So What is a Relationship Exactly...? (bit of a confused rant)

[yepunsarang]

Hello all! I have something to share that has been bugging me for a very, very long time. But I feel that this can't wait any longer and I NEED to figure this out...

I currently really like this INTP (and I'm an INFJ). He seems to be the quintessential INTP type (socially awkward, really interesting mind, not sure of what "love" is, picky, etc). But it seems like I'm the first person he's ever felt really comfortable/ and open with outside of his family. I have quite a knack for doing this hahaha! He's also never been in a relationship before (like me), never "had a girl."

But anyway, I told him that I liked him a while ago. As a clueless INTP, someone who can't really make sense of their emotions let alone see their presence, it's been really weird. I've heard INTPs tend to be more physical in relationships (for lack of being able to express their emotions). So we've made out and all several times. But I've always come out of those circumstances confused.

He seems to be unsure of what he wants. He's scared of "committing", scared of the possibility of us not working out in the future, not even sure what it means to be in a relationship. So for a while, he seemed stressed out and told me that he couldn't possibly be in a relationship now. But for a little while, we went on break and I think he's had time to think things out.

We met up, talked, got cuddly, etc etc. Except this time, he seemed to act and did small things to suggest that he's more open to the idea of a relationship now. He even asked me what a relationship was, what kind of relationship WE were in at the moment lol and he kept talking in terms of what we should do together in the future (and near future), which made me feel like he felt a lot more closer...

So at the moment, we might be in a "complicated relationship." I'm scared out of my wits (being a sensitive, love-avoiding individual for so long.) But I really like him and I know that if I want to make this real, I need to bringing this topic of relationship and commitment up again and make it official (a mutual understanding).

There are just so many things I'm afraid of---1) what the heck goes on in a relationship? Like what are you supposed to do? haha 2) I'm scared that he'll change his mind 3) I know I need to be the one to make this move...he won't do it for SURE. If I decide to, how do I go about asking him about it and making it official??

I'm just scared. Words of support, words of advice, humorous commentary, anything really would be appreciate. Thanks so much guys....I love you all so much!

 

[yepunsarang]

Another thing I'm struggling with: He seems to see "affection" and getting intimate with someone as more equated with the physical. I see it as being in a relationship...so we've been trying to make some compromises here. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Jack]

It seems to me you're both approaching new territory. Take it slow until you can trust and understand each other. I predict that clarity will come after this point. I don't think it would be wise to get more touchy feely than you are comfortable with all of a sudden. If you're both nervous that's probably even less reason to be rushing things.

As for what is a relationship? I would say a bond of emotional closeness with varying degrees. (there's a nice detached definition for you)

 

[sassafras]

A healthy relationship is just basically being in sync with one another and having similar or complimentary wants and needs. You essentially define the perimeters of your relationships, although this is more of a process that works best when it happens naturally. You two needn't worry about what you're supposed to "do" in a relationship; just make sure you're on the same page and respectful of one another's opinions and feelings. Keeping your communication lines open is a must.

 

[testing]

If you want to know what I think:

10 to 1 he really wants to be "in a relationship", and is thoroughly enjoying the physical part as well as the loving/romantic, having-a-girlfriend part, but it sounds like he is only trying to be all cool and macho and pretending he doesn't want a relationship. (Which is actually a tad disrespectful, but I assume he is very young...) I get a very strong impression that if you told this guy that you don't want a relationship, and to please go away and leave you alone... he would be very crushed.

I sense a little bit of fakey fakerson in his actions. I don't believe him. Could be wrong, though, never met the guy!

The Daring Hat Trick is right; you two need to define your relationship. He's probably freaking out because he thinks that "Relationship" means something overly stifling that only whupped unhappily married men with minivans have. This freaks him out.

Well, talk to him about how that is not necessarily what a relationship is. Figure out what the two of you want.

And regarding what a relationship is? A relationship is technically the terms under which two people relate, so you already have a relationship with him, you are just defining the terms. I sincerely hope that you insist on one of those terms being that he treats you well and respectfully.

(Just my two cents!)

 

[slant]

Hmm. I clicked this thread thinking it was going to be an intellectual discussion and defining of relationships like I attempted a month or so ago. That never caught on. I wish people would spend more time defining the concept, instead of going situation to situation trying to solve other people's problems. But anyway...

Communicate with the other party(s) involved in your relationship.

Fear is an anticipation of a perceived event that may or may not happen in the future; the only way to conquer fear is to act and see if that perceived event does or does not happen. Normally, if it was a life endangering task I'd advise you against it if you didn't take the proper safety measures.

But in this case, the fears are emotionally shaped which isn't the same as a physical peril. Remember this if you don't remember anything else:

Emotions are valid, however, they do not need to dictate how we act or how others act. It is okay to feel fearful, but remember that you feel your feelings, you don't live them.

 

[Reon]

Another thing I'm struggling with: He seems to see "affection" and getting intimate with someone as more equated with the physical. I see it as being in a relationship...so we've been trying to make some compromises here. What are your thoughts on this?

Typically people who haven't had sex hold this point of view. Or someone who really isn't in touch with his feelings. Or someone who just really doesn't value sex for it's emotional purposes atm. It's kinda hard just ot make a random guess on it. Unless you want my opinion on it, and my opinion doesn't affect his line of thought so it does not matter.

If you want to know what I think:

10 to 1 he really wants to be "in a relationship", and is thoroughly enjoying the physical part as well as the loving/romantic, having-a-girlfriend part, but it sounds like he is only trying to be all cool and macho and pretending he doesn't want a relationship. (Which is actually a tad disrespectful, but I assume he is very young...) I get a very strong impression that if you told this guy that you don't want a relationship, and to please go away and leave you alone... he would be very crushed.

I really didn't get the vibe that the INTP, as being described in the first post, is pretending to not want a relationship. This almost perfectly describes a generalization that revolves around the INTP and relationships. Honestly, I think he might be a bit conflicted because of what he "thinks" he could lose.

@Slant: I'd be intereted in a thread about what a "relationship" is

 

[testing]

But... it's simple. Isn't it? What is there to debate?

A relationship is how two people relate to each other. That's all. We all have relationships with lots of people, and the INTP and yepunsarang are already in a relationship.

What they really want to know is whether it is a romantic, committed relationship. He probably would like that, at least on some level, or he wouldn't keep coming back and making plans for the future, he'd just leave.

 

[slant]

Well I guess my relationship thread was about companionship and touching about the reasons why, logically trying to diffuse all of them to pointless nothings. It failed, nonetheless...

No one would participate!

 

[Gaze]

Well I guess my relationship thread was about companionship and touching about the reasons why, logically trying to diffuse all of them to pointless nothings. It failed, nonetheless...

No one would participate!

hello . . . how r ya?

 

[testing]

Well I guess my relationship thread was about companionship and touching about the reasons why, logically trying to diffuse all of them to pointless nothings. It failed, nonetheless...

No one would participate!

LOL! I would have participated, but I am not sure I would be a good participant as I don't quite understand... You're asking why people want relationships/companionship? That is what you're interested in exploring?

I suppose there are as many answers to that as there are relationships.

Also, the simple fact that unless you are a hermit and a renaissance genius, you cannot do everything yourself and you'd get lonely and bored if you tried. So we seek out relationships, in their varied forms.

Is that what you mean?

 

[slant]

LOL! I would have participated, but I am not sure I would be a good participant as I don't quite understand... You're asking why people want relationships/companionship? That is what you're interested in exploring?

I suppose there are as many answers to that as there are relationships.

Also, the simple fact that unless you are a hermit and a renaissance genius, you cannot do everything yourself and you'd get lonely and bored if you tried. So we seek out relationships, in their varied forms.

Is that what you mean?

I was speaking more of couple orientated companionship.

 

[yepunsarang]

Thank you all for your advices!

I'm so sorry for not responding to all of your kind words and suggestions...the whole deal has been very rickety for me. I think this INTP of mine is still very confused and uncertain about things (things have literally turned around 180 degrees in a few days). Slant, my apologies for this thread not being an intellectual discussion about relationships (I think I'd like to ponder that myself) but it's just I'm having an awfully difficult time right now and thought you dear, individuals would be able to cheer me up.

Just off the bat though, do any of you know INTPs well? Or perhaps have had a relationship with an INTP?? I'm wondering if all INTPs tend to be confused about their emotions...

Reon: Your points seem to really resonate...For the time I've been away from the forum, one thing has been bugging me---the whole sexual aspect of things. Being a bit naiive, young, and "pure", I never gave the physical part of relationships much thought. But he's very "active" about the idea. It's almost been to a point where I wondered if he just liked to be with me mostly for intimacy.So yes, I think he's not in touch with his "F". I asked him, "So, do you like me?" He got a little angry at me and said, "Can't you tell by the amount of time I spend with you?" (An INTP thing?)

I also wonder for guys in general, if you enjoy being intimate with someone ( regularly and have some sort of deeper connection or friendship with them) do you usually have to have some kind of attachment or attraction to them?

My INTP has told me that he's just really afraid of relationships and he tends to run away from all opportunities to do so. But I think I've convinced him that we should work together and try to overcome our fears---after him going back and forth literally. (We've both never been in a relationship, are sensitive, and have been hurt before)
We've basically agreed to test the waters for a few weeks...so things aren't official yet, but we are in a sort of relationship.

But just today he got a bit more sprightly and when we had lunch today, reached for my hand under the table (first couple-like gesture!!!!). I told him that I hope that *** isn't the only thing that is convincing him to stay around me. He responded, "Oh, no! Of course not!" He's also been texting me and is actively communicative.

I just don't know how much he cares for me, but I know he's making a deep effort. He's told me a bit before that he needs time for feelings to develop, but that the fact that he enjoys my company, must show that he feels something. Please give in your two cents!

Thanks for hearing my wacky rant all! I'm sure you can all tell how disarrayed my mind is right now by my sporadic post!

 

[yepunsarang]

I would really appreciate any comments at the moment, because I just feel very lost and scared at the moment! Thanks~

 

[Reon]

Thank you all for your advices!

Reon: Your points seem to really resonate...For the time I've been away from the forum, one thing has been bugging me---the whole sexual aspect of things. Being a bit naiive, young, and "pure", I never gave the physical part of relationships much thought. But he's very "active" about the idea. It's almost been to a point where I wondered if he just liked to be with me mostly for intimacy.So yes, I think he's not in touch with his "F". I asked him, "So, do you like me?" He got a little angry at me and said, "Can't you tell by the amount of time I spend with you?" (An INTP thing?)

Well, let me first say that I'm an INTJ (one letter difference makes a big difference lol) but I think that since this guy is considering having sex with you, you are already a big part of his life. I don't really know this for certain and I'm assuming for the best here, of course, but I tend to follow the line of thought that most NTs are easily able to control desires like sex and relationships when they need to focus on something else. The fact that he is actively thinking about it, with you, seems to show that he is open to the thought of a relationship. Also, as an NT, a good way to gauge how much I like somehow is by how much I hang out with them and what I do for them (For example, my friend said he absolutely LOVED a poem 4 months ago. I happened to run across it this week and I sent it to him) I'm also touchy feely but that doesn't apply to most people (and most INTJs seem to be lacking this quality)

I also wonder for guys in general, if you enjoy being intimate with someone ( regularly and have some sort of deeper connection or friendship with them) do you usually have to have some kind of attachment or attraction to them?

As an NT, the only way I would be able to have sex is if I felt emotionally attached and attracted to that person.

My INTP has told me that he's just really afraid of relationships and he tends to run away from all opportunities to do so. But I think I've convinced him that we should work together and try to overcome our fears---after him going back and forth literally. (We've both never been in a relationship, are sensitive, and have been hurt before)
We've basically agreed to test the waters for a few weeks...so things aren't official yet, but we are in a sort of relationship.

That's a good thing. I know how it feels to have intimacy issues (I have some superbly bad abandonment issues) and I think that if both of you have issues with intimacy, I think you should start out slow and work through them together.

But just today he got a bit more sprightly and when we had lunch today, reached for my hand under the table (first couple-like gesture!!!!). I told him that I hope that *** isn't the only thing that is convincing him to stay around me. He responded, "Oh, no! Of course not!" He's also been texting me and is actively communicative.

From what I know of INTPs, him interacting with you on a constant basis is a BIG sign of him being attracted to you.

I just don't know how much he cares for me, but I know he's making a deep effort. He's told me a bit before that he needs time for feelings to develop, but that the fact that he enjoys my company, must show that he feels something. Please give in your two cents!

Thanks for hearing my wacky rant all! I'm sure you can all tell how disarrayed my mind is right now by my sporadic post!

I don't think he really needs time to let his feelings develop, I think he is taking time to try and understand them (And rationalize them, but that won't work). I believe he already has feelings for you.

 

[yepunsarang]

Reon:

Thank you so much for your responses! They've all been extremely helpful, and btw, I have a soft spot for INTJs---always have. In some ways, I'm convinced that i'll end up marrying an INTJ/INFJ mixie ;P~

Mmm as for the whole sexual aspect of things, he told me that sex is for fun, a way to bond (potentially) with another person...but largely "fun." But he also said that it would be awkward doing it with someone he doesn't know...I at least only hope that it means he's attracted to me in some way or another. I think my INTP actually has a "hard" time controlling his drive. Whenever I'm around him these days, he's so suggestive...

But yea, he does seem to be staying in touch a lot and the past week or so, we've been with each other every single day. It's a little hard to connect with him though, for some reason, so I'm just afraid that I might end up boring him...I guess the line between being "friends" and being attracted in a further way, is something that's been hard to tell. Hopefully I perk up the courage to urge it further!

Any tips on what I can do? INTPs are cuddly right?

 

[Reon]

Reon:

Thank you so much for your responses! They've all been extremely helpful, and btw, I have a soft spot for INTJs---always have. In some ways, I'm convinced that i'll end up marrying an INTJ/INFJ mixie ;P~

Mmm as for the whole sexual aspect of things, he told me that sex is for fun, a way to bond (potentially) with another person...but largely "fun." But he also said that it would be awkward doing it with someone he doesn't know...I at least only hope that it means he's attracted to me in some way or another. I think my INTP actually has a "hard" time controlling his drive. Whenever I'm around him these days, he's so suggestive...

Hmm, since he says that sex is a fun way to bond and he's being suggestive with you, I think he wants to see where your relationship can go. That's a good sign.

But yea, he does seem to be staying in touch a lot and the past week or so, we've been with each other every single day. It's a little hard to connect with him though, for some reason, so I'm just afraid that I might end up boring him...I guess the line between being "friends" and being attracted in a further way, is something that's been hard to tell. Hopefully I perk up the courage to urge it further!

Any tips on what I can do? INTPs are cuddly right?

Well, he is making effort to connect which is a good thing but you have to remember that he was hurt in the past by trying to do the same thing. He's going to be a little apprehensive and, based on his MBTi and stereotypes, he was going to be a little 'distant' at times anyway. If he is still interacting with you, he does not find you boring.

Hmm. I don't think you should rush the relationship right now but you risk the chance of letting the relationship stagnate. If you want the label of boyfriend and girlfriend, you have to tell him so. You have to tell him that you like him and then let him work with that information. I don't think it'd be a good idea to expect a answer on the spot based on how emotional fragile he is.

I also <3 INFJs. That's probably why I'm still on the site! (Even with the slight disconnect at times)