Thoughts on interactions
- Thread starter Jana
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I think Fe would play a very big part. Do INTJs use masks similarly?
In the case of an Fe-dom however, or any extravert, I would think that
the way they behave in social situations is pretty representative of who
they are, since they are making use of their dominant function. So, per-
haps any introvert would describe themself as having a mask a lot of the
time in social situations?
Ni would certainly affect the kind of mask (or costume) being worn.
I think its more common, as Ni is not apt to "care" as much as Ne, if concepts are understood by other people. Not sure if that came out right.
In my experience, yes. Actually, all introverted types have "masks", but with Ni-doms it's not masks as much as it's full-blown characters. Think Sacha Cohen Baron playing Bruno, Borat, Ali G, and he is apparently INTJ. It's part of the Ni's agenda to reach a certain conclusion by using their Fe/Te to manipulate people/system a certain way. This is why there's so much variance among Ni-dominants, they appear how they want to be perceived. If there's one thing that's common between my INTJ friend and myself, it's that we both consciously manipulate our images... and succeed at it. It's slightly disconcerting from a third-person perspective.
And thats what I meant by what I said. Thanks.
Ni isn't likely to say where its going, if it knows it will affect the conclusion in a way that it doesn't like. Ne doesn't care/can't help it, because what's a conclusion?!!?!
So, Ni-doms are able to create characters in their mind, and then
flawlessly take on that character in the real world, to such a high
degree that any observer would think that they are in fact really
like that.
Would you say that other types are unable to do this and that this
behaviour therefore indicates that one has strong Ni? Or can other
types achieve a similar sort of thing, as far as an observer can tell,
but with the construction of the character being different?
For example, an Si user would probably be excellent at playing as a
character by directly mimicking the personality of someone else, as
opposed to creating them from their own understanding, and each
of the other types should similarly be able to mask their own selves,
but through different means.
It may however be the case that it is the Ni's alone who are able to
completely create the image of a character and take it on, essentially
becoming Ali G. What are the implications of this? Does this mean
that the best method actors are of these types? Are the best authors
- or at least, the ones best at creating complete characters, and then
playing out their interaction in achieving the goal of the story - also
going to be Ni's?
flawlessly take on that character in the real world, to such a high
degree that any observer would think that they are in fact really
like that.
Would you say that other types are unable to do this and that this
behaviour therefore indicates that one has strong Ni? Or can other
types achieve a similar sort of thing, as far as an observer can tell,
but with the construction of the character being different?
For example, an Si user would probably be excellent at playing as a
character by directly mimicking the personality of someone else, as
opposed to creating them from their own understanding, and each
of the other types should similarly be able to mask their own selves,
but through different means.
It may however be the case that it is the Ni's alone who are able to
completely create the image of a character and take it on, essentially
becoming Ali G. What are the implications of this? Does this mean
that the best method actors are of these types? Are the best authors
- or at least, the ones best at creating complete characters, and then
playing out their interaction in achieving the goal of the story - also
going to be Ni's?
I'm an INTJ and I don't really have any masks at all. What I do is just get very quiet and impassive when I'm not comfortable. I honestly did not know that feeler types did any masking at all! Thought you were all very cards face up types!
[MENTION=3538]Arsal[/MENTION]
Very precise and accurate.
But what when we make mask, but after while we don't like it any more. It is as some part of me keep playing the role, while other screams "no, no, no
"
While you may not do it, do you think you would be -able- to do it?
Fe basically tries to fit into the social situation - consciously altering
behaviour in order to achieve a particular goal, whether that be harm-
onious interaction, or whatever else.
@Arsal
Very precise and accurate.
But what when we make mask, but after while we don't like it any more. It is as some part of me keep playing the role, while other screams "no, no, no
Then it's time for a new role.
Also, it is important to have people in your life who you don't
have to play a role for. So long as you can be yourself around
someone, how you are around others won't be too important.
Could you explain or link to something that explains? I am a 3w2 and I've never heard of this bias although admittedly I am fairly new to the atmosphere of people surrounding the enneagram.
Having to extrovert or demonstrate too much extroverted energy especially when wearing masks can create feelings of insecurity and a sense of interpersonal violation or feel as if you're putting too much stress on your inner introvert, especially when extroversion requires you to share information about the self or be more expressive, outgoing or engaging, than you'd normally be.
Doing this too often causes emotional leakage, where you begin to feel drained and exhausted. As a result, there's a feeling of being overexposed. You feel as if the boundary between your inner and outer world have liquified, and there's now a feeling of having exposed yourself to the elements. It's a weird feeling. You don't know where you end and the rest of the world begins. You feel more fluid, as if losing your consistency, rather than feeling a firm sense of identity or sense of continuity.
Doing this too often causes emotional leakage, where you begin to feel drained and exhausted. As a result, there's a feeling of being overexposed. You feel as if the boundary between your inner and outer world have liquified, and there's now a feeling of having exposed yourself to the elements. It's a weird feeling. You don't know where you end and the rest of the world begins. You feel more fluid, as if losing your consistency, rather than feeling a firm sense of identity or sense of continuity.
I'm INTJ and in general I don't use masks. What you see is what you get. The thing is, I am complex and it takes awhile to see all of who I am. I'm not even sure it is possible since I even surprise myself. Generally, if you want to know something about me ask, I will answer as honestly as I can or refuse. The refusal will usually be for protection of myself. People eventually catch on to this particular vulnerability and use a series of questions to figure out positions I may be trying to hide. It's uncomfortable. However, you have not really gained an upper hand on me as you may believe. I will simply come to peace with the revelation in my mind and adjust all future decisions to compensate. Do not think that you can manipulate me because you know my secrets. There is a bit of the kamikaze in me.
[Caveat: The below is a reflection of my Ni running crazy with ideas and creating connections that might or might not be there. So take it as a grain of salt; these are just my opinions. My choice of words is intuitive and arbitrary and does not reflect any canonical source.]
I'm sure other types are able to do this, but Ni-doms are most likely to do it.
My sense is that it has to do with the nature of Intuition. The dominant function is one we associate with the most, and therefore, it is reasonable to call it the strongest indicator of our "Identity". If we take this to be true, then Feeling and Thinking dominant persons are most likely to be stable and consistent with their Identity, as the judging preference would have the strongest pull over their overall personality. Even as they develop their lower functions, their priorities ultimately remain the same, as the lower functions are shaped according to the dominant functions. The "sense of self" is easy to see and measure.
With Perceiving functions, it is a little different. My understanding is that Sensing has to do with experience of the concrete, and so I'm guessing, Sensing dominants would have their Identity associated with their experiences and their environments. As they develop further, they let themselves be swayed by what they experience and what they see, feel, sense, etc. Again, the "sense of self" is measured by the experiences the person has had.
Compared to these, Intuition is almost alien. Intuition dominants associate with the connections, abstractions and patterns behind the concrete world, which makes them slightly detached from the concrete reality. Pair it with Introversion, and you have a function that is set up for complete disassociation from the external world.
This, I reckon, makes Ni-doms most likely to be able to switch between different personae, and find it least troublesome to method-act, because their dominant function doesn't have an pull that pertains to external or concrete details over their Identity. The pull exists, but it is very internal, and pertains to ideals (e.g. in my case, symmetry, design, conclusions). So Ni-doms seek to fulfill these ideals, ultimately, while letting their lower functions (Fe/Te, Fi/Ti, Se) help the individual reach the dominant function's agenda.
For that matter, it's not necessarily that all Ni-doms method act, it's just they are more likely to do it, for any number of reasons. It's the kind of thing Louis CK (INFJ) does in his comedy; he pushes people. He purposely says mean and ugly things, just to make a point. However, you can tell he's a genuinely nice person and isn't evil or racist or any number of adjectives you can describe him as. Same with Bill Hicks (INxJ), Norm Macdonald (INxJ), et al. [I have similar examples of some members here, but I'm not sure if I can post them with their consent].
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Another perspective to this is that Intuition is the least likely function to get validation from the external world, so Intuition dominant types often create personas to better "fit in".
I'm sure other types are able to do this, but Ni-doms are most likely to do it.
My sense is that it has to do with the nature of Intuition. The dominant function is one we associate with the most, and therefore, it is reasonable to call it the strongest indicator of our "Identity". If we take this to be true, then Feeling and Thinking dominant persons are most likely to be stable and consistent with their Identity, as the judging preference would have the strongest pull over their overall personality. Even as they develop their lower functions, their priorities ultimately remain the same, as the lower functions are shaped according to the dominant functions. The "sense of self" is easy to see and measure.
With Perceiving functions, it is a little different. My understanding is that Sensing has to do with experience of the concrete, and so I'm guessing, Sensing dominants would have their Identity associated with their experiences and their environments. As they develop further, they let themselves be swayed by what they experience and what they see, feel, sense, etc. Again, the "sense of self" is measured by the experiences the person has had.
Compared to these, Intuition is almost alien. Intuition dominants associate with the connections, abstractions and patterns behind the concrete world, which makes them slightly detached from the concrete reality. Pair it with Introversion, and you have a function that is set up for complete disassociation from the external world.
This, I reckon, makes Ni-doms most likely to be able to switch between different personae, and find it least troublesome to method-act, because their dominant function doesn't have an pull that pertains to external or concrete details over their Identity. The pull exists, but it is very internal, and pertains to ideals (e.g. in my case, symmetry, design, conclusions). So Ni-doms seek to fulfill these ideals, ultimately, while letting their lower functions (Fe/Te, Fi/Ti, Se) help the individual reach the dominant function's agenda.
For that matter, it's not necessarily that all Ni-doms method act, it's just they are more likely to do it, for any number of reasons. It's the kind of thing Louis CK (INFJ) does in his comedy; he pushes people. He purposely says mean and ugly things, just to make a point. However, you can tell he's a genuinely nice person and isn't evil or racist or any number of adjectives you can describe him as. Same with Bill Hicks (INxJ), Norm Macdonald (INxJ), et al. [I have similar examples of some members here, but I'm not sure if I can post them with their consent].
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Another perspective to this is that Intuition is the least likely function to get validation from the external world, so Intuition dominant types often create personas to better "fit in".
I'm not sure the sample size is adequate to make these assumptions, but theoretically, yes. Although I'm sure other types can achieve results of the same artistic merit, but with completely different methods of operation.
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I don't do this much but I certainly can. I don't think of it as acting and if I did it would not be successful. I simply make a decision about who I am, not who I want to be, or who I will be. Once, the decision is made, I am that person. It falls into line. No effort. My ISTJ friend once expressed a desire to be different and how she struggled to accomplish the change. I explained to her how I approached it and... LOL... she looked at me like I was insane. lol.
Everytime I think of this, I remember DesCartes quote, "I think, therefore I am."
You know this is one of the reasons I like infjsf. It's the only place where topics like this arise and I can express thoughts that have been with me for ages.