Suck at friendships | INFJ Forum

Suck at friendships

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by soulseeker, Jan 22, 2012.

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  1. soulseeker

    soulseeker Permanent Fixture

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    So I suck at friendship or any relationship for that matter :(

    I ALWAYS end up losing my closest friends and now that I'm in my senior year in high school, I am about to lose some friends and I see it coming. I want to save the friendships. The problem is, I think I'm the problem here.



    Well as usual, what happened is that I suspected something was going on. This friend (INTJ) of mine is a VERY VERY MOODY friend and she speaks out whatever it is that's in her mind. If she doesn't like you, she'll tell you and she disrespects people a LOT. She thinks she's sensitive. SHE IS in another way but she's insensitive in a way that if she doesn't like you, she WON'T make an effort to be at least formal to you. Well I think that this is a bit immature of her. Well I was reeaaallyyyy reaaaalllyy close to her before and what others didn't see in her, I know I saw it. She's kind of lost and wants to be loved. So alike me and we are aware that we are very much alike but also different in many ways.

    I talked to her before about her being "disrespectful" to others and she said that she understands that I'm against those things and that she won't change because she is who she is. Well I accepted that and told her that I know I can't change anyone and that I like to help her to try to avoid people judging her. I told her I want to change her but I don't have the right to do it because of course, she's who she is and I'm her friend so I have to accept that.

    And so... one day, I just burst out. I felt like she also keeps on disrespecting me like when I talk to her, she rolls her eyes she speaks with a "shut up I don't want to talk to you tone". Then my other close friend (INFP) was with her that day and I REALLY FEEL LIKE THEY WERE GANGING UP ON ME. I REALLY FELT LIKE they were talking behind me and all that.

    SO... I JUST COULDN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE..i burst and I cursed them both and said bad things... that I REGRET OF COURSE. After a week I guess, I talked to this INFP friend of mine and found out that she NEVER TAKLED behind my back and that she never wanted me to feel out of place because that's exactly how I feel most of the time when she's with me. She cried and all and I believed her not because she cried but because she's my friend.

    I never talked to my INTJ friend because she is just too full of herself. I think she wants me to grovel and beg her to be my friend again.. UGHHHH. She likes people to be afraid of her. So since I wanted things to be right again, I left her a message an dtold her that I wanted to fix this and she replied and told me that she didn't want to give a schedule as to when we should talk because it would seem awkward. She told me that we'll both know when to talk to each other. I actually mesaged her this because once when she recited in school when I was absent and the teacher asked her what she wants for new year, she said forgiveness from a very close friend. And another teacher asked her what she wants for Christmas she said that same thing too. I OF COURSE DID NOT ASSUME THAT THIS FRIEND WAS ME but my friend told me that she thinks that she was referring to me because I was her only close friend whom she fought with.

    I GOT SO IRRITATED.... UGHHHH

    OKAY... SO... THE THING IS... MY PROBLEM IS THAT I guess I'm too paranoid. I put words into people's mouths. I give meaning to every action people do and it's driving me crazy. I'm used to observing people and drawing conclusiosn but now.. I KNOW that it's all just an illusion. They never meant to make me out of place. It's just me.

    SO THE PROBLEM IS ME.... :( :( :( am I the only one who does this!?!??! :(( :(

    so right now.."I'm in the you messed with me, I wanted to make things right but I don't see an effort on your part so get the hell out of my life and my first step is to delete you in facebook phase" I really wanted to make this right but last friday night we had a class night, and I FELT ANGRY because all my close friends are with her.. and I feel bad because not even my other INFP close friend was there to comfort me. NO ONE WAS THERE FOR ME :( am I really not a part of this human race? I feel so alienated. the problem with this INFP friend is that she says she doesn't mean to be insensitive but SHE IS. When I talk to her, I REALLY FEEL LIKE SHE WANTS ME TO STAY AWAY.


    OKAY I DON'T KNOW WHEN AND WHEN NOT TO TRUST MYSELF BECAUSE THE LAST TIME I FEEEEEEEELLLLLLTTTT LIKE PEOPLE DOING THIS THINKING THIS AND THAT, I WAS WRONG..... :(( :( :(

    OKAY I SUCK
     
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    Wow, You must really suck at it, i didnt quite read all of that, but i thought instead of wasting your time on focusing on nonsense words and shit people say and I would divert my attention to understanding yourself better ;) Worked in da past, 4 me.
     
  3. OP
    soulseeker

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    wow I didn't expect someone to say that too :)) but yeah I guess I have to understand myself too... I KNOW I DO and I just can't I try my best to. I guess I'm too emotional and sensitive.
     
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    Yar, its nothing to worry about it, many people who suck at friendships at an early age can develope great relationship, from start to finish, fun ride when you look back at it :]
     
  5. OP
    soulseeker

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    I know there's no one solution for a problem but... would you mind if you tell me how exactly you tried to understand yourself? :)
     
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  6. the

    the Si master race.
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    Your "friend" seems like a loser and you should find another friend who you like better. Trying to save your friend from their own problems that they dont want to solve, and even deny exist is pointless.
     
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  7. OP
    soulseeker

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    I don't know what to do anymore :( it seems like every time I get close friends I assume that they don't like me or that some time they'll realize that they don't really like me.

    I get along well with a lot of people and I make friends easily. I can easily talk to new people but then when it comes to group shit whatever, I'm the one who knows everyone but THE ONLY ONE without a group of friends. :((

    I don't want to be clingy and I don't think I am it's just that I need connection from time to time with other people. It's hard living alone :(
     
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  8. Ripley

    Ripley Newbie

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    Alright, the thing about INTJ's is that they are very logical, or at least they try to be. If they don't like someone they will let them know that much is true and they really can come off as jerks, believe me I have dated one for the past 3 years. They will be dissrespectful to someone if they don't believe that they don't deserve thier time.

    However, as someone who has an INTJ with her a good deal I can tell you this, as mmuch as it is against your nature try to talk to her again and do not ask them to talk about thier feeling at all. Instead say "I feel" at the begining of your sentances, try not to be too emotionally charged just tell her how you feel. Also, since this is High School, INTJs are likely to mellow out once they leave High School so it's just part for the course that they act like jerks.

    I think you should forgive her but instead of asking her to change completely, just tell her how it makes you feel, not as much as if it's against your morals because by god as INFJ's do we have a lot of them, but just how bad you feel when she does it. Instead of changing her compltely, just tell her to lay off a little, that way she doesn't have to completely change and you don't have to constantly deal with things you don't like.

    Also, if she ever "Jokes" with you and you feel it's too harsh, tell her, I'm not quite sure if she does this to you but I noticed INTJ's tend to do it. To them, logically speaking they believe you are going to perfectly understand that it is a joke and why wouldn't you? But if you don't tell them, not by getting on thier case all the time, but by gently telling them. "Hey I feel thats going a bit far could you lay off." may help.

    Also if she doesn't understand why you feel that way, you just have to respond. "It's just in my nature." or something of that matter, essetially you could say. "I can't change and know you can't change ethier but we can try to work at understanding each other better."

    Biggest cause of INFJ and INTJ dissagreements is usually lack of communication. Go up to her and talk to her.

    Now this plan isn't full proof but honestly, it's the way that I have come to talk to my INTJ boyfriend and we have managed not to kill each other yet. So do with this as you will.
     
    #8 Ripley, Jan 22, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  9. acd

    acd Well-known member

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    You don't suck at friendship. Honestly it sounds like your intj friend does. I dated an intj once and that was the same way he treated me and other people...

    They seem to think their rudeness and utter contempt for others is justified because its 'honest'. However, go ahead and be 'honest' yourself with them and you see where it gets you. I suppose its a lack of social skills. I dont believe thats the case with all intjs just saying in my limited experience with one I can relate.)I can understand your outburst.

    You already reached out to her and apologized. The ball is in her court. If she is truly a friend she will talk to you about it And resolve it instead of putting you off.

    In regards to loneliness and having tons of friends, I suggest becoming a companion to yourself. Get to know yourself and accept yourself. It will build your confidence. If you become a companion to yourself others will naturally be drawn to you.
     
    #9 acd, Jan 22, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
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  10. technics

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    1. You don't suck at friendships or relationships.
    2. Ignore the INTJ friend.
    3. Stay friends with the INFP.
     
  11. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

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    Well, as far as understanding yourself is concerned, I think that this means you should focus upon building your own self-esteem. In short, give yourself more credit and give more attention to developing and pursuing your own interests and goals. Imo, making friends shouldn't be too high amongst your priorities. Taking more interest in yourself, you will eventually gravitate towards people who share those interests, and you'll ultimately have more common ground. In essence, I think that friendships will be a natural byproduct of knowing and becoming comfortable with yourself. Who is going to be more fun to hang around? Somebody who is comfortable with who they are, or somebody who is constantly probing for reasons that you might not like them?

    Give your acquaintances the credit of knowing who they want to spend time with. Do you seek out people who make bad impressions upon you when looking for friends? Odds are, neither to they. It is true that as some people get to know each other better, they may find themselves incompatible regardless of initial impressions. It's possible, but it's not by any means the end of the world. I've met people who I've been interested in getting to know initially, and then found out as time progressed that I don't really vibe with them, and that's perfectly ok.

    Obsessing over every little detail of social interactions will only strengthen your own insecurities and summarily make you look more boring to potential friends. I don't know if typology plays a significant part in your relationships with the people you mentioned who you seem to know well, but I'd throw it out the window when it comes to making new friendships.

    You seem to be pretty self-aware as far as I can see. Fwiw, I just thought I'd mention that because I share some of the tendencies you wrote about, so maybe there's some food for thought. I think it just boils down to learning to be comfortable in your own skin. =/

    edit: Oh, and about the sundered relationships with your current friends, it may be okay to come to terms as far as animosity, but if you really find that you don't get along with either of them, I wouldn't go out of my way to re-establish the friendships.
     
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  12. OP
    soulseeker

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    Thanks :) well we've been reallyy close friends for around 2 years.

    OMG THE HONESTY PART IS SOOOOO TRUE. I'm actually waiting for her to talk to me about it. I forgot to mention though that she "tries" to "talk to me" like in a group setting when you just talk and everyone assumes that you're talking to them then I make a comment then she addresses her reply to me. However, I'm looking forward to a formal talk and not some let's talk if we feel like it thing.

    I think both of our INTJ friends have a lot in common :)) :))

    Thanks :)

    Actually, I was closer with the INTJ one but she irritates me when she's being disrespectful and insensitive... well I guess she doesn't know she's insensitive. The INFP one doesn't want anyone to feel bad but somehow, she just does. She gives this feeling of alienation to others. She has this "I'm not talking to you and I don't want you" energy. I told that to her once and she didn't know she was making people feel that :(



    Thanks :)

    I agree with the being comfortable in my own skin. I do know that I really have to love and accept myself first before I can "love" and accept others for who they are because if not, I'll end up ruining my relationships with my own insecurities.

    but I do have a hard time doing that. I really feel fine when I'm with myself at home but when I go out I feel so different. I love being different it's just that sometimes when I see people having other people with them like their family and friends, I just wish that I'd have that too. I don't need or want to belong to the society as a whole or to every group I meet but I wish I had a group of people who I can really call my close friends.
     
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  13. OP
    soulseeker

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    They can be VERY DISRESPECTFUL :))

    This was the first time I knew something was wrong. They ONLY become disrespectful if they don't like you and we were going along really well and I know that. Just for the past months, she started "disrespecting" me and she was never like that with me before so I knew something was going on.

    I asked her what was going on and she said that she didn't want to remember what I did that irritated her and I was like come on and tell me so I won't repeat it again and she JUST DOES NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

    One of my friends asked her about me and she told my other friend that she knew I was mad at her for telling her to not be so jealous (she's also really jealous) with other people who can sing well because I told her that she's special the way she is and that she has a lot of talents other people don't have. She thought I was mad at her for not accepting what I told her.

    She DOES NOT know the real reason why. I don't get why she DOESN'T KNOW THAT she disrespected me in a lot of ways.

    What irritates me the most is that I feel like both of them are ganging up on me <---- I'm not even sure BUT I CAN FEEL IT. Well.. sometimes feelings can be wrong :( But what do I do if I feel that way? :(( :(

    So I resort to just erasing them from my life and acting like I don't know them at all. BUT THEN....I can't completely do this... one second I feel like forgiving them and approaching them then the next I feel like punching them on the face... THAT'S BAD I KNOW :(( :( :(
     
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  14. this is only temporary

    this is only temporary Community Member

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    No! No, not at all. If you feel like punching someone on the face, there is usually a darn good reason, even if you cannot immediately verbalize it. I mean, you don't just randomly go around feeling like punching people for no reason, do you? Probably not. There is a reason for it. You may just not be able to see or verbalize those reasons yet.

    I have found in life, that if I feel like punching someone on the face, it is definitely best to avoid them (for a number of reasons, not the least of which is you might wind up actually doing that and regretting it later or getting in trouble) and your feelings are telling you something important, even if it takes you a while to figure it out.

    If someone is a good friend, they will not repeatedly and consistently cause you to feel this way. Being alone is much better than having false friends.
     
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  15. OP
    soulseeker

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    Thanks :) But then what if I know that they're good friends and I confronted one of them and told them what I felt sometimes when they do certain things and then she told me she had no intention of doing those things. I don't know how to differentiate which one is correct, my feelings that I don't feel that good sometimes when I'm around her (only when she does certain things like talking to just one person when I'm there sitting with them or saying goodbye only to the person I'm with and "ignoring" me
     
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  16. OP
    soulseeker

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    Thanks :) But then what if I know that they're good friends and I confronted one of them and told them what I felt sometimes when they do certain things and then she told me she had no intention of doing those things. I don't know how to differentiate which one is correct, my feelings that I don't feel that good sometimes when I'm around her (only when she does certain things like talking to just one person when I'm there sitting with them or saying goodbye only to the person I'm with and "ignoring" me <-- she said she didn't mean to do that and make me feel bad) or other people's reasons which I believe because she's a good friend of mine.

    What if people don't really mean what they did but you feel ignored and uncared for by them when all along they wanted to be a friend?
     
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  17. Sriracha

    Sriracha Not here.
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    Let it roll off your back. It sucks for now. You're at an age where you are more mature than your friends, but not mature enough or too young for older friends. Give it a couple years and choose to surround yourself with people who can give mutual respect for what makes you different. I have only one close friend from high school (after 15+ years of barely speaking) and many close friends I have made within the last 5 years (note my age.)

    I've found that those who constantly say "I'M NOT INTO DRAMA" are some of the worst drama queens out there. Everyone creates "drama" in some way. You are going to go through a lot of failed friendships, but you cannot gain experience in what kind of friendship works for you unless you take the risk on developing them with others in the meantime. Trust me, this drama crap will exist your entire life, but in different contexts. "DRAMA" itself is not always a negative thing. The pot will be stirred occastionally in order to throw people out of their comfort zones ... it is there when there is potential for growth (or you can do the negative ... bitch about it.)

    If you are into altruism, I would advise you to look into some kind of program where you can volunteer some of your time each week. You'd be surprised what it can do for your overall experience with people. Put yourself in a position where you can "observe" people and their interactions.
     
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  18. this is only temporary

    this is only temporary Community Member

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    Oh... yeah... wait, so you are feeling upset but they are saying they didn't mean to upset you?

    I am not sure what to make of that, to be honest. (Also, I do not have complete info on the situation.)

    Should she have known it would be upsetting to most people?

    Given what you told me, I'd say one of two things:

    1. It could be that old trick, where someone is rude/disrespectful/intentionally hurtful, but then when you object, they try to blame you for objecting.
    (blaming the victim. misdirecting.)

    That is an old old trick used by perpetrators of offenses large and small. You can usually tell someone is trying to do this if you ask yourself
    "Would most people know this is hurtful?"
    "Is it maybe a cultural or personality thing?"
    "Is it passive aggressive feigning innocence when 99% of the world's population would know very well that was hurtful?"

    If the answer goes yes/no/yes then I think you have a victim-blamer on your hands. Fail. Okay, maybe first inform her that she is blaming you for getting upset when anyone in their right minds would have been upset in your situation.

    or

    2. You may be doing the thing where you hold people to too high standards of friendship/relationship. Maybe she really is a friend, but not in the INFJ sense of the word. Maybe she just naturally has the emotional depth of a teaspoon, and you can't blame her for something she can't help. Maybe it would help if you redefined the relationship to "Acquaintance," which sounds cold and hard, but it is useful to frame relationships in that way to avoid over-idealizing people. (Do you think this is possibly happening? Are you expecting too much from her?)

    Or it could really have been an accident. I am not sure how onc can tell the difference, to be honest.

    It can be unfair to people if you hold them to standards they can't live up to. Sounds like it is possible this girl doesn't want to be FRIEND-friends, just acquaintance-friends. You have to learn to dial sensitivity very far down with people like this.

    Either way, I think it is a good idea to avoid people who repeatedly and consistently make you want to punch them.

    And P.S. I second what Sriricha said.

    and I just thought of another question you should ask yourself when deciding what to do with this girl.
    Ask yourself: "Would she behave this way with everyone? Her family/coworkers/teachers? or is it just me who she treats this way?" If you find her behavior to you is significantly different from her behavior to others, especially others who she considers more powerful than herself, then I think you can further trust your feelings and not get confused about her claiming to be accidentally rude.
     
    #18 this is only temporary, Jan 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  19. Ripley

    Ripley Newbie

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    Oh no it's perfectly normal to want to Punch an INTJ, I frog (punch in the shoulder) my INTJ boyfriend sometimes because he can be a big jerk without meaning to.

    The whole thing is that I think you need to talk to her on your own, Isolate her if need be, it's gonna put her on edge but it may be the best way to do it. You should tell her how you really feel because she is NOT going to know the reason why, I can not tell you enough that they WONT know why you are angry unless you tell them. If you tell them your feelings or at least your reasoning, then they will understand. Do not expect them to know because they won't it's not a matter of them being a bad friend it's just a matter of the fact that you are not communicating with them now in a way they understand. Also do not use the word. "You make me so angry" or anything like that, don't use the word you, tell them how you feel and what the actions did, that is honestly the best way to do things.

    Good example, the other day I told my INTJ friend that I couldn't DM (dungeon Master, yes I play DND) a campaign I wanted to play because of the fact I was busy with school. So she says. "So since Ripley doesn't want to play in this campaign we will have to do something else." I was upset by this, feeling like I had done something wrong or crashed the party in some way. So I waited for some time afterwords, a few hours or so when I knew I could talk to her one on one and told her how it made me feel. She was surprised that I felt that way and once I explained why fully, not accusing her of anything but just voicing my own feelings and reasoning, she understood and we made up.

    Communicate with them, if you don't want them out of your life, you better darn well talk to them, don't just absorb in on yourself like we INFJs tend to do, try to be assertive and say. "We need to talk about this because I don't want to loose you as my friend! I value your friendship!"

    The only way you will get better at friendships, is communicating how you feel. If she doesn't like it, then you you can say "Okay I tried" and move on, but don't be passive in this, if anything be politely aggressive. If they are your friends, then they will understand why you are doing it.
     
    #19 Ripley, Jan 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
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  20. OP
    soulseeker

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    INFJ
    Thank you :) I will look forward to volunteering in charity things and church things :) I think it would help me to understand people too and just be an observer; not getting too emotionally involved hopefully this will help me be more in tuned with myself :)


    I guess I do have high standards for friendships :)) well this INTJ person was my close friend and we both know that. My other friends didn't even expect us to fight because we were that close. But the thing is, I really did become upset because I didn't expect her to treat me like what she would treat other people. She didn't disrespect me that much before or not at all then suddenly , I FEEL (only FEEL) that she started being a bit disrespectful which led me to think that, we don't have this connection anymore so I just better back out of our friendship....and she doesn't know this :)) :)) She starts repeating the same thing she told me before, that everyone who becomes really close to her starts leaving her or slowing drifting away from her.

    As for my other INFP friend, I always tell myself not to mind her irritating actiosn :)) because she's my friend and I trust her enough to believe that she doesn't mean it but then just yesterday and today, she does the same things all over again and I'M GETTING TIRED OF IT :(( :( I can't understand myself anymore.

    So I don't really know if I'm the problem here. Well I think I am because most people bother me I always jump into conclusions like they are irritated by me and stuff. I always FEEL things like rejection and being so different from them in a bad way that I would just never be happy with people.

    I REEAAALLYYY want to solve this because I know that I will never be able to have a nice relationship with people if I don't. I don't even have a "family". Oh God this life is so hard.



    Yeah I get you :) The thing is, I can't get myself to talk to her again because I tried fixing it (messaging her). She tells me not to schedule it blah blah blah. She's too full of herself and she's irritating me TILL NOW...we are in a silent war for about 3 months now. I'm not going to approach her and make a fool of myself. Well, I know saying sorry and stuff won't make me less of a person but I KNOW HER and I just can't take that she likes being superior to people and I don't like her to feel superior to me. SHE'S JUST TOO...... ughh I JUST SO WANT TO PUNCH HER!!!!! OKAY SO IRGHT NOW I F$@#^ HATE HER
     
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