Recurring Workplace Incompatibilities

[shafishstix]

Hi all, this is my first time posting on this forum and i'd just like to pick peoples brains for an issue i have been having to see what others have to say.

From what i can gather i have very strong INFJ traits which i assume many on this forum would take to be a good thing. However from personal experience i have found this not to be true.

Maybe this won't ring any bells for others, but i will try anyhow. My recurring issue is the difficulties i have personally integrating into volunteering/workplaces/educational associations and to some degree "society".

My problem is somewhat complex, but the simplified version is that i basically dont agree well with office politics/personal games (and more generally) unnecessary bull from people.

Its causing a really big disturbance in my life, i find i move from activity to activity without making any tangible progress (either work or socially). I cant seem to find the right "niche" or even formula that works for me (as dumb as it probably sounds).

Im 29 now and although well educated havent reached stable employment. I do have OCD and depression but that is a bit beside the point because that isn't really the issue, my personality is. I just can't seem to see past the indifference and lack of caring many people have for one another.

I refuse to contribute or play along with "the games" people play which im well aware paints a target on my back. I dont undertand how such a high percentage of people can superficially look at each other without looking a bit deeper (despite having some measure of contempt for ever becoming and adult).

As far i see, money seems to be the cohesive glue that brings people together otherwise we all would be a very uncooperative lot and chaos would reign.

I dont know, i do have "some" tolerance for differences of opinion but it seems like you need a insane amount to get buy on this somewhat crazy planet. Im not sure, maybe i should join the game of oblivious (or corrupt) people so i can make my way little further.

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Poetic Justice]

The world isn't going to change to suit your opinions and points of view. If you go through life expecting or hoping them too then you will fail and make yourself miserable at the same time.

You say you have 'some' tolerance for others. Well, there's your problem. You need more tolerance.

Many people see the world in many different ways. Yours isn't the right way, just one way among many.

People have different priorities and opinions, they have different views on life and on right and wrong.

We are all different. If you want to fit in you have to learn to play by societies rules. You have to learn to communicate with many different types of people on their level. You don't have to agree on everything. Just accept that their points of view are just as valid as yours

Your problem is the way you have judged those who don't share your point of view as being oblivious or corrupt.

Others aren't oblivious. Just different. perhaps they consider you oblivious to their point of view too

Very few people are corrupt.

Maybe I haven't worded this right, please feel free to object to any of this so I can clear it up a bit as I'm not sure I've said what I wanted to.

Basically, you need to forgive them for their differences. forgive them for the actions you disagree with.

Because most people are lovely

 

[shafishstix]

I definitely think they would think i am oblivious, i wish i had cause to have the same opinion of people you do. These are conclusions i have reached after trying (trying really hard) to fit in and achieve positive outcomes. I havent held these beliefs for long but i've recently held a hard evaluation on my situation and my warm heartedness and (openness) has brought me nothing. I just dont think people understand me.

I can definetely understand that everyone has different priorities, but beating each other down shouldnt be one of them. Its not that i dont understand diversity of opinion, its the act of bringing another down to inflate ones self worth that really gets to me. Like i said i have been open to people but when people start getting rough with you what other option do you have but to shut away or tune out?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Poetic Justice]

I can definetely understand that everyone has different priorities, but beating each other down shouldnt be one of them. Its not that i dont understand diversity of opinion, its the act of bringing another down to inflate ones self worth that really gets to me. Like i said i have been open to people but when people start getting rough with you what other option do you have but to shut away or tune out?

Everyone has to put up with troublesome people. Accept that you will meet more of them.

It will happen again

It will happen again to everyone

Forgive them (to yourself) and move on. Brooding about it solves nothing

Don't think about the "why's", think about the "how's". Whenever you catch yourself thinking about why you don't fit in, change to thinking how you can fit in.

Doing a bad thing doesn't make someone a bad person. We all do bad things. Forgive them and yourself

 

[shafishstix]

I just noticed your signature, thats a very humorous take on the sort of things we a talking about. I'll try the methods you have described, generally i dont judge harshly (i really am a nice person) but rather then feel victimised like i usually would when people start, i just think that its seems a very wrong thing to do (and that they have the problem not me). I dont no, i think i've had an overabundance of these kinds of people as of late.

I think i become too focused on the integrity i conduct myself with and that of other people. This must be a grossly unrealistic standard...

 

[Poetic Justice]

I've had to put up with many people who want to see others fail in my life. Because i so easily see through facades and deception it makes me a target of the types of people that put on facades and deceive others. They are simply trying to remove the threat. To get rid of the person who there lies have no effect on so they can go back to being the person that they have convinced everyone else they are

I forgive them

They are making the best decision available to them based on how they view the world.

But isn't that the same thing we're all doing?

Aren't we all just taking the action that seems the best at the time. Sometimes we get it wrong, sometimes we get it right

It's so much easier to forgive than to hold all that anger in yourself.

 

[shafishstix]

Yes im rather like yourself where if there is an agenda people have i can quickly uncover it (and then makes me a target too). But dont you have troubles forgiving people when as a group they tackle into you? For me that is kinda like a level of apathy that i despise. I really dont know how you have the inner strength to forgive such people, it seems like such a lofty goal for me to acheive...

 

[Poetic Justice]

Yes im rather like yourself where if there is an agenda people have i can quickly uncover it (and then makes me a target too). But dont you have troubles forgiving people when as a group they tackle into you? For me that is kinda like a level of apathy that i despise. I really dont know how you have the inner strength to forgive such people, it seems like such a lofty goal for me to acheive...

It takes a lot more effort to hold on to the anger

Humour me here...

If you had to teach me to be bitter about the things you are bitter about how would you do it?

Do I start thinking about it as soon as I get up or do I have to wait for something to happen?

 

[Chamomile]

I can definitely relate! First of all, what kind of places have you been employed at? What is your degree in? I'm sure you'd prefer to not get to specific and that's fine, but people like you are drawn to certain places, careers, hobbies, etc.

Everyone's different and each type offers necessary things to society, BUT I know it can be hard when you thrive on doing things that matter to humanity and assist people in some tangible way. I know for me, I have a very hard time holding down 'normal' office jobs where the first, second, and third priorities are revenue. I can't care, I can't generate passion because its just pointless to me. It's all busy work. It sounds like you share a bit of that and need to feel like what you do matters. There are many lists out there of careers that INFJ's tend to thrive in that might give you a good idea where you can meet people that care the way you do.

Of course, there will always be the people you dislike, and Poetic Justice is right: You need more tolerance. It helps a lot when you have an INFJ friend you can vent to later to make fun of the shallow or straight up dumb people. However, they will always be there and you'll never be at peace until you can rise above it.

That said, there are branches of every business where an INFJ could fit in. Like Human Resources, for example. I'd recommend some digging in that regard and see what jumps out at you.

Gross generalization alert: I think you've been dealing with a lot of extroverts. Some of my best friends are extroverts, but no, they generally can't really understand how I, as an introvert, operate. I find there's a lot more drama and unnecessary crap going on where there are lots of extroverts. I find myself asking 'Why the hell are we even talking about this? What a waste.' during extrovert-dominated conversations. It can be so, so hard to deal with when everything about you can't identify with that. But there are places where extroverts aren't as much the majority and you can find people with your priorities.

In her book, 'The Introvert Advantage,' Marti Laney gives a lot of great tips on dealing with everyday life and work in our extroverted society. It helped me SO much in realizing what about me is just how I'm made and that I need to create a life that fits it. She's not specific on INFJ, but overall it might help you cope If you need any outside-the-box help in generating ideas or whatever, feel free to message me and I'll do what I can.

 

[uuu]

Try smiling
And forget about what could be

 

[shafishstix]

Thanks all for your replies i appreciate it. In response to poetic justice's question: well generally i would say you would have to wait for something to happen (and then think about it differently). You would need to realise that your tendency to be receptive and perhaps sensitive is often being used against you, or that those traits are largely frowned upon by the majority and discouraged in favour of resilience and hardeness.

You would have to realise that despite the attributes you value within yourself, others will not see nor appreciate and that "you as a person" seem to be hindered to effect positive change in your life and to find meaning because you are different. You would need to see that people largely choose to point the finger first before taking accountability for a situation and they do that because that is the easy way out (and that action does nothing to help the worlds problems).

Many choose to be nasty to those they view as outsiders and if you cant help but to be in that situation, then you are likely to remain in perilous circumstances.

In response to to chamomile: Im trained in graphic/web design, computer science and computer security. Like you my priorities are not related to obtaining status or bringing great profits to myself or a company. Im kinda very interested in the preservation of the environment and the proper treatment of animals. But i cant stand to be next to a suffering animal and the environment well... what difference can one person really make?

I enjoy computer games and that was what i was originally training to do, but after some time of thinking about it i can't really see that as a meaningful occupation to go in to, its too enshrined in capitalism, deadlines and the bottom dollar. I often have it suggested to me that maybe tutoring or mentoring would be a good fit for me, but i have a confidence issue where im not sure i can give everything that "may" be expected...

I also often hear people say that for me, it is a matter of finding the right niche that fits me... and i totally agree, but it seems to be taking a very long time.

Yeah your right ultrauber.

 

[Poetic Justice]

Thanks all for your replies i appreciate it. In response to poetic justice's question: well generally i would say you would have to wait for something to happen (and then think about it differently). You would need to realise that your tendency to be receptive and perhaps sensitive is often being used against you, or that those traits are largely frowned upon by the majority and discouraged in favour of resilience and hardeness.

You would have to realise that despite the attributes you value within yourself, others will not see nor appreciate and that "you as a person" seem to be hindered to effect positive change in your life and to find meaning because you are different. You would need to see that people largely choose to point the finger first before taking accountability for a situation and they do that because that is the easy way out (and that action does nothing to help the worlds problems).

If you then had to teach me how to handle these situations better at what point during this process would you advise I do something different?

What would that difference be?

 

[shafishstix]

Well perhaps to let things go before they become more of an issue. I dont know maybe i need some good people in my life who i know genuinely care about me and the things i care about, you know something that balances things out a bit better. Cause this challenge will probably be the single most important one ill encounter in my life and one which i must get over.

Perhaps i should radically change the amount of allowances i give to people whos values are different from my own (sometimes totally different). Maybe that would provide more opportunity for new things to happen. I dont know it kinda hurts the more i get involved with people. I think it still may take me time.

 

[Seraffa]

The world isn't going to change to suit your opinions and points of view. If you go through life expecting or hoping them too then you will fail and make yourself miserable at the same time.

You say you have 'some' tolerance for others. Well, there's your problem. You need more tolerance.

Many people see the world in many different ways. Yours isn't the right way, just one way among many.

People have different priorities and opinions, they have different views on life and on right and wrong.

We are all different. If you want to fit in you have to learn to play by societies rules. You have to learn to communicate with many different types of people on their level. You don't have to agree on everything. Just accept that their points of view are just as valid as yours

Your problem is the way you have judged those who don't share your point of view as being oblivious or corrupt.



Others aren't oblivious. Just different. perhaps they consider you oblivious to their point of view too

Very few people are corrupt.

Maybe I haven't worded this right, please feel free to object to any of this so I can clear it up a bit as I'm not sure I've said what I wanted to.

Basically, you need to forgive them for their differences. forgive them for the actions you disagree with.

Because most people are lovely

What is an INXX, specifically, and why on earth do people in England always seem to think the vast majority of people in this world are "lovely" ? You ought to meet my sister who's right outside Birmingham - but when you do I think you'll have a swift change of heart forthwith, unfortunately.

 

[Seraffa]

Hi all, this is my first time posting on this forum and i'd just like to pick peoples brains for an issue i have been having to see what others have to say.

From what i can gather i have very strong INFJ traits which i assume many on this forum would take to be a good thing. However from personal experience i have found this not to be true.

Maybe this won't ring any bells for others, but i will try anyhow. My recurring issue is the difficulties i have personally integrating into volunteering/workplaces/educational associations and to some degree "society".

My problem is somewhat complex, but the simplified version is that i basically dont agree well with office politics/personal games (and more generally) unnecessary bull from people.

Its causing a really big disturbance in my life, i find i move from activity to activity without making any tangible progress (either work or socially). I cant seem to find the right "niche" or even formula that works for me (as dumb as it probably sounds).


Im 29 now and although well educated havent reached stable employment. I do have OCD and depression but that is a bit beside the point because that isn't really the issue, my personality is. I just can't seem to see past the indifference and lack of caring many people have for one another.

I refuse to contribute or play along with "the games" people play which im well aware paints a target on my back. I dont undertand how such a high percentage of people can superficially look at each other without looking a bit deeper (despite having some measure of contempt for ever becoming and adult).

As far i see, money seems to be the cohesive glue that brings people together otherwise we all would be a very uncooperative lot and chaos would reign.

I dont know, i do have "some" tolerance for differences of opinion but it seems like you need a insane amount to get buy on this somewhat crazy planet. Im not sure, maybe i should join the game of oblivious (or corrupt) people so i can make my way little further.

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated. Thanks.

I experience the same thing but to a very lesser degree with people in my own age group, right now. And I too, have not made much progress at all and am thinking of going back to being a Prima Donna, of sorts, in my own field (Fine Arts) instead of a has-been artist just trying to "fit in" in order to get by.

I think that the old addage my Mum used to say "just ignore them" holds true IF AND ONLY IF you are taking positive steps for yourself in the opposite direction (away from "them") in order to feel more secure about who you are, what you are about, and what you can do in an excellent manner in this life. You already know you're never going to be like them. All that's needed is to complete the task of developing your life's work.

 

[Poetic Justice]

What is an INXX, specifically, and why on earth do people in England always seem to think the vast majority of people in this world are "lovely" ? You ought to meet my sister who's right outside Birmingham - but when you do I think you'll have a swift change of heart forthwith, unfortunately.

I assure you I wouldn't

Meeting a douche would not have any affect whatsoever on my opinion of any of the billions of people on this planet who weren't that specific douche

It's not as if I haven't met any nasty people. I have been bullied and victimised numerous times in my life. My brother is an extreme narcissist who set himself the task of destroying my life in every way he could think of.

I've suffered betrayal's from close friends on a frequesnt basis

This means nothing. I don't label people based on previous experiences with other people. I start a fresh with each new person. If they do something bad, i forgive them. If they take advantage of my good nature I take appropriate action to shut them down

An INXX is someone who doesn't know what type he is but is sure he is introverted and is sure he gets most of his info/beliefs etc from intuition

 

[middle1]

[MENTION=472]Poetic Justice[/MENTION] has some awesome advice.

Oooweee sometimes I can't stand people especially coworkers. Some days everything they do just irritates the shit out of me. We have disagreements but I have started to make a pack with myself: Start everyday brand spanking new, forgive and forget any wrongdoings done to me or apologize for the ones I have done. Just forget the past and start with a clean slate everyday, it makes my life so much easier and easier for others, I'm sure. Oh and quit being so judgemental.

 

[not sure]

[MENTION=472]Poetic Justice[/MENTION] has some awesome advice.

Oooweee sometimes I can't stand people especially coworkers. Some days everything they do just irritates the shit out of me. We have disagreements but I have started to make a pack with myself: Start everyday brand spanking new, forgive and forget any wrongdoings done to me or apologize for the ones I have done. Just forget the past and start with a clean slate everyday, it makes my life so much easier and easier for others, I'm sure. Oh and quit being so judgemental.

When you've mastered it, please teach me. By the way, what do you mean by sometimes?

 

[shafishstix]

Its kinda difficult to not be judgemental when a high percentage of the time that is all you are receiving. I think if i were to put a percentage on my experiences i'd say that perhaps 70-80% of the people i encounter right now give mostly negative feedback (30-20% are ok, i do recognise that). Im not going out of my way to get these responses either, the way i conduct myself is usually neutral (kinda like wait to see how they respond before making any evaluation).

If people (such as in a workplace) become particularly tricky, i simply dont contribute at all on any kind of personal level (i withhold myself). I do the work to my upmost ability and leave the judgements to them. My judgements which i've stated at the beginning of this thread is something i never share with people (actually i really feel ive shared way too much here, but i thought it may be necessary).

The workplace that im currently at i know im not welcome in, despite that fact i am pushing on because the graphic design work im producing for them is at a level i really appreciate. Its a big office and in this particular circumstance i find that the environment starts positive or neutral and gradually turns negative towards me. It then leaves me wondering well what are you expecting from me? If you want to talk to me, then talk. Otherwise i'll just focus on the work as i always do. Its surprising how negative they get too, you know you expect a bit of cop from people but in some places (like this one) they go too far.

(By the way thanks for all the advice everyone)

 

[Gaze]

I think that the old addage my Mum used to say "just ignore them" holds true IF AND ONLY IF you are taking positive steps for yourself in the opposite direction (away from "them") in order to feel more secure about who you are, what you are about, and what you can do in an excellent manner in this life. You already know you're never going to be like them. All that's needed is to complete the task of developing your life's work.

Yep.