adam made from Eve and not the other way around?

[Paladin-X]

In studying chromosomes for my developmental psych midterm tomorrow, an interesting notion occurred to me...

In humans, if the X chromosomes contain most of the genetic information, and the Y chromosome only provides a little bit, almost like a modifer if you will; and X is related to female and Y is related to male; then one could conclude that Adam came from Eve and not vice versa, because it was the female chromosome that gets modified to make a male and not vice versa. Or rather, Y gets added to X to make a male, but an X or an XX is always female. Therefore nothing needs to be added or changed to make a female.

NOTE: In case anyone wants to make the argument that both men and women have X chromosomes and therefore X does not relate to female gender specifically, then I encourage you to look up Turner's Syndrome. They have only the X chromosome and are female.

 

[SealHammer]

Because the book was written before biology was even a concept, no, probably not.

 

[Paladin-X]

Because the book was written before biology was even a concept, no, probably not.

Then perhaps the story should be amended? Instead of taking a rib from Adam to make Eve, God could have took out the extra rib in the Eve "clone," to give him a penis.

 

[SealHammer]

Then perhaps the story should be amended? Instead of taking a rib from Adam to make Eve, God took out the extra rib in the Eve clone, to give Adam a penis.

Yeah, but then what would he do with those pesky breasts?

 

[Paladin-X]

Yeah, but then what would he do with those pesky breasts?

Shrunk and turned them into testicles. But left the nipples. And that's why men have nipples.

 

[barbad0s]

Um well, let's ignore the biblical connotations for now.

You are sort of right, in that XY is a modification of XX, but it's not exactly like "male came from female". Before sexual reproduction had evolved in life, cells only reproduced asexually. At some point, species began to reproduce genomes that coded for different sexes, as a result of mutation and genetic variation. There are still many species out there that reproduce asexually, but sexual reproduction offers many reproductive benefits to a species.

Note that this XX/XY type of sex determination is only relevant for certain types of organisms, such as mammals, some insects, and some plants. Many other organisms have different kind of chromosomal sex determination. In some species it is the double-letter chromosome that is the male one, instead of the female as it is in humans.

It's been a while since I've studied biology so maybe someone else should hl3p fill in any holes I've missed.

Shrunk and turned them into testicles. But left the nipples. And that's why men have nipples.

This seems legit.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION]

Yup that pretty much sums it up.

I'd add though that it isn't the Y chromosome that triggers maleness, but rather a specific gene - in humans it is the SRY gene. SRY just so happens to live in the Y chromosome but the gene itself turns on the switch for male. If it were on an X chromosome it would still do the same thing (and this does happen rarely in humans where an XX human appears male because one X obtained the SRY gene)

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=5437]Paladin-X[/MENTION]

Also this does not work from a logical standpoint as such (assuming that any of it is true in the first place)

XX being female does not imply that it came first. If you start with XY to begin with and remove the Y for an X, you'd get the same result. Some things are made by subtraction.

 

[Paladin-X]

[MENTION=5437]Paladin-X[/MENTION]

Also this does not work from a logical standpoint as such (assuming that any of it is true in the first place)

XX being female does not imply that it came first. If you start with XY to begin with and remove the Y for an X, you'd get the same result. Some things are made by subtraction.

It doesn't work that way though. The ovum provides the X and the sperm provides the second X or the Y. The two together make up the XX or the XY. There's no subtraction. I also prefer my made-up theory, thanks to [MENTION=6650]SealHammer[/MENTION], because it explains why men have nipples in my absurd reality.

 

[sprinkles]

It doesn't work that way though. The ovum provides the X and the sperm provides the second X or the Y. The two together make up the XX or the XY. There's no subtraction. I also prefer my made-up theory, thanks to [MENTION=6650]SealHammer[/MENTION], because it explains why men have nipples in my absurd reality.

According to the story Adam was not born, he was made, so this is entirely irrelevant.

 

[Paladin-X]

According to the story Adam was not born, he was made, so this is entirely irrelevant.

Yes, and I'm saying he was made from Eve...

 

[sprinkles]

Yes, and I'm saying he was made from Eve...

Your reason for saying that is not coherent though since the creation story does not follow the rules of genetics in the slightest.

Neither one used egg or sperm, they were magicked up as adults apparently. There is no grounds to conclude that Eve came first based on the workings of genetics since it's a deus ex machina to begin with.

 

[CindyLou]

Then perhaps the story should be amended? Instead of taking a rib from Adam to make Eve, God could have took out the extra rib in the Eve "clone," to give him a penis.

lol

 

[Paladin-X]

Your reason for saying that is not coherent though since the creation story does not follow the rules of genetics in the slightest.

Neither one used egg or sperm, they were magicked up as adults apparently. There is no grounds to conclude that Eve came first based on the workings of genetics since it's a deus ex machina to begin with.

Ugh... you are kind of a party pooping debbie downer.

You are not making sense to me. What does sperm or egg have to do with my original statement?

My logic is that if X contains the majority of human genetic information, and X is related to Female, then woman came first because something gets added to X to make man. X is the foundation. So if man came first, then either X would be related to Male or Y would be the foundational chromosome.

 

[the]

No because that isn't the story. If you want to write a new story go for it.

 

[sprinkles]

Ugh... you are kind of a party pooping debbie downer.

You are not making sense to me. What does sperm or egg have to do with my original statement?

My logic is that if X contains the majority of human genetic information, and X is related to Female, then woman came first because something gets added to X to make man. X is the foundation. So if man came first, then either X would be related to Male or Y would be the foundational chromosome.

If X is female then female already existed in Adam and it was only necessary to remove the Y and replace it with an X (which already existed)
In that case everything needed was already there and the Y was simply taken out to leave a female like I already tried to tell you.

If Eve is made from a part of Adam, it would clearly be the X part that he already had. In your scenario the Y does not yet exist before Eve so Adam would not be entirely made from Eve.

 

[Paladin-X]

No because that isn't the story. If you want to write a new story go for it.

I'm tempted. I have the beginnings of a fantastic new version. I wonder if anyone has written a parody of the Bible in its entirety.

 

[Paladin-X]

If X is female then female already existed in Adam and it was only necessary to remove the Y and replace it with an X (which already existed)
In that case everything needed was already there and the Y was simply taken out to leave a female like I already tried to tell you.

If Eve is made from a part of Adam, it would clearly be the X part that he already had. In your scenario the Y does not yet exist before Eve so Adam would not be entirely made from Eve.

I see your perspective now. It's an interesting take.

However, I see it more as an alternative explanation, rather than refuting mine. However, I accept both explanations as valid. I'll have to contemplate them some more.

 

[the]

I'm tempted. I have the beginnings of a fantastic new version. I wonder if anyone has written a parody of the Bible in its entirety.

Yes several times.

 

[Apone]

What [MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION] said.

Sexual reproduction is about diversification, which is an evolutionary advantage because it helps us to adapt and evolve and synthesize new kinds of people/animals through complex combinations of DNA as opposed to mutations within single-cell organisms or whatever it was that the ocean held before genetic diversification took off. Without each other both genders still create life-- they're just far less complex forms(both sperm and eggs are alive).

I've heard (feminist) arguments that the female principle is primordial because we're all from the ocean and the ocean is a womb and the moon influences the tides and menstruation cycles are similar to lunar cycles, and the penis only appeared long after this state of perfect feminine nature had existed (which was obviously the point where everything went horribly horribly wrong)… but they're mostly just abstractions and metaphors and are in no way grounded in objective reality.

Nature is not inherently feminine or masculine-- the genders created each other. To say that one created the other is to ascribe sex characteristics to a perfectly androgynous state.