True change requires spiritual transformation

Satya

Satya

C'est la vie
Retired Staff
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While working on the Detox clinic the other day, one of the psychiatrists on staff was speaking to a client about the best possible outpatient services available for them once they were discharged from inpatient. He was advocating strongly that the client look into a faith based program. He argued that his former professor and mentor, a rather famous atheist psychiatrist, made a rather strong assertion. That psychiatrist argued,

"Overcoming addiction almost always requires a complete spiritual transformation."

As I have worked with some clients, I have noticed that those who can turn to one faith or another generally do significantly better, often because that is all they have. They may have no support from family or friends, no financial resources, no access to health care, and no home in which to return. However, their respective faith allows them some solace and serves as a strong coping strategy. The interesting thing about faith based programs is that they almost universally share the idea of surrendering yourself completely and looking to an external spiritual source for the strength needed to persevere.

As such, the assertion the doctor made led me wonder about a few things...

What is a spiritual transformation?
How is this transformation related to faith?
How does this transformation change a person's very cognition and behavior to the point they could even overcome addiction?
Does true change require spiritual transformation?
 
Satya said:
While working on the Detox clinic the other day, one of the psychiatrists on staff was speaking to a client about the best possible outpatient services available for them once they were discharged from inpatient. He was advocating strongly that the client look into a faith based program. He argued that his former professor and mentor, a rather famous atheist psychiatrist, made a rather strong assertion. That psychiatrist argued,

"Overcoming addiction almost always requires a complete spiritual transformation."

As I have worked with some clients, I have noticed that those who can turn to one faith or another generally do significantly better, often because that is all they have. They may have no support from family or friends, no financial resources, no access to health care, and no home in which to return. However, their respective faith allows them some solace and serves as a strong coping strategy. The interesting thing about faith based programs is that they almost universally share the idea of surrendering yourself completely and looking to an external spiritual source for the strength needed to persevere.

As such, the assertion the doctor made led me wonder about a few things...

What is a spiritual transformation?

I would think a spiritual transformation would be you giving up your problems to a higher power. And realizing that others share the same faults and problems you do. I would think a true transformation would be if the person was able to actually change their behavior. No matter what it is.

How is this transformation related to faith?

You know I think it comes from moving past your past. And having a desire to serve God.

How does this transformation change a person's very cognition and behavior to the point they could even overcome addiction?

I think for a time it will. It really depends on the person and situation. From the friends I have known I can say that they were great in treatment but went back to their addictions after awhile. My buddy spent a year in a christian rehab center. Drinks less than he did before. So that's an improvement. And we talk about God. Something we never did before.

Does true change require spiritual transformation?

Maybe? Not really sure. I find that any change is very hard to do. Giving up your problems to a higher power frees you up too do other things with your life. People like to have habits. You could make God a habit. Problem is what do you do when God don't work?
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Posted my answers above....
 
Satya said:
..."Overcoming addiction almost always requires a complete spiritual transformation." ...

What is a spiritual transformation?
How is this transformation related to faith?
How does this transformation change a person's very cognition and behavior to the point they could even overcome addiction?
Does true change require spiritual transformation?
Click to expand...
(Answering -indirectly- the first two, and possibly the third questions)


There are two approaches to an answer:
1. One that presupposes that there is no real external, objective basis for faith/spirituality.
2. One that presupposes that there is a God... and that God is approachable.

A partial spiritual transformation could be read to mean a subjective change towards elements of non-believing spirituality.
A complete spiritual transformation could be read to mean a subjective change towards belief in a real, external God.
(The former is partial because it involves the person changing his/her will; the latter is more complete because it involves the assent of the intellect).


Tangible benefits in either case could point to two things:
1. That people emerge from addiction/attachment to harmful things better, because people generally can function better when subjectively believing.
2. That the former is true, and that there is indeed external spiritual assistance from a God to people with faith.


My position is that both are true: that belief in itself is beneficial; and that there is indeed a benign God who assists the faithful.
 
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I also thought about that God and Christ offer forgiveness. In reality they are really all who do. People don't. People are why others turn into addicts. Either by example or through some form of pressure. God frees you from this pressure. Something the addict needs in order to be free. God also takes the focus away from the self and makes the self selfless. Just a thought I had. Nothing more....
 
Does Islam throw self out the door? Just curious.
 
I fall into one of those oddball religions that don't look externally for answers. I can say from experience, that in terms of people recovering from mental issues, having to reflect on yourself and look internally can be more than a lot of people can handle; that's where the problems started to begin with. Focusing externally allows a "vent" for all those issues. It's a way to wipe your hands of it and, as the phrase goes, "let go and let God".

Now, I found people who are fairly stable to start with but get beat down by the external world find it easier to focus on a more "internal" religion. There isn't as much interference going on inside their heads, so their view isn't as clouded as the other group.
 
Spiritual transformation is a lifelong process...it truly never ends. However, it often begins as a big change in modes. In many understandings, reconciliation and peace are offered, as well as a relationship with a Divine Love. This dynamic can impart an inner dignity and hope that may help motivate someone to see themselves differently and make movements in their life that are different than before. The experience of this can be quite vivid.

One does find though, as time goes on, that transformation is a process that is never fully complete. This is because spiritual transformation is ultimately not about "getting everything right" but about an essential, life-giving relationship. If the spiritual system one engages in does not address this shift adequately, moving the person into deeper understanding, then the experience of that initial awakening can be overshadowed.

I know a great deal of work goes on (on many levels) regarding the dynamic between addiction, recovery (of all kinds) and spiritual transformation. I have little direct, in-depth experience in this specific discussion...I have only heard it talked about by people with a great deal of knowledge on the subject and equally great compassion.

I think it is definitely something worth giving serious weight to....all I would highlight is the intensity of that initial awakening (with certain transformative effects) versus the more long-term, complex mode of life transformation.
 
Satya said:
The interesting thing about faith based programs is that they almost universally share the idea of surrendering yourself completely and looking to an external spiritual source for the strength needed to persevere.

As such, the assertion the doctor made led me wonder about a few things...

What is a spiritual transformation?
How is this transformation related to faith?
How does this transformation change a person's very cognition and behavior to the point they could even overcome addiction?
Does true change require spiritual transformation?
Click to expand...

the spiritual source of strength is only outside of you in that the idea came from someone else. saying 'you are the universe' might be too much for some to handle. everything is subjective, including the outside objective reality that is consequently processed and interpreted through your nervous system. spirituality is the realization that you are One with the universe. that is, the observation and the observer.

faith religions like christianity are quite useful from a follower perspective (not so useful when they are used to manipulate people and do 'bad' things). having 'god is in control' and 'god has good things coming my way' as well as 'my soul is eternal' alleviates a lot of stress and anxiety that comes with everyday struggles.

it's a trick to relieve worry and relax your body, creating good vibes and making you legitimately happy with yourself and your temporary death.
 
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Kmal said:
it's a trick to relieve worry and relax your body, creating good vibes and making you legitimately happy with yourself and your temporary death.
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So I might better understand your observations, could you elaborate on "it's a trick" ? Just curious...
 
@just me manipulating your body through your mind. a clever way of inducing a feeling of oneness with the universe that is often attributed to 'god.'
 
Flavus Aquila said:
(Answering -indirectly- the first two, and possibly the third questions)


There are two approaches to an answer:
1. One that presupposes that there is no real external, objective basis for faith/spirituality.
2. One that presupposes that there is a God... and that God is approachable.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I don't fall within your dichotomy.

3. One that presupposes that it is humanly impossible to find true meaning in life since meaning is simply an illusion of the human ego.

The third approach, is the basis of existentialism. Meaning becomes real because humans choose to make it real, and therefore it becomes objective in our subjective world. We, in turn, choose meaning in our life, whether internal or external, and it becomes real to us as individuals because our egos make it real. Just like abstract concepts like "freedom" and "purity" are only real within human experience and are defined within human experience, concepts like "God" and "hope" are real to us because we choose to make them real.

As such, the basis of our ego, namely our thoughts, emotions, and perceptions, are the foundation by which we define meaning. The absurdity of such rejects both of your earlier notions. There is no way to declare there is any "objective" basis for or against spirituality since all human experience is inherently subjective. An objective basis for faith could or could not exist outside of human experience, but it is impossible to find it because we cannot step outside of human experience and so it is rather absurd to even try or to state one way or another that there is an objective basis.

As such, as far as theism is concerned, the most logical approach is agnosticism since there is no discernible way to prove or disprove the existence of God. God could or could not exist, and there is no way for us to determine if God is simply an abstract creation of our own egos or an external force. God would be just as real to us either way since our egos can make him real to our own little subjective worlds. It is rather pointless to even try to determine if God does or does not exist since we have no means to separate ourselves from our egos and to determine what is external truth and what is simply human truth.
 
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Kmal said:
the spiritual source of strength is only outside of you in that the idea came from someone else. saying 'you are the universe' might be too much for some to handle. everything is subjective, including the outside objective reality that is consequently processed and interpreted through your nervous system. spirituality is the realization that you are One with the universe. that is, the observation and the observer.
Click to expand...

That would be the Carl Sagan notion expressed quite eloquently in "Pale Blue Dot". Our physical body is but just an insignificant aspect of the universe and it is our egos that draws the lines between good and bad, friend and foe, now and then, and so forth.

[youtube]p86BPM1GV8M[/youtube]

The question remains the same. How does one truly distinguish between what is real only in our minds and what is real in the external world? Can one step outside their own mind to distinguish what meaning is a creation of their ego and what meaning is objective truth? Is there really even meaning to the universe or is meaning simply an illusion of the human ego?
 
Satya said:
That would be the Carl Sagan notion expressed quite eloquently in "Pale Blue Dot". Our physical body is but just an insignificant aspect of the universe and it is our egos that draws the lines between good and bad, friend and foe, now and then, and so forth.

[youtube]p86BPM1GV8M[/youtube]
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insignificant from whos perspective? yours? hopefully not. someone elses? who gives a fuck.

our physical body is only an insignificant part of ourselves. or is that what you were meaning? ;)

The question remains the same. How does one truly distinguish between what is real only in our minds and what is real in the external world? Can one step outside their own mind to distinguish what meaning is a creation of their ego and what meaning is objective truth?
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what is real in our mind is what is inside our mind. the 'mind' (whatever that is) and its contents are functionally identical. our minds make a model of the outside reality.
 
True change requires a highly intense psychological experience, whether religious or not, it can be very traumatic.
 
If we want "true" change (depending on how we define "true"...it could vary) I think it would necessarily include a spiritual dimension (again, depending on how we define "spiritual"), only because it encompasses that foundational part of ourselves. Regardless of definitions, transformation/change that is holistic, defying compartmentalization or fragmentation will generally be the more "true" and whole.
 
Kmal said:
insignificant from whos perspective? yours? hopefully not. someone elses? who gives a fuck.
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From a universal perspective.

A war and all its calamity may seem huge to someone who lives through it, but what if you are a hundred light years away? What if you are a hundred years in the future? What is the meaning of that war then? How significant is it? Our egos dictate the meaning.

our physical body is only an insignificant part of ourselves. or is that what you were meaning? ;)
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Our ego is what ascribes value, so in a sense, yes. Our bodies are simply a complex composition of matter.

what is real in our mind is what is inside our mind. the 'mind' (whatever that is) and its contents are functionally identical. our minds make a model of the outside reality.
Click to expand...
Correct. The point is that since we cannot step outside our own minds, we cannot discern with any great certainty what is simply truth generated by our minds and what is truly truth in the external world. The closest we may come is mathematical deductions but those don't lend themselves very well to the concept of human "meaning". The notion that 1+1=2 does not do much to answer the spiritual questions of why humans exist and what is the purpose of life. If anything, mathematical deductions demonstrate that the human mind is desperately trying to find order and meaning in a cosmos that is highly chaotic and uncaring. All human existence could be extinguished in an instant by a random asteroid and it would be not much different in the universal perspective than skipping a rock off a pond. Hence the sense of insignificance I mentioned before.
 
[MENTION=20]Satya[/MENTION] something interesting i noticed--
we cannot discern with any great certainty what is simply truth generated by our minds and what is truly truth in the external world.
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what is truth in our mind-- what is truth in the external world.
someone has to observe said truth in the external world, huh? making it a truth in their mind. for an observation of truth to be made, an observer is needed. any truth in the 'external world' has to be observed, making it subjective.
 
AhSver said:
True change requires a highly intense psychological experience, whether religious or not, it can be very traumatic.
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I like this notion of trauma. Trauma is simply mental injury and I think in a way the mind must be broken in order to mend it in a different way. It seems similar to when a bone heals wrong and does not function well, and a doctor has to break it again so that it may heal correctly. Perhaps that is the notion of "spiritual transformation". The addict's mind must be broken down psychologically before it can be rebuilt so that it is functional and free of addiction and thus a "complete transformation" takes place. I'm not really sure how we differentiate between what is "spiritual" and what is "psychological".
 
Satya said:
The point is that since we cannot step outside our own minds, we cannot discern with any great certainty what is simply truth generated by our minds and what is truly truth in the external world.
Click to expand...
This is interesting in that the transformative systems I am familar with almost necessitate a movement beyond our own minds and our own egos. As vital and as central as our egos are to our humanity, there is something mysterious that is past them, and it is this experience that paves the way to truer tranformation.
 
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