Satya's fondness of religion continues...

Nothing personal, but people do not agree on everything. What is fine with some is immoral to others. That is truth. Some people cannot accept that.

Some places in the world will never accept certain things others see as being alright, whatever that may be.

 

In the comment section of your link I saw something about Madonna so I googled it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ng_gay_couple_to_14_years_hard_labor_for.html

Celebrity support; this won't go away for a little while. We'll probably get an update on this when they appeal, and most likely fail.

I don't know what to say about this one. Just that I do care about how this turns out. Even though it is in another part of the world and they hold their traditional beliefs. Criminality and legal definitions set the tone and course of a nation. Even If appealing the trial changes any part of the law it won't change the social stigma overnight. That's okay, change takes time. At least those two men wouldn't be persecuted by their country for doing nothing wrong.

 

Sorry I was out last night.

Christians are not the only people that see certain things as immoral.

 

Justifying your prejudices against a group based on the actions of individuals is wrong and you know it.

If someone were to point at the actions of criminals that were of a certain race as evidence of that race being criminals, it would be racist. When a man or a woman does something stupid, to assume that their behavior reflects their entire gender is sexist. When a politician is caught doing something immoral, it is foolish to accuse their whole party of the same. When a gay person has sex with an underage boy, does that mean all gays are pedophiles? Of course not.

These finger pointing stunts just make you look prejudiced and petty.

 

^^
This.

 

I'm invalidating an excuse for your hatred.

And no, it's not religion that is the only thing that makes homosexuality an issue. Many straight males in the world are made uncomfortable by homosexuality on a gut level. The problem is, some of them use religion as an excuse to justify their feelings... kinda like what you've been doing all this time, using these examples to justify your feelings.

 

How very true.

 

> justifying your actions of hatred by referring to a non-existing deity. (Or to a fairy-tale book written about the non-existing deity)

 

People are in fact born homophobic, Satya. It is human nature to be intolerant of anything that defies that individual's own instincts. Civilization, education, and tolerance are the reason society accepts homosexuality in our modern era. The problem isn't that religion is teaching people to be intolerant. The problem is that people who refuse to become tolerant have a tendency to use religion as an excuse for their natural instincts when they can't validate them otherwise. The fact that religion teaches people to be tolerant is the biggest reason homosexuals aren't persecuted worse in the free world by teaching people to overcome their gut reactions, be they offense at people who are different, the urge to steal, rape, murder, or whatever else. The ethical and moral lessons that have helped forge the civilization we now have are the results of the influence of religion. You're very clearly attacking religion as a whole because of the actions of a few who are practicing it incorrectly, and that's just as wrong as claiming black people are violent and stupid because there are numerous examples of black people who are uneducated commiting violent crime. Crime is just as much a choice as religion. Or to take it even further, it is wrong to assume gay men all want to have sex with little boys because there are numerous instances of homosexuals raping little boys. Who we have sexual relationships with is a choice (note: I'm not saying who we are attracted to is a choice, just what we choose to do about our attraction), just like the choice to follow a religion. You can choose to be responsible, ethical, and mature in your choices no matter what your instincts may say about them.

...and I know several atheists who are very 'grossed out' by homosexuality, and tease them about it frequently. I'm a minister and I have more gay friends than they do. Why? Because religion teaches people to be tolerant. If you're using religion to validate intolerance, you're using it wrong.

 

I think homosexuality is your religion, and you're offended by heretics.

I suppose it's easier to justify intolerance than to let go of it.

 

And you often attack the irrational with the same mechanisms that the religious use to attack those who don't agree with theirs.

Which I agree is bullshit. Yes, the minister said it is bullshit.

Because tolerance isn't conditional.

Unfortunately, these things do exist and are one of the reasons why people cling to them in the face of reason to the contrary.

Not everyone has these specific instincts you've mentioned and the multitude of others along the same lines, but they certainly exist in various people, because it is human nature to have an instinct to be repelled by that which offends our own instincts. Most people are repelled by the idea of eating poop, and are grossed out by people who do. Obviously, this is an extreme example, but the mechanism is the same and occurs in people in proportion to the strength of those instincts. I'm not trying to justify these behaviors, simply explain why they exist, as well as point out that religion is one of the biggest reasons why we as a civilization seek to overcome them.

I'd love it if you could become more tolerant of religion, even if you don't learn how to be tolerant of individual people who are ignorant.

 

God help you. P) When someone says stupidity is sin or evil (eg: one ENTJ i know), I think wow they must be walking around quite pissed every day.

On-topic: yeah, bigotry is everywhere, in religion, in atheism, in homophobes, in homosexuals ; and people eagerly proclaim what is natural and what is choice, excluding the possibility that it may be neither.

And by the way, why is it called homophobia? That should mean someone who has a phobia of those who are the same as him/her; or has phobia of sameness, why presume sexuality whenever the homo is present; our species is called homo too. Linguistics is such a mess..