Should philosophy be easy to understand? | Page 9 | INFJ Forum

Should philosophy be easy to understand?

If you consider that there is "nothing to disagree with", you are already proving that you are not a philosopher.

And no, metaphysical platonism is not a mathematical truth, whatever that means. You seem surprisingly ignorant of the fact that the analogy of the Divided Line and its metaphysical implications has been an immensely broad, heated and debated topic for literally millennia. Consider perhaps starting with some readings on nominalism.
Arguing is not going to lead to development, at least in this context. Forgive my poor use of expression in my last post.

I am very knowledgeable about this topic in particular, since I've been studying it, and employed in it. The Divided Line is all about Proportionality.

If you desire certain proof, plug in [1] for the values of [a, b, c] into the quadratic formula and look at the result. Then plug into a calculator [2 x cos(36)] and look at the result.

This is a very common function in physics that was originally discovered by the Greeks. The 36 degree angle is the root of the pentagram.

This function is also the result of the proportionality of Permeability to Permittivity, Ohm's Law, and AC analysis.

I'm just laying down the Truth of the matter whether you accept it or not is your choice. The Divided Line is directly related to what this ratio represents.

The study of Electromagnetism is directly related, since "Fields" are imperceptible "intelligible" by definition, which is why science has so much trouble figuring out what it is in the first place.


Proportionality is of the utmost importance in this discussion because there are no intrinsic units of measurement. All things in our world of opinion can only be measured by proportion, which is why the Divided Line is so important.
 
Where are all these meanies coming from, all of a sudden?

It has been my experience that the vaguer the understanding of the complexity of philosophical debates about a given topic, the more likely one is to make grandiose claims about that topic.

I don't think this is peculiar to philosophy but philosophy always offers the temptation of starting to use vocabulary prior to grasping the full extent of it. I guess in a way this is how we improve philosophically. A few years ago I wrote things on my wordpress blog that make me cringe now, lolol.
 
It has been my experience that the vaguer the understanding of the complexity of philosophical debates about a given topic, the more likely one is to make grandiose claims about that topic.
I am wondering if you still think that my comments are off the mark?

From your last comment I would have to address that my approach has been concise with examples to the point being made. In fact, my point is targeted to just a single aspect of what you are talking about.

I hope it is not considered vague. I was just trying to relay my own experience into the discussion.

Frankly, I think your accusations were off the mark.
 
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I am wondering if you still think that my comments are off the mark?

From your last comment I would have to address that my approach has been concise with examples to the point being made. In fact, my point is targeted to just a single aspect of what you are talking about.

I hope it is not considered vague. I was just trying to relay my own experience into the discussion.

Frankly, I think your accusations were off the mark.

You are associating the principle of the Divided Line with the concept of proportionality. That's fine, though a very partial take on the principle. The only thing I meant to say was that the principle designated a complex ontology, which is called Platonism, with which one may or may not agree.

Whether the concept of proportionality has its origins in the Divided Line (which in itself is not really discussed as such by philosophers and considered antiquated in this form) is another topic, though I'm surprised to hear that it originates in Plato and not in Presocratic philosophers like Philolaus, Pythagoras, etc.
 
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though I'm surprised to hear that it originates in Plato and not in Presocratic philosophers like Philolaus, Pythagoras, etc.
I did associate Pythagoras to it. It is in the post in question. Plato is really just a expository of older works.

My premise is that philosophy is easy to understand when achieved through necessity.

Engineering is far more philosophical than most people realize. When nobody else has a solution, it's always up to the engineers to devise one. Engineers are almost always in this mode of thought. Mathematical intuition is a must, and this implies far deeper understanding of formulas and what they are actually representing than what they teach in school.
 
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I think there are two levels of inaccessibility.

The first is the lofty, ultra-technical language used by certain philosophers (looking at you, Marty). I think it’s probably justifiable to think that such language was used precisely because it would act as a gatekeeper and ensure that philosophy could be established and remain as a high-brow artform and occupation. Camus (probably my favorite philosopher) and others were especially critical of this.

The second issue is that when you look at philosophy as a field of study, it’s essentially one giant conversation with countless participants beginning with, (in the case of Western thought anyway) the Classic Greeks. A person would be able to jump into the conversation at any time, sure, but in order to parse the full subtlety and nuance of the entire conversation, one would need to start at the beginning of the conversation. I don’t mean to say that in order to understand a particular thought point one would have to be well-versed in ALL philosophy, but that it would be better to be familiar with the preceding thought point. Of course, this can get messy really quickly.

So I think in order for philosophy to really be easy to understand, both of these problems would have to be reconciled.
 
The second issue is that when you look at philosophy as a field of study, it’s essentially one giant conversation with countless participants beginning with, (in the case of Western thought anyway) the Classic Greeks. A person would be able to jump into the conversation at any time, sure, but in order to parse the full subtlety and nuance of the entire conversation, one would need to start at the beginning of the conversation. I don’t mean to say that in order to understand a particular thought point one would have to be well-versed in ALL philosophy, but that it would be better to be familiar with the preceding thought point. Of course, this can get messy really quickly.

I rather enjoy thinking of the field of philosophy as one enormous reddit thread.
 
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The first is the lofty, ultra-technical language used by certain philosophers (looking at you, Marty). I think it’s probably justifiable to think that such language was used precisely because it would act as a gatekeeper and ensure that philosophy could be established and remain as a high-brow artform and occupation. Camus (probably my favorite philosopher) and others were especially critical of this.
I'm not sure that this was ever the motivation in using technical language as much as a desire for conceptual precision. Heidegger is pretty annoying, sure, but I never detected that the motivations were 'gatekeeping' until I read Derrida's willful obfuscation. A lot of postmodernist style has this character, but it's scarcely worse than 'international art English'. Generally speaking, the worse the philosophy is, the more they have to engage in such gatekeeping practices in order to justify their position.

I'll be frank: some of the worst I've come across is 'feminist epistemology' (e.g. Lorraine Code) and the stuff that gets regularly printed in Hypatia.

If it's overly grandiloquent or purple, it's probably garbage, but I think there's a difference between that and technical registers.

I rather enjoy thinking of the field of philosophy as one enormous reddit thread.
Nice.
 
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A lot of postmodernist style has this character, but it's scarcely worse than 'international art English'.

Haha, I'm really grateful for this article :D Puts into words a feeling that I've been having for years. International Art English is bullshit!

But I think this apply to other languages than English, too. Some of the stuff I read in Paris when I was visiting the Georges Pompidou Center was pretty cringey.
 
I think there are two levels of inaccessibility.

The first is the lofty, ultra-technical language used by certain philosophers (looking at you, Marty). I think it’s probably justifiable to think that such language was used precisely because it would act as a gatekeeper and ensure that philosophy could be established and remain as a high-brow artform and occupation. Camus (probably my favorite philosopher) and others were especially critical of this.

By Marty, do you mean Martin Heidegger? What's interesting about this is that although Heidegger has the reputation of using a lot of technical jargon, he actually doesn't really. Numerous philosophers in the analytic tradition use a great deal more jargon than Heidegger does. I think the difficulty with Heidegger is that he comes up with a lot of his own terminology, and has an idiosyncratic way of developing it. But from my experience reading him (and I have read a great deal of his material) the principal difficulty with him is not so much what words he uses, but really just how he thinks. He has a very unusual cast of mind and a very peculiar way of understanding concepts like world, being, temporality, etc. Then the second difficulty is that arguably he just isn't a very good writer, unlike Camus. On the other hand, once you get used to the way he thinks (which may take a while), things get easier I have found.

A lifelong conviction of Heidegger is that ordinary language use obfuscates thought about fundamental ontology, and so that as long as one relies on the ordinary use of words, one will remain in the dark about fundamental ontology. One may object to his obscurity at times but he does give a reason for his approach which I do find ultimately compelling — despite, once again, not being a fan at all of the way he writes. His style is very clunky and repetitious.

The second issue is that when you look at philosophy as a field of study, it’s essentially one giant conversation with countless participants beginning with, (in the case of Western thought anyway) the Classic Greeks. A person would be able to jump into the conversation at any time, sure, but in order to parse the full subtlety and nuance of the entire conversation, one would need to start at the beginning of the conversation. I don’t mean to say that in order to understand a particular thought point one would have to be well-versed in ALL philosophy, but that it would be better to be familiar with the preceding thought point. Of course, this can get messy really quickly.

So I think in order for philosophy to really be easy to understand, both of these problems would have to be reconciled.

I think you're absolutely right about that. A solid grounding in Presocratic philosophy and especially Plato/Aristotle can help massively in getting a sense of the debates that having been going on in the discipline since. Conversely, not having this grounding would be a disadvantage I think, and would increase the likelihood of getting confused about the nature of these debates. Almost everything has its origin in Plato and Aristotle.
 
I think you're absolutely right about that. A solid grounding in presocratic philosophy and especially Plato/Aristotle can help a use amount in getting a sense of the debates that having been going on in the discipline since.
"What if cat spelled dog"? - (Ogre, Revenge of the Nerds II)
 
"What if cat spelled dog"? - (Ogre, Revenge of the Nerds II)

Haha. I know what you did there :D

Do you have a position on the relationship between names and entities?
 
Trying to figure out where you can hit me so it hurts, huh? lol

I'm more of what you'd call a beginner.

Oh no, not at all! Sorry, this was a very candid question.

It's all relative anyway — I would often consider myself a beginner as well :wink: