The Truth of Sacrifical Love

Auburn

Auburn

Regular Poster
MBTI
INTP
..I don't know the truth of it, but I an curious what you, as INFJs, think. o.o
I realize this may seem so basic/innate for some here that it's beyond questioning, but please humor me for a bit?

I wonder why selfless sacrifice holds such nobility for many people; why suffering for love's sake is idealized by so many cultures. I wonder what psychic interplays are occuring in such people's minds.

Perhaps it is appealing because stomaching pain shows one's care is not for self-benefit? (why is that gratifying to know?)


"Because those who quickly turn tail on their love when it causes suffering prove their love wasn't selfless."
"A true love would not turn tail when things get rough because it's focus is not it's own health, but that of an other."

Why so? Why is it more noble to focus on another's health at the expense of your own..
I am not advocating either side but just very curious.. please feel free to answer honestly.

***​

When you think to yourself as to why you idealize sacrifical love (assuming you do) what impulses tinkle in your brain? What dynamics drive you toward it? ...is it to be right with your own consciousness? and if so, why would your conscience plague you? ...is it fear of not being good-enough? ..not wanting to be seen as sinful? ...as incentive to wanting to be liked/loved? ...something else?

If you don't idealize selfless/sacrificial love - why don't you, and what ideal do you hold in place?
 
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I find your presumptions/questions humorous. I think the amount of people who actually idealize sacrificial love is very small, despite what the film industry would have you believe. (I don't think the majority of them idealize it either, but demonstrating the act tends to equate to big bucks).

So, while I don't believe people actually idealize it, they are certainly very drawn to it on a deep level. Because it is an act that each of us can carry out as individuals to carry on our species in a way which we have total control over. I die/give up my own self worth so person(s) whom I have determined as lovable may carry on being the completely lovable creature(s) they are.

Therefore, people who actually do idealize such an act (and they do exist) do not love themselves, and do not feel as worthy of love as anyone they would sacrifice themselves for. And maybe that's perfectly fine in some circumstances, but overall I think it's unhealthy.
 
Probably because they want others to sacrifice themselves for the idealizers own benefit. Selfish.
 
I believe in selfless love -- to a degree.

First off, great loves don't always make great relationships. The most passionate and heart-pounding types of love can create a very rocky and tumultuous dynamic.

This is not what I idealize. I don't want to be a Juliet. I don't want to sacrifice for the sake of it.

I want a long term, thoughtful, and meaningful relationship. In that way, I believe in selfless love. A great relationship has to involve a give-and-take, which means that if you want anything from someone, you must also give back. If two people who practice a form of selfless love are in a relationship, then they are both giving, but they are also both receiving. That makes for a good relationship dynamic.

I mean, if you don't demand much but give extra, and your partner does the same, then each of you are quite bountiful :)
 
In the past, I have confused sacrificial love with loyalty...which was very unhealthy, and indicative of the low value I placed on myself. I was raised to believe that who I was wasn't important in comparison to what I did. Pretty messed up.

I've gotten better with the martyrdom concept, but I admit to backsliding. Part of it is just wanting to protect the other person from feeling as badly as I do in a particular situation, figuring if I survived the trauma before, I can do it again to protect them from feeling as I did. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone, but it's difficult to explain.

If ever there was a situation involving my kids, I would sacrifice myself for them without hesitation. I don't idealize it; it is simply the truth. For my husband, I might, depending on the circumstances. I don't think of it as unhealthy or a self-esteem issue in these particular cases, however. I know that I will die someday anyway, and in the grand scheme of things my existence is negligible. If the timing and manner of my death will save someone I love, so be it.
 
This is my favorite subject so thank you for posting this query!!! I think the idea of selfless love is the ideal INFJs strive for, and we will snub anything that falls short of our ideal, BUT trying to love any human who is flawed, & different from the INFJ & his/her ideal is the challenge in itself. Can you find the beauty? Can you purify your intentions? Can you move past your hurt feelings? Can you OPEN your self & let your walls be blown down by the softest whisper? Can you confess your feelings, even when you feel you won't be understood? Can you take care of yourself, & love yourself, because you know to self destruct would cause this person pain?

I think it is the only thing we strive for, and the hardest thing for us to achieve, due to our psychological make up. I am not sure if I am so obsessed with this experiment in selfless love due to following Christ, or if the idea of martyrdom appeals to me because of my Ennegram type 4, but I also wonder... INFJs don't tend to value their own life, so... is it REALLY that big a sacrifice to give your life for someone you love???
 
purplecrayons said:
This is my favorite subject so thank you for posting this query!!! I think the idea of selfless love is the ideal INFJs strive for, and we will snub anything that falls short of our ideal, BUT trying to love any human who is flawed, & different from the INFJ & his/her ideal is the challenge in itself. Can you find the beauty? Can you purify your intentions? Can you move past your hurt feelings? Can you OPEN your self & let your walls be blown down by the softest whisper? Can you confess your feelings, even when you feel you won't be understood? Can you take care of yourself, & love yourself, because you know to self destruct would cause this person pain?

I think it is the only thing we strive for, and the hardest thing for us to achieve, due to our psychological make up. I am not sure if I am so obsessed with this experiment in selfless love due to following Christ, or if the idea of martyrdom appeals to me because of my Ennegram type 4, but I also wonder... INFJs don't tend to value their own life, so... is it REALLY that big a sacrifice to give your life for someone you love???
Click to expand...
Oh, this post is packed heavy!
Firstly I really like this post but must pick afew things apart first (if I may).

Having been an obsessive and diehard follower of Christ before, I assure you such ideals are not INFJ specific. The online descriptions might cause that illusion, but in themselves the cognitive functions are more like hardware, not software. Specific beliefs, opinions, values, ideals - are all formed via one's life circumstances. As posted in a thread here, INFJs in particular can take very many shapes some not at all close to this ideal.

But having said that, I wonder.
@purplecrayons, what is it that draws you toward it? can you dig deep into your psyche and discover it's origin?

I wonder how many people (subconscoulsy/unintentionally) seek out pain and place themselves in masochistic positions, in order to feel a sense of value for being sacrificial. A sense that they are aligning with their consciousness which tells them suffering for others is nobility..
 
I think reliable, loyal love is what is idealised. The kind of love that will endure difficulties and personal cost.

Sacrifice just proves that the love is not superficial and exclusively self-interested.
 
Something my brother once told me that stuck with me:
"People always say they'd die for someone. But that's easy. What has real value is living for someone."
I believe this is true for both the metaphorical and literal.
 
In Matthew chapter thirteen there are a couple of parables, "The Parable of the Hidden Treasure" & "The Parable of the Fine Pearl"

In the first Jesus said that "The Kingdom is like a treasure hidden in a field that a man found, who upon realizing what he found went and happily sold everything to purchase the field"

In the Parable Jesus states "Again the Kingdom of heaven is like a merchant who searches for pearls, who upon finding one of great value goes and sells everything he has to purchase the pearl"


Heaven is like a hidden treasure and merchant.
 
I guess at it's core, the idea of sacrificial love is that someone is not simply using words to express their love for someone; it allows them the full realization of their ultimate feelings for that person. I think it allows people to have the opportunity to give completely. But it's also dangerous. People depending on sacrificial love will sometimes think that if they don't sacrifice their whole person, the object of their sacrifice won't return the love, or understand how much they care. For example, family members often sacrifice a lot, and sometimes unnecessarily. Sacrificial love can create obligation in someone to feel forever grateful for the sacrifice, or feel as if there's nothing they can do to deserve the sacrifice, or may feel as they owe this person more than they do because of that sacrifice - creates a sense of indebtedness to the person who made the sacrifice.
 
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i'm all about this kind of shit
can't really explain why except i'm wired this way and it just makes complete sense to me
you love someone... truly really love someone...... then your concept of 'you' and 'them' fade away and become the same entity
their interests are equal if not of more importance than your own
 
This is why the word bittersweet was coined.

The cycle between joy and pain can be the most exquisite pleasure. Self-sacrificing love sets up that cycle. Eventually, it must burn itself out. However, the hope is that if the other person is also self-sacrificing something greater will develop, a love that endures all odds. Doesn't work in practice.

Eat sweet & sour chicken or chocolate mint bars instead.
 
[MENTION=346]Auburn[/MENTION] Wow, this is really personal. I would have to assume being abused, and neglected in my childhood has formed my feeling that I am too ... different to be loved, and feel that this is somehow my fault, and punishing myself because all the modifications are never enough. This is the error of getting my self worth from others. Anyway... who needs a COKE! :D
 
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