Religious Fundamentalism as a mental illness? | INFJ Forum

Religious Fundamentalism as a mental illness?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Skarekrow, Jun 2, 2013.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 1 user.
More threads by Skarekrow
  1. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    Wow....don't all post your opinions at once....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    Guess it's too touchy of a subject....
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Threads:
    76
    Messages:
    10,566
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    6,790
    Trophy Points:
    1,215
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Texasssss.
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9 Mediator
    What about this article do you find most intriguing?

    I suppose this is preferable than bombing everyone.

    But from my perspective most of society is suffering from some kind of mental disturbance - fundamentalist or not. Who will treat the insane - if the therapists are insane themselves?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    True...who is sane and who isn't? I find articles like intriguing personally as I don't really have a personal belief in regards to faith....I have very small amounts of it. I have taken bits and pieces from many different religions to shape my own personal ideas of what is logical and makes sense to me...but I have always had a very difficult time when it comes to taking that next step and actually just "letting go" and having faith. I do believe in a God, I do believe that the angels do or did at one point exist(ed), I do believe that certain people are re-incarnated, and that karma is a very real thing. Of course you know from other conversations that I have had some very odd personal experiences that have shaped certain personal beliefs...but even after that, I have a difficult time surrendering my will and letting faith take over. I was raised Mormon as a child, but around age 14 my older brother came out of the closet and my parents chose him over the religion (which is very awesome of them, I have known many past acquaintances who's parents disowned them for the same thing) as the Mormon religion feels they cannot enter the kingdom of God. I'm sure this has shaped my beliefs in certain ways, namely a religion that I was raised in all of the sudden being null and void. But also made me start to question the nature of God, is he just? He is said to be just and fair, and above all else - Loving. In regards to my brother I could not see a God who is said to have also created my brother for all he is (and being Gay in NOT a choice, there is no way in Hell that he CHOSE to have some of the horrible things happen to him because of how he is) and is said to be loving above all else damn him to hell. (which is something else I absolutely do NOT believe in, I feel it was created by those who wished to wield power over the masses) It just never made sense to me.
    So I seem to always walk the fence...stuck at the top, not able to jump down on one side or the other.
    This is why I value the input of other's on the subject...how do you have faith in something? My Father died a few years ago...and I like to think he has visited me a few times...I know I have dreamt of him...I have felt his presence when I was failing...but I don't know if my mind created this to comfort me or was he really there somehow?
    Ugh...more and more questions come up the more I type, and therefore I will stop here.
    Thank you for your input.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Threads:
    76
    Messages:
    10,566
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    6,790
    Trophy Points:
    1,215
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Texasssss.
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9 Mediator
    Why do you want to have faith?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. muir

    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Threads:
    39
    Messages:
    11,076
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Hi scarecrow

    There is an ongoing dispute over to what extent people are affected by environment v's genes

    I read an article recently that was looking at what makes people violent. It said there were a number of factors for example: nutrition, levels of exposure to heavy metals and levels of exposure to violence growing up

    It said that people with a very low resting heart rate were more likely to be violent because they needed to do more extreme things to feel a buzz

    The picture i came away with is that the best way to reduce the number of violent people in our society is to ensure that as many people as possible bet good nutrition, are not exposed to lots of heavy metals and are not exposed to lots of violence

    The study said that even if a person has a very low resting heart rate it doesn't mean that they will be violent if they are given a good nurturing upbringing

    On one hand this is all good news because it means that our society can be better and doesn't need to be like it is. The bad news is that the corporations seem hellbent on exposing people to poor nutrition, heavy metals, violence and many other factors that are detrimental to a healthy, nurturing upbringing

    Concerning studies regarding things like 'religious fundamentalism' i think there is a need for caution because the people behind the corporations have a very clear agenda of control. They wish to control humanity and they push many serotonin uptake inhibiting drugs on people after pumping them full of coca cola, mcdonalds, violent video games and movies etc

    They are always looking to create arguments that sound convincing to act as excuses for carrying out methods of control on people. For exmaple they are constantly expanding the DSM psychiatric classification so that they can deem any human behaviours as a disorder which then legally permits them to detain and forceably drug any people who do not comply with the government/corporations agenda

    For example if you lose a loved one and feel sad, they want to be able to classify your greif as a disorder and to prescribe you mood altering drugs instead of allowing you to process something that has been a natural process for.....well for our entire evolution

    This would of course be very profitable for the corporations but it also is a step closer to the stage they want us to be at where they have total control over our moods so that they can make us docile and compliant slaves

    There are people within the pentagon who are working on nanotechnology weapons. nanotechnology is so small that it can be inhaled or can pass directly through the skin. This means that it can be applied as an aerosol spary either directly onto the target or more generally released into the atmosphere; it can also be applied through vaccines such as the ones that the corporate stooge Bill Gates is trying to force on people around the world right now

    Below is a video froma meeting in the pentagon discussing the use of nanotechnology sprays that would target parts of peoples brains for nuetralisation. This would they say be used to quell religious extremism but essentially it will be used to silence anyone who is angry at how 4 big oil companies and the central banks which handle their money are bullying the entire world and spreading violence and corruption around the world.

    If you stand against the corporations you are 'an extremist' or 'a terrorist' and are clearly in need of being shut down as a free thinking/feeling individual:

    [video=youtube;6S183cVYS9c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S183cVYS9c[/video]
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Threads:
    323
    Messages:
    10,047
    Featured Threads:
    49
    Likes Received:
    5,626
    Trophy Points:
    1,102
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    MBTI:
    INTJ - A
    Enneagram:
    10000
    Fundamentalism is an American protestant rejection of philosophical modernism's explanation of religion. Ie. the rejection of the notion that religion is purely a human construct, with no actual basis in revelation by a deity.

    It seems that the article has an underlying assumption that the notion of theistic belief is fundamentally wrong. Ie. the article is atheistic-fundamentalist in its outlook.


    I think fundamentalism is overcome by a willingness to think critically about one's basic assumptions and beliefs - be they religious, or atheistic.
     
  9. Eventhorizon

    Eventhorizon Permanently relocated
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Threads:
    251
    Messages:
    16,542
    Featured Threads:
    31
    Likes Received:
    10,280
    Trophy Points:
    2,187
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    I do have faith...I just have an issue taking the step in the full blind belief in something...it isn't that I don't believe the things I believe it's that I am constantly questioning WHAT I believe...does that make sense?
    Thank you for your response...I have NO doubt that the governments of the largest nations in this world are trying to control the general population...this goes back to ancient history...and is part of the reason I have no belief in Hell itself is mainly the religion I was raised in but also through my own research i.e. the original word that were later mis-translated, Sheol, Tartarus, Hades, and Gehenna, two mean "grave", one is the land of the dead, and Gehenna was a burning trash dump that Jesus likened to the hearts of mankind. Somehow they were all translated into the word "Hell" with a very different meaning to boot. There is no where in the Bible that talks about man being tortured for all eternity for their sins. In fact as Jesus was dying on the cross his own words were "Father forgive them for they no not what they do." I would imagine that killing Jesus would be about the worst sin imaginable...why would our petty sins damn us for all eternity? Somehow the Catholic church and those before them have twisted what is book about how to live as a good person into a tool for fear and control with a little help from Dante's Inferno for extra torturous description.
    There are many studies showing that children that are breast-fed are around 80% less likely to become a felon...very interesting. I have no doubt that certain things have been done to the population at large...from something as simple as the "bliss point" in certain foods (the perfect triangle of sugar, fat, and carbs.) that the mind has trouble putting down....all the way to spraying certain things over the general population, and exposing soldiers to god knows what. What is the course of action? What can we do other than be aware of what is happening?


    Would you say that the American Evangelical institution is extremism? How about the modern day Catholic church? I would have to say yes. So where is the line between healthy faith and the path beyond?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    muir likes this.
  11. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    Interesting video...I can't say that I agree 100%, but I also can't discount certain things that make logical sense....being in the medical field all my life, I am very knowledgeable in this arena. And while this looks to be an extremely biased video...it still intrigues me.
    Thanks for the extra doubt...I don't believe doubt or self-doubt is a negative thing...just so long as it doesn't shut you down...so long as you can learn from it I think it is healthy.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. Matt3737

    Matt3737 Similes are like songs in love.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Threads:
    48
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I don't mean to be offensive, but this is some of the most idiotic hyperbole I have ever had the unfortunate occasion of coming across.

    When I say I don't mean to be offensive I mean that I understand if your views have been shaped by the idiocy of fundamentalist zealots similar to the likes of Westboro Baptist Church, but that does not, in my opinion, condone sinking to their level of reasoning.

    I made a relevant post on the topic of religion and science recently. See here.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    I don't take any offense at all...we all have our own beliefs and our ideas are shaped by that. That is a very interesting post and I agree with it. I don't have any issue with anything posted there....I have an issue with a belief in the intangible...I have seen certain things in my life that are illogical...that really should not have happened by any logical stretch, and yet, I cannot help but think they will some day be explained. I guess my mind is always searching for a logical explanation for things and I would rather I could blindly take that step of faith in something that will possible never be explained....ignorance is bliss? That isn't how it feels when I reach for it...to me it would seem that if I could have that faith in something then it would eliminate a certain amount of doubt and allow me to move forward with my own personal growth.
    I don't know if that makes sense or not....it does to me. I can see that your mind works in many similar ways but is far more logic based than my own.
    Anyhow, thank you for your response...I take no offense.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. Matt3737

    Matt3737 Similes are like songs in love.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Threads:
    48
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    I wasn't referring to you specifically, but to the hyperbole of the topic and those that would engage in such. Spirituality is instictive in human beings because we're self-aware of our mortality.

    You've been expressing a good deal of interest in your own personal spiritual views, so if you'd like to discuss that as well...

    Religion (in the traditional sense) and spirituality seek to address the superrationality of mortality and purpose. Because death, nonexistence, infinity, and the inconceivable are concepts only paradoxically within our logic we our bound to address them for our own mental well-being.

     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Threads:
    76
    Messages:
    10,566
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    6,790
    Trophy Points:
    1,215
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Texasssss.
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9 Mediator
    What does that feel like - in you - when you read those words?

    As for constantly questioning - yes I think I can relate to what you're saying.

    Wouldn't you agree that our understanding and knowing is constantly evolving and a process of sorts? Constantly questioning would seem to be a normal act throughout a lifetime.

    When you say "full blind belief" are you talking about letting go of resistance to it because you want control? Like letting go of control of your life experience?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. Eventhorizon

    Eventhorizon Permanently relocated
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Threads:
    251
    Messages:
    16,542
    Featured Threads:
    31
    Likes Received:
    10,280
    Trophy Points:
    2,187
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INTJ
    I can provide even more doubt if you are interested... :)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Skarekrow likes this.
  17. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    I do believe in a life after death...but is that a spiritual thing or is it just the energy that is out "soul" yet unmeasured by science evolving or continuing on as energy only changes form and never really ends? There are so many near death experiences to back the claims of life after death. There is even the study of a Neurosurgeon who was technically "brain-dead", the doctors and family were ready to pull the plug, and yet he wakes up and has fantastical stories of his travels around the earth, into space, and into another dimension. If it were a dream though, there should have been something showing on the EEG, but there was ZERO brain activity....very interesting...it's instances like this this that give me what I would consider "faith" because it becomes tangible to myself being medically educated. It clicks with me and makes sense.
    At the same time I have had certain bizarre experiences that science cannot explain....? I do not fear death actually, and perhaps that is part of why I cannot step off the fence...I have seen countless people die, some old, some young, some peacefully, and others in horrible ways...I know many people may make this claim of not fearing death but I'm not being egotistical here...my only regrets would be to leave my loved ones and the pain it may cause. If it all goes black, so be it...I like to think there is more and the near death experiences are not just dying neurons...how to take that step is what is cannot figure out.

    I understand your point...it's just an incredibly frustrating issue for me...I want to believe...how do I do that? Where did the power of intention go in this regard?
    How do you push past the veil?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Matt3737

    Matt3737 Similes are like songs in love.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Threads:
    48
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    The quotes are due to me copying my answers to a similar line of inquiry at another forum. I've had this same conversation before.

    Everyone is afraid of death in some manner. It's how we survive. That's why spiritual beliefs are instinctual within us, because we're aware of our eventual demise while simultaneously avoiding, preventing, delaying, and rationalizing it.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Skarekrow likes this.
  19. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Threads:
    105
    Messages:
    18,499
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    36,041
    Trophy Points:
    2,476
    MBTI:
    Ni-INFJ-A
    Enneagram:
    Warlock
    I can honestly say that the only fear of death that exists in the fear of the pain I would cause those I love, which at an earlier point in my life was bypassed by what seemed the most logical conclusion at the time...the conclusion that I didn't have a place in this life and never would...which holds true to this day. Of course I have a job where I "fit"...I have immediate family that is accepting of me and there are those whom I love with all my heart that I would miss. The only true fear of death I have is the fear that I would cause them pain and I possibly would never be able to see them again. But as far as an actually fear of the instant that I will die whenever that will be...it has long been gone. At the age of 19 I attempted suicide and would have succeeded if not for a random stranger walking by my car, calling 911 and the police breaking the car window and the paramedics taking me to the hospital for severe blood loss. This experience has eliminated any such true "fear" of this process that remained. I know you may not believe me when make that statement but that along with my actual job and being around and seeing death and dying has shaped my views and feelings on the subject. I feel bad for those who I see die...especially when it is a child for example and I can relate to my own step-son...but if it were me it would be a non-issue.
    I do not go after death because yes, that is how we carry on...but I'm not purposefully delaying the inevitable...I don't crash the car because I may not die, I may become a paraplegic, I do not kill myself now because I would never hurt my son in that manner, there are reasons that I don't seek it...but should it find me I will be at peace.
    .
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. Matt3737

    Matt3737 Similes are like songs in love.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Threads:
    48
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Forgive me, I do not doubt you. I don't mean to suggest that it is impossible to come to terms with dying or our fear thereof, but fear is natural. I mean it in a very broad sense though, not as a specific occurrence. Like you said, you've had your own experiences with fear, death, and dying that have shaped your current perspective.

    I mean to say that we oftentimes conflate death with dying and forget how broad and abstract the concept of death is and how complex our responses to it can be. Dying we can readily identify and come to terms with, albeit it reluctantly. Typically, we come to terms through confronting our fears. What are we willing to die for? How do we wish to pass and what experiences might we be unable to come to terms with? Disease, torture, or drowning? Certainly, few desire a horrible, insufferable, dishonorable, or ignoble death. All in all we desire to reduce our fear and anxiety regarding the inevitable, which naturally leads us to the next problem in coming to terms which is what 'being dead,' or the 'afterlife' means and how it shapes our perceptions towards living and dying in a process of confrontation. Attempting suicide, risk-taking behavior, religious devotion, escapism, aggression, etc. can all be manifestations of confronting fears and insecurities. Feeling like life is ultimately meaningless may seem like an unrelated issue to a fear of dying, but the abstract concepts of 'fear' and 'death' are intimately associated with 'life' and 'meaning'.

    Death then, is more abstract, unknowable, and hence problematic to deal with. Why does the passing of a loved one emotionally hurt if we understand it as a natural occurrence? Why do we have any feelings whatsoever regarding the dead? Can we simply choose how to feel about it? Why shouldn't we commit suicide or kill others? Why is that bad? What does it mean? What purpose does it serve? How does it shape the meaning of our existence? What does it mean to no longer exist? Why do we want to understand death and the concept of 'after life'? Why is it important? Does it matter? Can we eliminate fear altogether? Why should we want to no longer experience fear or dread? Is it wrong to fear death or is it wrong to fear being afraid or is it wrong to question what is right or wrong?

    Edit: A better use of 'fear' in a broad sense might be that of 'negativity' regarding our emotions. Because we have emotions towards our emotions, they operate as a feedback cycle. We have 'positive' emotions like joy, affection, excitement, and 'negative' emotions such as 'fear,' 'sadness,' 'anger,' and 'hatred.' Part of our confrontation is dealing with those 'negative' emotions in a positive manner rather than negatively or else we become caught in a vicious cycle where emotional and psychological problems can develop. It's easier said than done.

    I mean to say that mortality is the central tenet that spirituality is to address. It is a broad concept that affects every aspect of life, so it can be equally complicated in trying to address or talk about. Meditation, prayer, and/or counseling are all helpful methods in managing the complexities of our emotions. I apologize if I didn't explain well enough. It's quite a bit to delve into and process all at once.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #20 Matt3737, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
    Skarekrow likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page