Sodmony, Conservatism, and Religion | INFJ Forum

Sodmony, Conservatism, and Religion

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by TheLastMohican, Jun 25, 2010.

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  1. TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    I think Satya meant legal prohibition. Otherwise the word means practically nothing.

     
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  2. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    I disagree culture can be far more powerfull then any law created by congress, teach your children strong values and give them good examples and they will follow suit.

    Seriously though how on Earth would you enforce a prohibition of premarital sex, I can't think of any conservatives who would agree with that kind of law.
     
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  3. OP
    TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    So are you referring to parental prohibition when you say you support it?


    A lot of conservatives agree with laws against sodomy and drug use, even though they cannot be consistently enforced. Feasibility doesn't matter so much to everyone.
     
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  4. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    Seriously though, there are even laws in the Bible regarding sex before marriage. If a man were to take a woman's virginity, then he was expected to marry the girl or compensate the father.
     
  5. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    Please excuse my ignorance, what do you mean by parental prohibition?



    hmm.... well maybe I don't think I as a social conservative could support laws that couldn't be enforced.

    and just to check when you say sodomy, do you mean something close to rape or something else?
     
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  6. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    Different society, different culture, different challenges and different rules.

    Still I like the idea of compensation or marriage, by choice of the daughter(though I have a feeling the father would have decided in Jewish culture).
     
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  7. Satya

    Satya C'est la vie
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    I'm not entirely sure women are keen on being treated like property, but that is just my impression.
     
  8. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    it was sarcastic
     
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  9. OP
    TheLastMohican

    TheLastMohican Captain Obvious
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    Prohibition voiced and/or enforced by the parents, as opposed to prohibition enforced by the government.


    Sodomy is anal or oral sex.
     
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  10. magister343

    magister343 Permanent Fixture

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    Actually, he was to be executed unless he could convince the girl to marry him. If she agreed, he would never be allowed to divorce her as he would have had they waited until after marriage.


    edit: Now that I think of it, I might be thinking specifically of the case when the girl did not consent to the sex in the first place. That does not necessarily mean rape as we think of it though, as a girl was not considered capable of consenting to either sex or marraige unless her father was present to hear it and chose not to overrule her decision.




    Technically such laws only applied to the Jews. Sexually immorality was also banned under the Seven Noahide Laws, but what exactly constitutes sexual immorality and what is to be done about were not specified.







    Are you sure? The term Sodomy has been taken to mean anal sex since the middle ages, and extended to include oral sex during the 19th century, but biblical ought to mean
    something quite different.

     
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    #10 magister343, Jun 25, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  11. OP
    TheLastMohican

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  12. aeon

    aeon Ooh, a bunny!
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    Thanks for that, Satya. I misunderstood what you meant in the first post. I read it as concerning the consumption of alcohol. :embarassed:

    Anyway, my answer doesn't change much at all.


    cheers,
    Ian
     
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  13. magister343

    magister343 Permanent Fixture

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    Did you read the part of my post where I quoted the bible verse that defined the sin of Sodom? If you had you'd see that the biblical definition of Sodomy ought to refer to pride and avarice.

    The idea that Sodomy meant anal sex came from how the people of Sodom tried to force Lot to give over the angels he had as guests so they might rape them. This was after the fate of the city had been decided though, and other places in the bible condemn them not for homosexuality but a lack of hospitality. Xenophobia and especially the prejudice against the poor economic refugees known as illegal immigrants are much closer to a biblical view of "Sodomy" than sex acts are.
     
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  14. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    Wrong. Read the Torah, the original version.

    The city of Sodom was destroyed for it's lack of hospitality.

     
  15. OP
    TheLastMohican

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    This is where the term "Biblical definition" runs into trouble: the Bible is not always internally consistent.

     
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  16. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    The bible verse is invalid. It is supposed to be the talmud, and yet the talmud says it's wrong.
     
  17. OP
    TheLastMohican

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    The Talmud is not part of the Bible.
     
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  18. Shai Gar

    Shai Gar Guest

    The Talmud is where the Old Testament comes from. The verses of Jude were originally from the Talmud. They got translated, and they changed things when they did so.

    Therefore, Jude, is wrong.

    @Barny, where did I mention sexual perversion?
     
  19. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    Caught my post before I deleted it, you didn't TLM did when he referenced Jude, when I mentioned you it was about all of the other sins of sodom you pointed out.


    still this is getting off topic, back to social conservatism and the effects it's having on society.
     
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  20. OP
    TheLastMohican

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    Jude is in the new Testament. It's an epistle. Are you saying that James was copying (and mistranslating) text from the Talmud? If so, why does that mean that we shouldn't include his mistranslations in our consideration of the "Biblical definition"? It was chosen for inclusion in the canon, so I consider it fair game.

    Also, why do you say that the Old Testament came from the Talmud? The Talmud wasn't even written down until after Christ, and the content of theological debates indicates to me that it couldn't have predated the Torah, which included the bases for everything that came afterward.
     
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