The single life | INFJ Forum

The single life

Lark

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May 9, 2011
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Do you think the single life has anything to recommend it? I am reading a book of essays by Francis Bacon and he considers this question, concluding that the great deeds are achieved by "childless men" and that those who marry and have children are rending "hostages to fortune" because children and wife are impendiments to great enterprise either in virtue or mischief.
 
Is this just for men? because, if I'm being honest, I think this is a topic that hugely impacts women and their choice of careers. Men have the advantage of it being socially acceptable to not have kids and/or marry...however, women are pressured both socially and biologically to settle down and make the choice to rear a family. I know that when Bacon published his writing patriarchy was in full force, thus his writings were largely directed to men - but times have changed, and women are now making significant contributions to society, and are having to decide if those contributions are worth more to them than the legacy of a family.

Side note: Being single does mean you can buy as much shoes, clothes, and makeup as you want with no judgement...and occasionally eat an entire bag of chips while watching Friday Night Lights...
 
[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION], if anything I reckon this question has much greater salience for women than for men.

I am one of those terrible people who see a hard choice and decide that it's only hard choice because the people who have faced it previous have lacked the willpower to solve it properly. Sometimes this works out quite well for me, but more often I get mixed results. I feel really bad because this seems to be my attitude towards achieving a family/career balance, and I will be asking my family to make sacrifices for that. Ugh I'm the worst.
 
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Do you think the single life has anything to recommend it? I am reading a book of essays by Francis Bacon and he considers this question, concluding that the great deeds are achieved by "childless men" and that those who marry and have children are rending "hostages to fortune" because children and wife are impediments to great enterprise either in virtue or mischief.

Being single gives you the opportunity to go do as you please. When your are married or attached with wife and kids or even just a significant other you give up a lot of time. People do not realize just how much time they will give up until they are in a relationship. I have been on both sides of the fence. And I think for Men if they want to have a family they are better to do it when they are in their 30's or even 40's. You have more patience and a better understanding of what being a parent and a human is all about. And you are better equipped to handle the situation. Go see the world while your young and mobile. When your older you will be too tired to go walk around and explore.​
 
[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION], if anything this question has much greater salience for women.

I kind of think that too- but, I had a recent discussion with a man about this, and I think there's starting to be a lot of pressure on men too- especially around declaring their sexuality. As a woman, I don't get that at all - it's more about 'don't you want kids?' or 'who will look after you?' . But I get the impression (this is just secondhand as I'm not a man!) that a lot of men get pressure from the family and friends to find a 'woman', like if they don't then they're not interested in women (and they might not be! Which is totally cool!). This is just my experience from heterosexual men, while they don't care what people think, their parents often want them to marry so that others don't think 'there's something wrong with them'.

it's interesting, I think men who don't marry by a certain age have a stigma that 'they're faulty'; while women who don't marry are often 'career orientated' and selfish for choosing that over family.

But this is all just me surmising from my experience. Women might get the same pressure to marry or have a man to determine their 'sexuality', but I've been lucky never to experience that...nor to I experience the negative perception from my family for not being married and working towards a career...I have felt it from other people, mostly those who don't know me. For me, I always feel it's a stab at my 'motherly instincts' ...
 
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Being single gives you the opportunity to go do as you please. When your are married or attached with wife and kids or even just a significant other you give up a lot of time. People do not realize just how much time they will give up until they are in a relationship. I have been on both sides of the fence. And I think for Men if they want to have a family they are better to do it when they are in their 30's or even 40's. You have more patience and a better understanding of what being a parent and a human is all about. And you are better equipped to handle the situation. Go see the world while your young and mobile. When your older you will be too tired to go walk around and explore.​

It's interesting that men can choose when they want to have kids, whether it's later in life or not. This is where the biological demands on women are different. I just turned 30 and my doctor has already told me I'm running out of time for kids (not in those nice of words!).
 
I kind of think that too- but, I had a recent discussion with a man about this, and I think there's starting to be a lot of pressure on men too- especially around declaring their sexuality. As a woman, I don't get that at all - it's more about 'don't you want kids?' or 'who will look after you?' . But I get the impression (this is just secondhand as I'm not a man!) that a lot of men get pressure from the family and friends to find a 'woman', like if they don't then they're not interested in women (and they might not be! Which is totally cool!). This is just my experience from heterosexual men, while they don't care what people think, they're parents often want them to marry so that others don't think 'there's something wrong with them'.

it's interesting, I think men who don't marry by a certain age have a stigma that 'they're faulty'; while women who don't marry are often 'career orientated' and selfish for choosing that over family.

But this is all just me surmising from my experience. Women might get the same pressure to marry or have a man to determine their 'sexuality', but I've been lucky never to experience that...nor to I experience the negative perception from my family for not being married and working towards a career...I have felt it from other people, mostly those who don't know me. For me, I always feel it's a stab at my 'motherly instincts' ...

You're absolutely right that there is immense pressure on men to be seen as "getting some". However, a man can get away with being a bachelor too, or just super dedicated to work that people respect him for having made that choice (but only if he's making stacks of cash - if you want to work in politics you're going to need a wife and 2.5 kids)
 
Is this just for men? because, if I'm being honest, I think this is a topic that hugely impacts women and their choice of careers. Men have the advantage of it being socially acceptable to not have kids and/or marry...however, women are pressured both socially and biologically to settle down and make the choice to rear a family. I know that when Bacon published his writing patriarchy was in full force, thus his writings were largely directed to men - but times have changed, and women are now making significant contributions to society, and are having to decide if those contributions are worth more to them than the legacy of a family.

Side note: Being single does mean you can buy as much shoes, clothes, and makeup as you want with no judgement...and occasionally eat an entire bag of chips while watching Friday Night Lights...

No but Francis Bacon was the source, you know they way that some old books were written before women existed ;)
 
Being single has an advantage. The freedom of possibility. Being in a good relationship is better than being single. Being stuck in the wrong relationship is infinitely worse than being single.

If you're single you have the advantage of time and freedom. The question is.

Is there something in your life that absolutely drives you forward?

Or do you need someone to inspire you?
 
Being single gives you the opportunity to go do as you please. When your are married or attached with wife and kids or even just a significant other you give up a lot of time. People do not realize just how much time they will give up until they are in a relationship. I have been on both sides of the fence. And I think for Men if they want to have a family they are better to do it when they are in their 30's or even 40's. You have more patience and a better understanding of what being a parent and a human is all about. And you are better equipped to handle the situation. Go see the world while your young and mobile. When your older you will be too tired to go walk around and explore.​

I agree with that too, later in life is a better idea from my own experience of talking to couples and cheaters.
 
It's interesting that men can choose when they want to have kids, whether it's later in life or not. This is where the biological demands on women are different. I just turned 30 and my doctor has already told me I'm running out of time for kids (not in those nice of words!).

Women can have children into their 40's my sister has two daughters and she did not start her family until she was in her late 30's. You can have a family when you are young too. It depends on how you want to spend your time. Men do not always get to choose when they have a family. Things happen. Kids come. All of this has to do with what your life's plan is and how you want to attack the situation. Sex of the species does not matter. Yes you have an optimum window of time to get it done in. But you still have time to plan. So make your plans and get her done...
 
I have found not being single as being exceptionally difficult. It is difficult having to explain why I do things, why I want to be alone sometimes. It is difficult having to "check" and get permission to go where I wish when I wish. Its not just about inviting your partner along, its about not going if they dont want to go more often than not.

Undoubtedly this is why I find myself alone.
 
Women can have children into their 40's my sister has two daughters and she did not start her family until she was in her late 30's. You can have a family when you are young too. It depends on how you want to spend your time. Men do not always get to choose when they have a family. Things happen. Kids come. All of this has to do with what your life's plan is and how you want to attack the situation. Sex of the species does not matter. Yes you have an optimum window of time to get it done in. But you still have time to plan. So make your plans and get her done...

I'm not saying all men get to choose- but I don't think there's the push for men to have children during their 'ripe' years. I'm not saying it's easier or hard for men or women, I'm just saying that I think there are different demands when it comes to when you have your children, and if you choose to have children.
 
You're absolutely right that there is immense pressure on men to be seen as "getting some". However, a man can get away with being a bachelor too, or just super dedicated to work that people respect him for having made that choice (but only if he's making stacks of cash - if you want to work in politics you're going to need a wife and 2.5 kids)

Yes! I think the pressure to be 'successful' is huge on men. There's still the image of being able to provide for the family, which means men are pressured to have high paying jobs. I think there is less of that pressure on women, in the way that it's 'okay' for women to choose a lesser demanding job because she might want to have a family. I don't think a man has that luxury!

And even further, as you said, depending on the area of his career, a family is important for their image!
 
Being single has an advantage. The freedom of possibility. Being in a good relationship is better than being single. Being stuck in the wrong relationship is infinitely worse than being single.

If you're single you have the advantage of time and freedom. The question is.

Is there something in your life that absolutely drives you forward?

Or do you need someone to inspire you?

I think being single comes with pros/cons depending on your age too.

I know I wish I had been single during my early 20s, and was able to be more free about my choices. Being in a relationship for most of my 20's made me feel like I missed out on things.
 
I agree with that too, later in life is a better idea from my own experience of talking to couples and cheaters.

Interesting, a couple of generations ago, it was the norm to have children in your early 20s! How do you think rearing has changed from them? They weren't necessarily experienced individuals! or cheaters ;)
 
No but Francis Bacon was the source, you know they way that some old books were written before women existed ;)

Yes, just curious about the context of the question.

Do you want it to be answered within today's society where we strive for equality between the sexes, thus both men and women have their careers impacted by the choice to have a family. Or are you referring to individuals from previous centuries? If this is the case, then the context of men being burdened by women and children seems more true, as women weren't allowed to have careers back then.

Not trying to pull a woman card or anything, just wanted to highlight that this is a quote from a time when women were disempowered, and to apply it to today's world, one must recognize that these 'limitations' exist for women.
 
Interesting, a couple of generations ago, it was the norm to have children in your early 20s! How do you think rearing has changed from them? They weren't necessarily experienced individuals! or cheaters ;)

I think there's been a major change in attachment styles, over the time in question, and the needs of most individuals in relationships have changed too, this is to do with changes in patterns in working life, in family culture, in popular culture and I'd say that a lot of the public or social "scaffolding" around individuals, basic stuff like unanimity of purpose, social attitudes etc., is gone too.

That means that people are more inclined to cheat or experience "mid-life" or "quarter life" crisis and cheat on partners or believe they have missed chances by getting into committed relationships earlier in life. Its just my take on things.

There's research suggesting that consequential thinking which used to develop in individuals by the age of sixteen or seventeen is now only developing by the age of 21yrs or 23yrs of age. Strictly speaking consequentialism is one of those things which is discussed more as an ideological precept or social construct than objective fact these days, whatever, the point is that comprehending it and practicing it is individually and socially advantageous, most of the time, and its less commonplace.

Attachment isnt the whole of it, its part of it, a significant part though.
 
Yes, just curious about the context of the question.

Do you want it to be answered within today's society where we strive for equality between the sexes, thus both men and women have their careers impacted by the choice to have a family. Or are you referring to individuals from previous centuries? If this is the case, then the context of men being burdened by women and children seems more true, as women weren't allowed to have careers back then.

Not trying to pull a woman card or anything, just wanted to highlight that this is a quote from a time when women were disempowered, and to apply it to today's world, one must recognize that these 'limitations' exist for women.

No, that's all incidential, I was just mentioning Bacon because I was reading him, I was less interested in discussing the gender wars or battle of the sexes, its an interesting tangent for some but I'm not that interested in it these days. I'm not being dismissive, just being honest about it.
 
I think there's been a major change in attachment styles, over the time in question, and the needs of most individuals in relationships have changed too, this is to do with changes in patterns in working life, in family culture, in popular culture and I'd say that a lot of the public or social "scaffolding" around individuals, basic stuff like unanimity of purpose, social attitudes etc., is gone too.

That means that people are more inclined to cheat or experience "mid-life" or "quarter life" crisis and cheat on partners or believe they have missed chances by getting into committed relationships earlier in life. Its just my take on things.

There's research suggesting that consequential thinking which used to develop in individuals by the age of sixteen or seventeen is now only developing by the age of 21yrs or 23yrs of age. Strictly speaking consequentialism is one of those things which is discussed more as an ideological precept or social construct than objective fact these days, whatever, the point is that comprehending it and practicing it is individually and socially advantageous, most of the time, and its less commonplace.

Attachment isnt the whole of it, its part of it, a significant part though.

Yes, but the attachment styles are almost faulty now. Look at the millenials - they have been over parented and many suggest that they are ill-equipped for an independent lifestyle. But this is about parenting, rather than whether or not having a family impacts your ability to be 'successful' or provide innovations through your work.

I do think that economic changes (especially when you consider the cost of higher education, and the debt students have) impact what people want out of a relationship, but it's a major factor in whether or not people can even have relationships. As someone in their 30s with debt from higher education, my only option is to continue on through to graduate and hopefully gain a decent income post-graduation. However, that decent income will require a lot of hard work and sacrifice. I might want a family, but I don't have a choice to have a family if I want to be able to provide for them. This then leads into the higher incidents of crises - we're overworked, underpaid, and stressed out.

I think the choice to have a family now is much more complicated than a few generations ago- especially because of the economics.