The Key Factor in Screening Ni Dominance

InvisibleJim

InvisibleJim

Banned
MBTI
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Many people have asked me how I can very quickly gauge if claimed Ni dominants are 'as they say' before they change type many months later.

It's really quite simple.

To earn a place in the Ni dominant seat (which is much more exclusive than suggested by typology forums) one must be constantly seeking highly individualised external environments to the point of madness to the onlooker...

It is the nature of the Ni dominant to seek an 'individual' frontier. To be Ni dominant is to seek rejection of Se. Se is a function driven to relate in the moment to sensory input from individuals around you. Ni is the opposite, it seeks to expel individuals around you to free up mind space.

To locate the Ni dominant look for the individual who is willing to push their friends away for space often for extended periods of time and also to travel totally against societal grain in doing so.

This is true of all Ni dominants. We are incredibly fickle and particular beasts and you can see that it is 'borderline' present in the Ni 2nds, the ENxJs.

What you tend to find is that Ni dominants are both 'early adopters' and 'early leavers' and can also be frictional in doing so. The mindset of Ni is such that it is actively resentful that others have encroached on it's intellectual and psychological head space.

What I tend to find on Typology forums is 'weak Ni counter-rationalisation' from many members of typology boards to label themselves with a more 'favourable' in their view type because they feel organised and thus J and mystical and thus Ni... really, come on.

I was inspired to write this post after 1.5 years of a typology friend harping on about their INTJness and finally confessing today that they admit they are indeed ISTP. I know why they done it, they done it because they liked the 'mysticism' surrounding INFJ but were too 'T' to cut it and then it took some very heavy socionics investigation for them to realise they were lying to themselves.

In essence Ni is a very strange and fractuous mindset. The only member of this board who I can really say is 'Kosher' Ni dominant (from my limited experience) is @Bird . It took me some time to think about that and bring that realisation back into mind and it clicks.

Until you can clear that from the mind, you might as well look for the simpler factor: Id breakthrough, but this is not 100% in screening due to others being capable of manufacturing the required 'experience' in the correct 'order' to fool the logical classification.
 
"highly individualised external environments"

What like always going to new parks, coffee shops or random fields? lol.

"What you tend to find is that Ni dominants are both 'early adopters' and 'early leavers' "

So all the Ni doms joined facebook by around '05 and left a month later? =P
 
Wyote said:
"highly individualised external environments"

What like always going to new parks, coffee shops or random fields? lol.

"What you tend to find is that Ni dominants are both 'early adopters' and 'early leavers' "

So all the Ni doms joined facebook by around '05 and left a month later? =P
Click to expand...

You didn't understand it exactly and I explained it very poorly.

By individualised external environments its about exclusivity and novelty. Therefore expect to find Ni dominants basing themselves in unusual nooks and crannies; but not in the middle ground. You'll find Ni dominants in a penthouse, or in a little cottage in the middle of nowhere. You won't find them rubbing shoulders with the jones in cul-de-sac lane. This is as true on intellectual terms as upon physical terms. Cognition affects aggregate behaviour and choice.

By early adopters/leavers it is always in comparison to part of a peer group. Ni dominants just don't want to do other things with other people 'that much', especially where someone is around too often. The natural consequence is that they wish to establish new paradigms to create the required 'individualised environments' as discussed earlier. They will gradually allow others into that environment and then spontaneously have enough when it is 'cognitively' crowded.

There is a beta quadra opposition/tension to the INFJ just as there is a gamma quadra opposition/tension to the INTJ, this is the selection and rejection mechanism as a result of Ni dominance.
 
[MENTION=3473]InvisibleJim[/MENTION]

I understood pretty clearly, I was just being a bit cheeky. Though your further explanation on friendship and creating new paradigms with others for self serving purposes is pretty interesting.
 
Thanks for that. (= Rings a lot of bells.
 
dream echo said:
You've given me some intriguing ideas to ponder...
Thank you.
Click to expand...

The basis of this understanding is actually quite simple when you consider the work of Jung and Lenore.

The first function is the first part of the ego, the self.

The second function is the second part of the ego, the parent.

In order to have such a wandering and individualised self in the ego it must be balanced by either way of judging to decide upon direction, environmentally and intellectually. This often contradictory and resentful behaviour you can see is a strong clash between having such an individualised and directive viewpoint married with this judging method and therefore 'ignoring/rejecting' the other judging method.
 
Great reading, thanks. I identified with the early adopter, early leaver bit but I'm not sure it's for the same reason - well maybe it is. Yeah, it's sort of like other people ruin it for me, but more because they get it wrong than me feeling crowded! (I know how arrogant that sounds (and is)!) I tend to think I would like people sharing something with me, because I often feel lonely, but yeah, when you tell them or they start to catch on to something and get interested themselves, it's often that they just kind of get the wrong idea and its frustrating to be polite and listen to them spout bollocks out of their perception that they are being a particularly way (depending on what they think is important - for instance cool/fair/nice/clever etc), which sort of taints the purity of the idea. I am a weird one.

I think you are much more of an expert than me, although I will admit that I am not a fan of ego/id talk being more of a lacanian thinker myself (who still uses those terms I guess but in a different way). I wonder if you would recognise this though. It is very difficult for me to decide whether certain things about me are personal/a factor associated with mental health/or my personality but here goes anyway. I was thinking today that how I feel is that I am outside of society and that I enter it and go around walking on a kind of screen. I prefer it inside society about 50 per cent of the time but also love it that I can leave.

That's a bit abstract so I doubt it makes sense. But I wondered what you thought.
 
This is one of the reasons I doubt I'm Ni-dominant, though many people seem to insist that I am. I get lost in my head-space a lot, and yes, I do sometimes push other people away in order to do this, to examine abstract concepts and re-evaluate my strategies, but it isn't a necessity for me. Too much of it makes me lose sight of my goals. In fact, if Ni is in any of my top tier functions, it's either my secondary or tertiary. I'm comfortable enough with it that I slip into its holds unconsciously, but it isn't a state that empowers me. It consumes me.
 
This is very interesting to me. I've suspected that most on this forum are ISFJ or INFP for a long time now, though I think it may cause a bit of a shit storm if I explained exactly why while citing examples. I'll just say this, it has to do with people thinking Fe is about going with the majority, and avoiding conflict. It's not actually.
 
Last said:
This is very interesting to me. I've suspected that most on this forum are ISFJ or INFP for a long time now, though I think it may cause a bit of a shit storm if I explained exactly why while citing examples. I'll just say this, it has to do with people thinking Fe is about going with the majority, and avoiding conflict. It's not actually.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this. I don't think Fe in anyway means majority decision.

I must admit, though, when I read this, I couldn't really see a reason for Ni-doms to want to be unique or different in some way. Maybe someone could explain it to me. I could see it as being not fussed one way or the other, though. And I think Fe does go into conflict if it is deemed necessary but wouldn't go into conflict out of what would be deemed "pettiness". Fe, I think, is likely to stand up for whatever the holder thinks is right. In an ISFJ, this might mean protecting their group by standing up to outsiders. In an INFJ, this might mean standing up or even just taking charge if possible if they see inequality brewing - standing up for the little guy because the fairness of society is all of our responsibility. Neither type necessarily has to agree with the majority, I'm just not sure that there's any reason for them to want to be different? It doesn't seem like there'd be a drive there, although I'm perceiving this from my interpretation of the cognitive functions.
 
Could the will to be not influeced by others ,the will to go against what they said (or a least trying to be indipendent from that) be part of that ''invasion '' of the mental space of which you talk about in this post ?Is that a likely consequence of being Ni dominant and the consequent refuse of Se?
I mean in general the will to have own personal thoughts about things , i hope it is clear what i mean (that is a thing i experiece often )
 
imo, the authenticity-mark of Ni is:

continuous perspective-shifting.

very often this is associated with: to relativize everything.

this is very close to: to deconstruct everything.
in order to free unconscious perception.

all this is done like a reflex, almost without thinking.

this enables Ni-dominants to intuite rapidly every kind of presupposition inherent to a intellectual or emotional framework.
 
Andy Quellenlicht said:
imo, the authenticity-mark of Ni is:

continuous perspective-shifting.

very often this is associated with: to relativize everything.

this is very close to: to deconstruct everything.
in order to free unconscious perception.

all this is done like a reflex, almost without thinking.

this enables Ni-dominants to intuite rapidly every kind of presupposition inherent to a intellectual or emotional framework.
Click to expand...

wrong, wrong, wrong...





Our thread-starter is right, right right.
 
Andy is basically illustrating everything our thread-starter is indicting; non-Ni dominants who congregate here are certain of themselves but ignorant of themselves all-the-more.

We seem to forget how rare the INFJ type is. Even on the internet.

For a year I accepted I was an ENTP. For another year I believed I was an ENTJ. And it was only while studying the Enneagram I knew I was an INFJ.

There's a lot to it and one thing I've found in my trek is that the hardest thing about being Ni dominant is that hardly anyone else is; nobody gets you the way you get you. You are in a world that isn't Ni dominant and therefore has no understanding, nor respect for, the mind you express. It is that fact (in my opinion) that buttresses the need for the Ni to have its mind-space. It is self-observation and conscious work on oneself that yields fulfillment and growth, not understanding from the group.
 
My main disagreements with Andy are that Ni is perspective shifting. Perhaps this is true for unhealthy types, but not so for self-realized, essential individuals.

And to "relatavize everything"? Could anything be further form the Ni type, the most individual of the 16? Sure, we enjoy our metaphors, but only insofar as they help the non-intuitives grasp a little bit of reality.

To deconstruct everything? I find that to be an NTJ affect but hardly true for the majority or Ni's. Oh no, we needn't deconstruct; the real beauty of Ni is the understanding of the whole in a way that chemists, scientists, statisticians and cultists can only dream of.
 
frugal gourmet,

you seem to be INFP or another holistic type (right brain)! ("nobody gets you the way you get you"; "the real beauty of Ni is the understanding of the whole in a way that chemists, scientists, statisticians and cultists can only dream of"). Nothing holistic about Ni-dominant people, they think in a linear way. so the self is quite a construct of different streams. it's not clear at all, what it is...

of course it depends on the books you read, because the authors don't agree about the definition of INFJ. i studied lenore thomson, and if i'm sure, i'm INFJ (and what you write sounds not infj according to this book) then it's based on this book. in my understanding, this book goes far beyond myers-briggs etc.
 
and, the individual compoment of Ni-dominant is quite the contrary to Fi-dominant INFPs. driven by unconscious sensation, Nis follow their hunches, premonitions (in some cases) or metaphors which can put them on a quest for an object that cannot be found, by definition, since it's always out of reach, because not conscious. but, the unconscious, in a lacanian perspective, is embedded in the desire of the Other - in everything the significant Others "said", even before i was born. so the unconscious has a social dimension. so, it might be misleading to say that Ni are individualists, even if they behave like ones. they are more following the hidden, unspoken and unseen (which can be individual or social in the above sense).

In comparison, INFPs, Fi-dominants, are truly individualist, since it's basically about the integrity of their own inner world - at almost all costs.
 
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