The Worst of an INTJ | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

The Worst of an INTJ

DrShephard - That does make a lot of sense. And ISTJ is entirely possible, its honestly what I guessed he was for a while before INTJ came back. My mother is INTJ to the max and I have a hard time finding those similarities between them. I don't have any hopes for miraculous change, I just want to survive him. I really don't care if he changes, I'm not the one that's going to die alone (much less deserve it). I really appreciate the insight, that helps a lot :)

donkeybals - I agree its a narcissism or other personality disorder issue, but knowing that hasn't helped me in knowing how to approach or deal with him, so I decided to try going at it from his type. I think you're right, he really gets off on control and that negativity of bringing people down to his miserable and paranoid level. But even spawns of satan have types! :p
 
making others feel like deranged, overly feeling, stupid wrecks.

logic x 1,000. thinking they are such fuckin realists when in reality they are huge pessimists.

impossible to argue with. logic always wins over emotions.

i might be projecting my own personal problems that i've had with some INTJs. but yeah.

this.
 
making others feel like deranged, overly feeling, stupid wrecks.

logic x 1,000. thinking they are such fuckin realists when in reality they are huge pessimists.

impossible to argue with. logic always wins over emotions.

i might be projecting my own personal problems that i've had with some INTJs. but yeah.
One of my brothers is INTJ and this describes him almost to a T
 
making others feel like deranged, overly feeling, stupid wrecks.

logic x 1,000. thinking they are such fuckin realists when in reality they are huge pessimists.

impossible to argue with. logic always wins over emotions.

i might be projecting my own personal problems that i've had with some INTJs. but yeah.

Aah, aerosol. I'm hurt.




Not really.
 
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donkeybals - I agree its a narcissism or other personality disorder issue, but knowing that hasn't helped me in knowing how to approach or deal with him, so I decided to try going at it from his type. I think you're right, he really gets off on control and that negativity of bringing people down to his miserable and paranoid level. But even spawns of satan have types! :p

How to stop an emotional abuser isn't an easy question to answer @op. Or contain them. They are going to do whatever they want to make you feel bad or hurt you. I've dealt with emotionally abusive people in the past as I was in the same position as you, I've tried almost every strategy in the book to get them to stop. And the answer is you aren't going to change them fully, well maybe you can but I didn't. Well I did a little bit, but they are really insecure and need constant reassurance, etc. Anyway I've tried every strategy as in fighting fire with fire, being nice to them, making them laugh (not when they are angry) etc. But the mind state is only temporary most of the time. Biggest strength you have is you know what they are. For a long time I didn't know what it was, and thought it was me. Second of all, once you recognize and have this awareness it just PISSES YOU OFF to an extreme. You see right through them and they attempt to manipulate other people, I pull the logic card. Be prepared if you "beat them" with the logic card, your dad might consider throwing you out. You need to cooperate with a very weak and insecure person imo, and this is REALLY tough to do and can be wearing. The best strategy is to make sure you silence it with expending as little energy as possible, because they are BIG energy sucks imo. You could remind him that you are his kid, and you are a family, and you should care about eachother cause that's what families do. :D Just remind him, that he isn't helping you and it makes you feel really bad. It personally didn't make me feel bad after I recognized what it was, it just made me sick to my stomach once I learned a person could be this way. But my feelings weren't hurt by comments. But yeah, I would more than likely play to his weaknesses, you know he has a deep level of insecurity and wants to control everything, so grant him security and control. This doesn't always "work", like I've said when you do stuff like this just to remain peaceful it's sometimes temporary. He wants caos and disharmony and control. I personally don't know your dad, but I'm just speaking in general about narcissistic people. If you are walking away "feeling bad" about a conversation, it probably is bad. They use sly ways of making it seem like a compliment, when in truth what they are saying is actually repulsive. They don't accept responsibility for anything. Also, if he is really bugging you don't be shy to leave the house, I've done things like go on drives, go to the library, hang out with friends, anything productive. I don't think you should ignore the problem like some suggest, but limiting time spent at your house is something to consider.

That's all I got. :( :D
 
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I am an INTJ married to an INFJ. Although I agree with what other people have posted, let me give you some examples of the interactions that can exist between these two types. #1 - both parties are very stubborn. In my experience with my INFJ, he will not abandon his view of 'the truth' whether it is positive or negative, and I will not abandon my logic. Therefore, we come to an inpass where not only emotions, but logic is thrown on the table. Back and forth, back and forth, until either I get sick of repeating myself - or my spouse gets sick of the whole conversation. Something I've watched my husband do over the past few months is adopt an 'I don't care' attitude. Even though this is hurtful at first, in the long run - he just lets me make my statement and says nothing in response. I know this is a difficult thing to do, but sometimes when speaking with an INTJ it's best just to let them, as my husband would say, have the last word. I think it takes a special quality to let someone rant at you and then roll it off your back.

With your dad, especially with the financial support, you don't want to make waves. Something an INTJ loves is to be right. So, let him rave - and let HIM assume by your silence that he is right, and you're in agreement because you're making no arguement against his case. With my husband, it doesn't matter how logical he makes his side of the arguement - I will not abandon my 'belief' for his. If it's truly ingrained in me (at that moment) even when I run out of points to back up my belief, I will just sit back and say, "Cause that's what I think. Suck it up."

On the other hand, a true INTJ is always interested in another's point of view. To learn. To make their arguements stronger. If my husband gives me information I didn't know beforehand - I will absolutely latch onto that and form a new opinion. Sometimes it agrees with his, sometimes it doesn't. For instance: the whole Lybia crisis. He was upset that the US wasn't giving fair help across the board. What made Lybia so much more special than Pakistan, for instance? Why help Lybia when there are so many other countries out there that need our help as well. Ok. I see his point. But from my perspective, based on MY experience, I felt that because I was in the Army and served our country I saw no point in saving any other country, regardless of who they are and what their needs are. From a military standpoint, which is what I am familiar with, it's pointless to send OUR troops over to fight other countries' battles when our need is so dire here in this country. We lose the security force, families are separated for lengthy amounts of time, and it ends up costing the soldier so much more money because technically - they have to support two households in two different locations. It's not like the payraise the military gets is so great...

So, you can see how this can turn into a fight. The INFJ in my husband wants to be passionate about his belief and allowed to rant and rave and show his emotion, and the INTJ in me is saying - you're heart is too much into this. It's business. Not personal. So stop taking it so personally.

I have had to learn to walk on eggshells in conversations with him so he doesn't get hurt. But this is where an INTJ that HAS NOT learned the important lessons in life could give two shits about how to cultivate their relationships. If he valued the relationship as much as you do (and I know how hard it is for an INFJ to get to a point where they need advice like this) he would at least allow you to hold your ground and respect you for doing it. Also, an INTJ is not aware of how our 'tone' comes across. Many, many, many times I have been told that I was especially harsh with someone because of my tone. I did not recognize it, and had to learn to adjust my tone so I wouldn't hurt people's feelings all the time. Those few who are closest to me know that I mean nothing by it, but sometimes I hurt them with it anyway and especially strangers. Sometimes it's just me saying, "That's stupid." It's the abruptness of it. Most people can't handle it. Your dad hasn't learned how to work with others and probably assumes that he can do just fine without any help from anyone. Until he learns this lesson himself, he won't change.

My dad was also an INTJ, as another example, who had a son and daughter in another marriage before I was born. He was a terrible father to them. i.e. making promises to visit on such and such a day and never showing up, or not paying support for either of them, or not cultivating the relationship. In the end, his daughter, My half-sister, passed away in a plane crash in '97. That hit him hard. And the only thing that his son, my half-brother, wanted from him - was an apology. That was it! Just apologize, and we can start our relationship. My dad was SO STUBBORN that he felt that HE was the parent and did not owe any of his children an apology for any of his actions. Thus, he died in 2009 without ever having a relationship with his son. In this regard, he was a fool. My brother is truly a wonderful person.

If your dad is willing to go to his grave to back up his 'beliefs' in how right he is - you're going to have to let him make that choice. It's his choice in the end. He will live and die by that choice. So, I agree that you should set yourself free of this. Give yourself permission to let him go. Never give up hope, but let him go.

Hope this helps.
 
I'm always amused at the INFJ tendency to attribute emotional insults as non-insulting and for people to expect to take those seriously.

INFJ: 'You'll die alone.'
INTJ: 'I'd rather die alone than be unfortunate enough to be you.'

Some people just don't get it.
 
I'm always amused at the INFJ tendency to attribute emotional insults as non-insulting and for people to expect to take those seriously.

INFJ: 'You'll die alone.'
INTJ: 'I'd rather die alone than be unfortunate enough to be you.'

Some people just don't get it.

off topic I know but portal 2 this wkend XD
 
off topic I know but portal 2 this wkend XD

I was playing it last night.

Aperture Science Emergency Post Apocalypse Test Evaluation Computer said:
The next test is very dangerous. To help you keep calm in the face of almost certain death, smooth jazz will be deployed in 3... 2... 1...
 
I'm new here, so please don't notice me too much. I just want to express my love & gratitude for INTJs who always have my back, while cradling my heart. I am closer to my INTJs than anyone else in the world. They are sensitive to me, or learn to be so, and they DE-sensitize me, which I desperately need to accrue accurate perspective. I am only in balance around my INTJs, only my true, unadulterated self. I find no judgement there. The bonds are unspeakable, yin & yang, we have our own language, reside in our own bubble. I tattooed "INTJ" behind my right ear to remind me to "smile & breathe" while we are apart. The world is cruel for an INFJ... willing, sensitive, tolerant, compassionate INTJs will shield you & buffer your experience. They will also work as hard as an INFJ to keep the friendship connection strong, and let you know they are thinking of you. They desire to connect, to understand, to share. They like physical contact. They have the most gentle hearts & beautiful minds... okay I'm just going to have to stop the feeler love fest, sorry. I could write a book on this type. All positive. The world would be a complete void without them. It makes me sad to think of it.
 
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Whether he's an INTJ or ISTJ, his personality type per se doesn't explain his behavior. He just sounds emotionally stunted, which is quite a handicap. I have known extremely charming, sweet, and socially effective INTJ's and ISTJ's. It's important not to try to explain everything by personality type because there is great diversity within even one personality type.
 
I'm new here, so please don't notice me too much. I just want to express my love & gratitude for INTJs who always have my back, while cradling my heart. I am closer to my INTJs than anyone else in the world. They are sensitive to me, or learn to be so, and they DE-sensitize me, which I desperately need to accrue accurate perspective. I am only in balance around my INTJs, only my true, unadulterated self. I find no judgement there. The bonds are unspeakable, yin & yang, we have our own language, reside in our own bubble. I tattooed "INTJ" behind my right ear to remind me to "smile & breathe" while we are apart. The world is cruel for an INFJ... willing, sensitive, tolerant, compassionate INTJs will shield you & buffer your experience. They will also work as hard as an INFJ to keep the friendship connection strong, and let you know they are thinking of you. They desire to connect, to understand, to share. They like physical contact. They have the most gentle hearts & beautiful minds... okay I'm just going to have to stop the feeler love fest, sorry. I could write a book on this type. All positive. The world would be a complete void without them. It makes me sad to think of it.

:m024:

I noticed you [MENTION=4015]purplecrayons[/MENTION]!! :)
 
[MENTION=3589]donkeybals[/MENTION] I love your name... :D
 
Whether he's an INTJ or ISTJ, his personality type per se doesn't explain his behavior. He just sounds emotionally stunted, which is quite a handicap. I have known extremely charming, sweet, and socially effective INTJ's and ISTJ's. It's important not to try to explain everything by personality type because there is great diversity within even one personality type.

My mother, aunts, and one sister are INTJ's whom I love very much. I often wish I had the knack for details and science that they seem to have so naturally. I don't need to be convinced INTJ's can be fabulous people. Any type can become elitist assholes, I'm just being specific about his situation. I know there is great diversity and tons of influence from environment for each person, otherwise I would abhor the rest of my family as much as him :) And if there wasn't great diversity, he would have been easy to type.
 
My mother, aunts, and one sister are INTJ's whom I love very much. I often wish I had the knack for details and science that they seem to have so naturally. I don't need to be convinced INTJ's can be fabulous people. Any type can become elitist assholes, I'm just being specific about his situation. I know there is great diversity and tons of influence from environment for each person, otherwise I would abhor the rest of my family as much as him :) And if there wasn't great diversity, he would have been easy to type.

Sorry I just had to reply to this thread because it's so woefully ignorant. That's the whole problem in you and this whole thread. You are trying to TYPE him and expect the MBTI to explain for his actions. Stop. The MBTI is nothing less than a suggesting guide, and is far from absolute and only assumes general stereotypes about each type. There are many exceptions to each type, and as every person notices, there are some things "off" about the category they fit in, displaying that there are quite a bit of exceptions that will not explain your actions. Instead, I think you should, as suggested, look more into abusive personalities and even narcissism.

Also, considering the "INTJ" type is only found in generally 1-3% of the population being the 2nd rarest type, I find it strange you know so many. I think you mistyped them, as it's incredibly hard to judge and type someone unless you're them themselves, especially the INTJ as I have known from experience. The INTJ are OFTEN camouflaged, adaptable to social situations, and extremely convincing actors which is why I usually end up typing them completely wrong, and I can only confidently type them as INTJ after knowing them for many many years and if they ever opened up to me. Also INTJ especially are quite different and individualist even within their type depending on person to person.

Your father is not a INTJ, especially from your explanations. First off, a accomplished INTJ will not treat someone as subhuman even if they believe so, because there are social consequences for their actions. What I have noticed from them are that most of them tend to act in a way that is perfectly acceptable and even praisable in public eye(and also to family members and friends to uphold this superficial image), which is why the myth exists that accomplished intelligent INTJ= slightly sociopathic in a certain way. Also they would probably never really say that in front of people with no fear, as they have reservations(introvert part working) and tend to think in a very effective "cause->effect". They tend to write people off in their own minds easily if they don't consider you worthy, so if your father was a INTJ he wouldn't even bother with you much less acknowledge you(much less verbally abuse you as you wouldn't be worth his time anyways), and would probably just be "nice" and carry on a bland but convenient, superficial relationship with you instead of showing favoritism and treating you in a way of bias that causes conflicts. Your father, from those decisions alone, has created inevitable public conflicts with you, and INTJ dislike conflict and calculate in their mind the best way to counter it. The whole point of INTJ is their logic wins over their emotions, which seems the complete opposite for your father. INTJ are detached from emotion but only because its in their nature to make skillfull decisions in situations without much emotions restraining them, saying he doesn't "believe in love" is quite a emotional statement, as if he was really a INTJ who didn't believe in love he would really have no point or motive in reclaiming this fact, especially in public, and also is a baseless, non beneficial statement to make for a INTJ. Even if they don't "believe in love", they would most likely never say it because it wouldn't do anything but cause negative effects. Based on this, I think if anything, your father is anything BUT a INTJ.

A true INTJ who is in the "worst side" of things are manipulative, but not obvious and you probably wouldn't be asking this question if he was. This is from someone who has been engaged with a INTJ but didn't really recognize him as INTJ and mistyped him with different types until much later when he opened up to me more. A INTJ usually acts in a sort of way that works for him, which is why they are adaptable and can change in different situations and are much like chameleons, especially chameleons of personality which make them hard to type because they take on many personas which are not close to their own. If you are ever with a INTJ, you soon notice they act quite differently with different people, but never in a way that sheds a negative light on them. I have read that some consider INTJ to be a blank slate with a root personality that can change as they go based on situations, which is why they're so hard to read/type and understand.

Anyways, I think its more of his personal problems instead of his type which explains for his actions. And each type regardless will have dysfunctional people with glaring (personal) problems , so you cannot expect anything to come from typing him through MBTI. Instead it's much more beneficial to look at his flaws and his negative tendencies, and to view him from the perspective that MBTI didn't exist and he wasn't typed. Probably doing this, you will be able to see him clearer, as your problem is that you're trying to make humans make sense, especially make humans make sense into a psychological system. Btw, that(referring to the way you approached it, how you are trying to make humans make sense into a system) is also ironically a very INTJ perspective/characteristic. A INTJ out of all the types would probably find the most value, use, and worth in a suggesting system like MBTI because it is able to explain actions(and humans) in a way that they can characterize, categorize, and ultimately understand.

Hope I helped, sorry for the long post.
 
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[MENTION=4041]hehsy5sy5[/MENTION]; Ohhh, remind me to stay away from you! Scary accurate.

The INTJ are OFTEN camouflaged, adaptable to social situations, and extremely convincing actors

INTJ dislike conflict and calculate in their mind the best way to counter it

A INTJ usually acts in a sort of way that works for him, which is why they are adaptable and can change in different situations and are much like chameleons, especially chameleons of personality which make them hard to type because they take on many personas which are not close to their own.
 
Sorry I just had to reply to this thread because it's so woefully ignorant. That's the whole problem in you and this whole thread. You are trying to TYPE him and expect the MBTI to explain for his actions. Stop. The MBTI is nothing less than a suggesting guide, and is far from absolute and only assumes general stereotypes about each type. There are many exceptions to each type, and as every person notices, there are some things "off" about the category they fit in, displaying that there are quite a bit of exceptions that will not explain your actions.

Sorry, I just had to reply to this post, because approaching anyone this way is beyond woefully ignorant! To begin, if you ever want someone to listen to you, I highly recommend not starting with your thoughts on their ignorance. <-- People 101. As I feel that I've made pretty clear, after attempting to understand someone I grew up in the same house as through every other way I know, I am attempting to understand if it CAN be attributed to extremes of MBTI. (As I've said) I've been unable to find much information portraying very unhealthy types (unlike with the Enneagram) to even shed light on type or anything else. Not to mention, its interesting to me and its very natural to press until you find the limitations of your interests' abilities. If you have such a problem with me even trying this method to increase my understanding of another person, please look away next time. I made it very clear that I don't expect this to solve my problems, but I've got every right to try to help myself.

I'm not even going to get into you typing members of my extended family that you've never met. They can't be a certain type because of percentage rates that vary by every site you go on? Really? Too ironic. I approached this thread respectfully and not remotely like a know-it-all, so if you need to vent that bad, start a blog.
 
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Sorry, I just had to reply to this post, because approaching anyone this way is beyond woefully ignorant! To begin, if you ever want someone to listen to you, I highly recommend not starting with your thoughts on their ignorance. <-- People 101. As I feel that I've made pretty clear, after attempting to understand someone I grew up in the same house as through every other way I know, I am attempting to understand if it CAN be attributed to extremes of MBTI. (As I've said) I've been unable to find much information portraying very unhealthy types (unlike with the Enneagram) to even shed light on type or anything else. Not to mention, its interesting to me and its very natural to press until you find the limitations of your interests' abilities. If you have such a problem with me even trying this method to increase my understanding of another person, please look away next time. I made it very clear that I don't expect this to solve my problems, but I've got every right to try to help myself.

I'm not even going to get into you typing members of my extended family that you've never met. They can't be a certain type because of percentage rates that vary by every site you go on? Really? Too ironic. I approached this thread respectfully and not remotely like a know-it-all, so if you need to vent that bad, start a blog.

I'm sorry you took such offense...I didn't mean it that way but I can be pretty critical.

I'm just saying that INTJ are hard to recognize let alone type because of their characteristics. Chances are if you think they're INTJ, they're not because they purposely blend in to fit a mold, and if you think they're obviously another type, that's when you might be wrong. That's why I always 2nd guess myself after tabbing someone as a INTJ, it usually only really hits me after a few guesses combined with careful observation. Of course, our judgment in typing people are half-assed at best and most Jungian analysts agree that the best person who can type a person is that person themselves. I have actually read various books on this and the INTJ are unanimously agreed as one of the rarest types and they do usually account anywhere from 1-3% of the population, although those are just estimations from various sources.
 
I'm sorry you took such offense...I didn't mean it that way but I can be pretty critical.

I'm just saying that INTJ are hard to recognize let alone type because of their characteristics. Chances are if you think they're INTJ, they're not because they purposely blend in to fit a mold, and if you think they're obviously another type, that's when you might be wrong. That's why I always 2nd guess myself after tabbing someone as a INTJ, it usually only really hits me after a few guesses combined with careful observation. Of course, our judgment in typing people are half-assed at best and most Jungian analysts agree that the best person who can type a person is that person themselves. I have actually read various books on this and the INTJ are unanimously agreed as one of the rarest types and they do usually account anywhere from 1-3% of the population, although those are just estimations from various sources.

*I* didn't type my family. Speaking of ignorance, maybe gather some facts before you start the lectures. I'm not going into how they were typed, partly because you didn't ask and I'm not going to waste my time. I'm not interested and I'm respectfully asking you not to repost in this thread. Its not that I took what you said and was easily offended, its that what you said was rude and offensive. I'm not interested in your opinion when you aren't willing to gather the facts or read other posts in the thread. Please respect my request.
 
Not taking sides or anything, but constructive criticism is always healthy. The above few posts are actually one of the rare few on this forum that have managed to describe INTJs pretty accurately, regardless of the tone.