Solidity of air, and the question of wetness. | INFJ Forum

Solidity of air, and the question of wetness.

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Shai Gar, Jul 20, 2008.

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  1. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Is that which we call the air solid? What is it? What exists between the atoms that make up our breathable atmosphere? If you take a survey of what is in any one cubed meter of the air, you'll come up with something that won't fill the full square metre. Thus my question is, what exists there?

    My other query as concerning the question of wetness is a much simpler one. Since we can see that water is merely the atoms of Hydrogen, and Oxygen joined, then what precisely makes anything wet? if you soak a cloth, and then use an atomic microscope to go down between the H2O and the cloth, you'll see a space between them, as if they're not really touching, let alone fused together. What makes it wet? Is anything wet? Is the ocean?
     
  2. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Um...H20 only exists on the molecular level since it takes 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom to form a water molecule.

    Your question seems to be, what is the space between atoms? The fact of the matter is their isn't any real space between atoms in the solid, liquid, or gas state. Pressure and gravity eliminates such space, and the speed at wich the atoms are moving means all space that could be present is occupied at all times by one atom or another.

    It's the same story with the electron cloud. Although it is an extraordinary amount of space to be filled by such insignificant mass as an electron, the eletrons are moving at such extraordinary speeds that at any instant in time, the area is occupied by an electron, whether its from its own atom or from another atom.
     
  3. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    My guesses:

    Is that which we call the air solid? What is it?
    No, its a collection of gases.

    What exists between the atoms that make up our breathable atmosphere?
    I'm not sure, something we can't measure or perceive...

    Then what precisely makes anything wet?

    Wetness is just a sensation, it's just our nerves telling us we are touching a cluster of atoms in a liquid state, it doesn't exist outside of our perceptions.

    I'm guessing our sense of touch isn't strong enough to notice a gap between the cloth and the water atoms, all we feel is cloth covered in water atoms.

    Maybe?
     
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  4. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    You're not getting me. What's between the gases?
     
  5. HenRick

    HenRick Community Member

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    I think there is space between each atom or water molecule.

    Maybe your trying to talk about the unexplained "dark matter" (and no it's not sci-fi stuff).

    Atoms can't be every were at once can they? Maybe the discovery if dark matter does exist
    and what it is exactly might clear out some questions.
     
  6. Inkling

    Inkling Community Member

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    Wetness can be subjective sometimes. There are times when something extremely cold feels wet (perhaps because condensation is starting, but perhaps not), and times when a cool, crisp piece of smooth fabric feels deceivingly wet. I don't know how to begin defining what makes wetness... but i could take a detour here and say it might have something to do with energy.

    This is mere speculation because i don't have any kind of science degree, but these are my thoughts coming from some things i learned, and videos about Cosmology that i watched in my Astronomy class. I was told one of the strangest things you could hear; that there is an astronomical amount of space between and even within each atom (Ie: in proportion to the size of the nucleus and the electrons, the space between them is proportional to the sun and pluto, and even farther) that exists. It's like everyone is their own galaxy.
    This means that even this moment, the atoms in my own body are not touching each other; that 'solid' is only a sensation. But sensations are caused by something... and some of the strongest sensations are caused by friction. Imagine getting close to the blades of a fan that you can almost touch... but such force is coming off of it that you feel it before you even touch. Strange, the idea that friction can cause the sensation of touch. (i know there's also these things called nerves... but we're talking cosmology here; the infinitely small and the infinitely large and hard to grasp)
    There's also the matter of gravity, which may also help explain why people are not constantly dissolving into nebulous clouds of atoms. Gravity pulls it all together.... even when the magnetism of the atoms resist the proximity to each other. Because our gravity is not terribly strong, we can be pulled apart if something with much greater energy and gravity intervenes. For some reason i think that the atoms in metal would move much faster than those in flesh (again, no chemistry background to back me up on this, so if i'm wrong this falls flat) so this is why a sharp enough knife with atoms so close they generate extra energy (gravity and magnetism together... such weird results) can create a much larger chasm between my flesh atoms (hard=strong energy, and soft=weak energy).

    So.... air and the space between is caused by the very weak energy of air molecules... carried like comets and asteroids through each human galaxy that draws them in.

    But the need we have for air is probably explained on a much higher level than I've been focusing on. Mere atoms and forces like gravity, friction and magnetism are just the natural resources and people that populate the country; the things that really decide how the country survives are the congressman, the policeman, the money exchanged, the laws that govern...
     
  7. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

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    I always thought the slower that atoms move the more solid an object is, so a sharp peace of ice could stab your flesh but if you apply heat energy the atoms in the ice move faster and and it melts into water, apply even more heat energy and the atoms move even faster and the water turns to steam.

    So atoms in metal must move slower than the atoms that make up your flesh as the metal is in a more solid state.
     
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  8. Inkling

    Inkling Community Member

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    *smacks forehead*
    d'oh... pardon my absence of common sense... i got so caught up in my theory i forgot to look for known facts that would negate significant parts of it.

    Still... gravity need not imply fast movement. Jupitor is much farther from the sun than we are, and moves slower... yet it has a gravitational pull far superior to Earth's simply because of its magnitude.
     
  9. sriv

    sriv Community Member

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    Are you talking about rotational speed or speed of revolution? Jupiter's day is around 10 hours. For its size, that is really fast.
     
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  10. HenRick

    HenRick Community Member

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    Maybe It's the composition that makes it hard to. If it has more electrons and/or maybe the chemical bond is strong so it causes that hardeness.

    I just recently was studying about photons. Photons are actually smaller than electrons and are what light is composed of. A star emits photons in all
    directions so tho closer you are to it the higher the concentration and the farther away the lower the concentration.

    I guess the equation E=mc^2 might also either show the conversion of mass to electrons or photons. Maybe photons is broken down subparticles.

    I hope this helps. It might just confuse people though.
     
  11. Inkling

    Inkling Community Member

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    Revolution, of course... I was referring to how fast it moves around the sun.
     
  12. Aoiluna

    Aoiluna Newbie

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    This is how I would've answered the question about the space between atoms. ^^^

    When I visualize atoms near each other, the electrons are using up as much space as they can, filling the space that they have. The electrons are moving so fast that there is no spot unfilled and they move faster when farther apart to make sure that that space is filled. Gas molecules move faster than liquid molecules which move faster than solid molecules. the more compressed, the less space that the atoms have and the slower they can move to fill the gaps. at least that is the visual in my mind.

    as for things being wet.... my visual. the first four definitions on dictionary.com for 'wet' are:

    1. moistened, covered, or soaked with water or some other liquid: wet hands.
    2. in a liquid form or state: wet paint.
    3. characterized by the presence or use of water or other liquid.
    4. moistened or dampened with rain; rainy: Wet streets make driving hazardous.

    My visualization... well water molecules are pretty tiny, they can diffuse through cell membranes without requiring energy. since water molecules are attracted to other water molecules (cohesion) and since they are tiny, they will stick together in between the bigger molecules of whatever object it is diffusing through. water moves from high concentration to low concentration, explaining why a dry cloth would soak up water instead of the small water molecules passing through the cloth without sticking at all. (also, water has adhesion properties). water is pretty awesome with all those cool properties :D


    also, I agree with this: V V V

     
  13. OP
    Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Yes, but what makes UP the gaps?

    I miss our conversations.
     
  14. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Collisions. The higher the energy state of matter, the more collisions occur between the molecules.

    On the molecular and atomic level, the space does not exist within matter because of speed.
     
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