Should you spank kids?

No, I think its wrong.

I was very rarely hit as a child. Children learn by copying. It doesn't mean not disciplining them, or allowing bad behaviour. Would we ever consider spanking an adult, to "teach them" ?

But I think there's a world of difference in the "tap on the hand" given by a caring parent, and the harsh cruel mistreatment of children by some parents, which may be only verbal

To me a lot depends on the context, but overall I'm greatly against it. I was never afraid of my parents, and I think that's the key issue.
 
Growing up in daycares I saw a lot of spanking and outright abuse. You could put it on a calendar, if a kid got spanked they'd act out more volitally within weeks.

It doesn't solve their issue of being unable to channel anger, it just makes them fearful of expressing anything and so they internalize more.

I was never hit and I threw plenty of tantrums. I was largely punished by taking freedoms and privileges away.

There are effective alternatives. Hitting is lazy.
 
I think that the why and the how are important factors. I think that corporal punishment has its place (I don't mean that it is an essential part of a parent's repertoire), but that place is very small and it is not necessary 9 times out of 10. It should never be performed out of anger, for gratification, or with intent to injure. The propensity for punishment to cross over into abuse, or an abusive pattern, depends largely (I believe) upon the temperament of the parent. A downside is that the more you do it, the less meaningful it becomes.

That aside, a child will best learn lessons through firsthand experiences and not imposed punishment. A hypothetical example where I might consider it due to outlying behavior is if a kid was doing something that could cause grievous harm i.e. having fun shoving smaller kids down stairs or throwing large rocks at them and was not receptive to attempts to deter, educate, counsel, or other forms of punishment like time-out, cutting privileges, etc. Another issue though is what happens if that last resort doesn't work?
 
Sloe Djinn said:
what happens if that last resort doesn't work?
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Sloe Djinn said:
I think that the why and the how are important factors. I think that corporal punishment has its place (I don't mean that it is an essential part of a parent's repertoire), but that place is very small and it is not necessary 9 times out of 10. It should never be performed out of anger, for gratification, or with intent to injure. The propensity for punishment to cross over into abuse, or an abusive pattern, depends largely (I believe) upon the temperament of the parent. A downside is that the more you do it, the less meaningful it becomes.

That aside, a child will best learn lessons through firsthand experiences and not imposed punishment. A hypothetical example where I might consider it due to outlying behavior is if a kid was doing something that could cause grievous harm i.e. having fun shoving smaller kids down stairs or throwing large rocks at them and was not receptive to attempts to deter, educate, counsel, or other forms of punishment like time-out, cutting privileges, etc. Another issue though is what happens if that last resort doesn't work?
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I think making the time to talk and communicate even at a young age, makes a big difference. My dad always explained things to me. Most times kids know themselves, they just need to talk.

I think that's what matters most. That they know you will listen, and they know why there are boundaries. 100% agree on the anger thing, kids are great at pushing buttons, you have to respect them, lol.

They have the ultimate hold, you love them and they will use that. But if you're a good parent you can't spoil them, so you have to be firm when it counts. There should be classes! Aargg. Lol. But then? They give you a hug or whatever. And every hassle and stress was worthwhile.

Then they're suddenly taller than you, and have a beard. Gah kids. Monsters. Lol
 
Sloe Djinn said:
LMAO!
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I fully agree with what you were saying though. My dad once said that he only ever considered spanking if I were to be egregiously putting myself or others in harm's way. Luckily neither of us found me in that circumstance.
 
Apologies laptop/cursor is playing up and I'm not getting my cutting and pasting right this morning...

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I did some crazy stuff as a child (and I don't mean having mini tantrums
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) and got the cane for it (numerous times). Conversations didn't work for me - it was a change in my environment that ultimately created the right kind of behaviour. Also, I'm not sure if this is an intuitive thing...but figuring out and internalising things for myself rather than being told worked wonders.
 
@Isabella I was spanked as a child and caught a belting a handful of times (could probably count the latter on one hand). I agree about the environmental factors which can shape what a child will respond to.

I do remember watching one of those Disney animal documentaries about monkeys living at some abandoned temple. In one scene, you saw a juvenile physically messing with one of the elders. That elder cuffed it, and it fell back dazed. There was no malice in it, and nothing further occurred, but the boundary was poignantly communicated and the hierarchy established in that juvenile's head.

As an aside with respect to that, it makes me think of a group home that I once worked at. I was not well-suited to it. The majority of the youth who were there came from the juvenile justice system. They did not respond well to me and I was one of the least-respected staff. They responded way more readily to staff who had and expressed a more forceful and dominant vibe, who clearly and regularly asserted themselves as pack leaders. Makes sense, as it is what they were accustomed to doing daily with their peers.

Nodding to @Faye , I can't discount that this sort of punishment may have affected me negatively in some way, for example, playing into fears of guilt, failure, or disappointing others.
 
Isabella said:
figuring out and internalising things for myself rather than being told worked wonders.
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Having a healthy space for contemplation and reflection is far different from being denied freedom of expression and being forced to close off. It's an important distinction. I think introverts can sometimes more readily give themselves a healthy space.
 
I don't think spanking is good. It violates the boundaries of the child and usually involves shame or humiliation. I think though that beyond this the way something is done and the reasons for it also must have a bearing. For example if an energetic and spirited child is told - explained about something repeatedly regarding their health or safety but then does something that puts them at risk and is unsafe, maybe it might be used following that incident?
I think the point to consider though is 'is it effective' and if you are mainly eroding the self esteem and boundaries of the child than probably usually not. (It may teach children in later life that it is alright for others to violate them, one way or another).
It sets a far better example to try and explain the rights and wrongs of things and to educate your child, and it engenders self esteem and independence in them. (Having said that who am I to say, I'm not a parent and cannot imagine the trying and difficult scenarios parents might often be faced with).
I was just thinking about other forms of aggression on children and how shouting at children is also very damaging (especially when the parenting is aggressive). I think this should be more in the general debate too.
 
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These days it's difficult to have a serious discussion. You can tell people you were spanked with belts and switches and they will look at your horrified. Everyone has their own idea of what abuse is. It's just the flavor of the day.
Having said that, I do not think its for others to dictate how other peoples children are raised so long as their lives are not put in danger.
I personally think spanking does more harm than good. If spanking does take place it should only be done by a parent.
 
I wouldn’t spank a kid for not listening, usually, but it depends on circumstances. What do you think they’d learn from that? They’d learn to pay attention or else be hurt. I think if you want anxious children, then ok yes, do that.

How are they not listening? Are they not doing something you asked? Are they forgetting things you tell them? Are they just being normal kids in not listening, or are they challenging you? Is this about you? Are you feeling ignored? Are you feeling tired of it all? Are you afraid they don’t respect you? These questions are important because it’s important for you to know whether you are disciplining them, or punishing them for giving you grief.
 
Sloe Djinn said:
@Isabella I do remember watching one of those Disney animal documentaries about monkeys living at some abandoned temple. In one scene, you saw a juvenile physically messing with one of the elders. That elder cuffed it, and it fell back dazed. There was no malice in it, and nothing further occurred, but the boundary was poignantly communicated and the hierarchy established in that juvenile's head.
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@Sloe Djinn Ashamedly sometimes there's no difference between the animal kingdom and our human race...just watch out for those bolshy juveniles (monkey or human :tongueout:) that can't help but find opportunities to rebel.

Wyote said:
Having a healthy space for contemplation and reflection is far different from being denied freedom of expression and being forced to close off. It's an important distinction. I think introverts can sometimes more readily give themselves a healthy space.
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@Wyote Yes important distinction - I agree. I had neither the space for contemplation/reflection and was also denied the freedom of expression. Trauma can strip you from a lot of things - numb our natural desires and keep us trapped in a hazy, unhappy silent world of just existing. The change in environment and a number of other life events generated opportunities for me to find that healthy space and eventually a voice.
 
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