Pro-life or Pro-choice? | Page 14 | INFJ Forum

Pro-life or Pro-choice?

Discussion in 'News and Politics' started by AmeyT18, Jun 2, 2019.

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  1. April

    April Permanent Fixture

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    Oh my gosh Misty I'm so sorry for your losses. :(
     
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  2. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    Sensitive is the wrong word and shows a complete lack of understanding on your part.

    Protective, maybe. Sensitive, nah.

    Also it's entirely inappropriate to use the word sensitive as a pejorative, so that shows your character quite well.
     
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  3. Truth Eternity

    Truth Eternity Regular Poster

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    Yeah. I'm Pro life and agree with pro choice in such conditions. And I was adopted into a wonderful family alongside my brother, and my sister was adopted from different parents. Honestly the orphan argument is pretty stupid. And besides, rather a chance for a good life than immediate death. If you weren't raped or life on the line, there is no reason for abortion. Zero reason whatsoever. Doesn't matter what excuse you give.
     
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  4. Truth Eternity

    Truth Eternity Regular Poster

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    This is me, I agree.
     
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  5. Emanuel Goldstein

    Emanuel Goldstein Community Member

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    sensitive
    • adj.
      Capable of perceiving with a sense or senses.
    So your not sensitive?
     
  6. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    You are a sad man. Find something better to do.
     
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  7. JennyDaniella

    JennyDaniella Stargazer

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    :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy: lolololol
     
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  8. Emanuel Goldstein

    Emanuel Goldstein Community Member

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    I am a sad man... I agree with you... I will find something better to do... Thank you for that :)
     
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  9. Ifur

    Ifur Community Member

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    Don't disagree, but not everyone choose the route of higher spiritual pursuits as a possible alternative to the mundane.
    In the 12th century, and the dark ages was started being emtnioned around those times as well.
    Romans threw babies into the river, and it was either that or extremely dangerous procedures or infanticide.

    Life goes on, and there is such a thing as too many that can lead to war, starvation and inhumane life and conditions.
    Abortion is perfectly acceptable, and in many cases it is also pro life, depending on the definition.

    Pedophile preists and others that can afford moral high grounds that doesn't respect the realities of creation may think otherwise and be against it.
    Making what in many cases are absolute necessary criminal or illegal as a general and unjielding principle does not lead to a better society.
     
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  10. Infjente

    Infjente Community Member

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    Do you know how many bacteria is being killed every day from antibiotics alone? Quadrillions! All that waste of life, and all you think about is the questionable effect, highly priced meat, and that you will be fine!

    Like you said, you can always try to be a better person ... you better get to work! :flushed:
     
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  11. OP
    AmeyT18

    AmeyT18 Regular Poster

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    Why do u think its wrong? You NEED to ejaculate to allow your body to form new sperms so that they can develop into healthy baby.
    I am not fan of masturbation but I will say to ejaculate (frequency can be debated and from what I have read I can say once is week is enough) to remain healthy
     
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  12. Hostarius

    Hostarius Scooby Doo Villain of Fate

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    I didn't appreciate this insult aimed at @flower. I think you ought to apologise - having a 'debate' is no place for personal attacks. This isn't a war, it's a discussion - you're seeking synthesis not victory.

    I wish I had the time to compile all the great and baffling quotes in this thread :tearsofjoy:

    Great point, Wy.

    What?

    The 12th century wasn't the 'Dark Ages'. The 'Renaissance of the Twelfth Century' is a pretty big deal, even if Haskins (the originator of the concept) originally intended it as an attack on Burckhardt (the originator of the idea of a 'Renaissance' in the 16th century).

    What are you claiming about the 12th century here?
     
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  13. Ifur

    Ifur Community Member

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    So to cite two things relevant for the context:

    Dark Ages have warying meanings depending on the perspective, that the Vatican started talking about "Dark Age" in 1330 is in many ways hilarious compared to Renessaince and Enlightenment.
    This reinforces an historic delusional thinking from the confines of gold plated and decorates houses and places of extreme wealth.

    Middle ages are considered between 5th and 15th century -- this is a time period where language was either already dead, or the death of the language was started.
    This involves, Latin, Koine Greek, Gothic, and the short life of Old High German and the Norse languages, not to forget Celtic and a whole range of other languages in Europe.

    Roman women threw infants into the river in broad day light in the 12th centiry, and the Vatican started talking about post-Roman times as dark in the 1330's.
     
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  14. Ifur

    Ifur Community Member

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    How christianity introduced morals, and that abortion is bad compared to the good old days of throwing infants into the river during daylight is borderline insane.
    Well as long as they are paying for without sawing of the branch they are sitting on.
     
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  15. Hostarius

    Hostarius Scooby Doo Villain of Fate

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    Well modern historians certainly wouldn't consider the twelfth century a 'dark age'. It's the age of 'fresh and vigorous life' in Haskins' words, with the rise of towns, the universities, Gothic architecture, a religious revival and the flourishing of poetry, lyric and music. The basic fact is, too, that the usual qualification for a 'dark age' - the lack of surviving records - certainly doesn't qualify the twelfth century; one look at the Patrologia Latina will tell you what a time it was for literate production.

    If anything we would tend to limit the 'dark ages' to the 'Migration Period' and end it with the last of the Viking raids in the early eleventh century.

    I wouldn't agree with this. The twelfth century is a relative high point for the quality of Latin - rhetoric, especially, if you read Bernard of Clairvaux, is superior to what followed in the thirteenth even if it falls short of Cicero.

    I should think it goes without saying that the Church didn't sanction that, lol. Church teaching has always been pretty consistent when it came to abortion. In any case, I'm pretty sure that those stories are the exaggerations of excitable churchmen.

    You keep saying 'the Vatican', though I don't know where you're getting this from. First of all Renaissance humanism and the revival of admiration for the ancients wasn't particularly associated with the Church, and secondly the papacy was based in Avignon in the 1330s, not 'the Vatican'.
     
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  16. Ifur

    Ifur Community Member

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    Edit: Was an oversight not to comment on revival of Gothic architecture as something positive. Not only is this a dead European culture and language originating in parts of Scandinavia and related to perhaps other cultures with similar names. The only thing from the Gothic language that has survived is a translation of the bible. Just don't, just stop arguing that point. And we still don't know who the Huns where, perhaps they were from Mongolia? Nobody knows, it's that dark.

    For added hilarity, a cornerstone in freemasonry is these gothic texts likely written by madmen talking about Loke and creation. Or well, "gothic" is alluded to all over the place for them, but still; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Bible suspected to have been written by someone following Arianism, which was banned in central Europe as it was the Shield of Trinity that won that argument, which involves head librarians of Alexandria.

    I think this essentually decimated the Gothic.

    There is medieavel times and there is burning of books from an academic point of view, but one can also discuss wealth of culture and arts in addition to fundamental moral principles as freedom of thought and expression.
    That books written in "holy languages" tending to be burned less often isn't the point here now, is it?

    Not really, depends on whether you are arguing quality or quantity here, it marks the high point where everything was translated into Latin from Greek for example.
    It's also the time in history where greek philosophy was translated into German from LATIN?!.
    Where now almost a 1000 years later, Logic as the same meaning in English and German as it had prior to this translation.
    As Logos was introduced as a concept and explained as meaning reason, where German and Norse has these concepts from before.
    Actually, if you want to have fun with language and concepts, Socrates and Loki seem to have been used as literary devices in much the same way, circumstance, histroic and cultural references set aside.

    The church necessitated it for banning all exception and ways to deal with the problem in acceptable manners, so they seem to have thrown them into rivers in protest.
    "Exposing the infant to nature and the environment before first food seem to be common in al cultures, all over the world in all time."
     
    #276 Ifur, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  17. Hostarius

    Hostarius Scooby Doo Villain of Fate

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    Book burnings were more a feature of the 15th/16th century 'Renaissance' than the twelfth, for example Savonarola's 'bonfires of the vanities', and these were mostly non-religious texts like poetry (much despised). In the twelfth, books were under more institutional than private control and so even if you wanted to organise a book burning, it'd be pretty fucking hard.

    All I'm saying is that it's inaccurate to refer to the twelfth century as a 'dark age', and everything else is just conjecture.

    I'm arguing both quality and quantity. What do you mean 'not really' lmao?? The 'Renaissance of the Twelfth Century' is an actual thing, a vibrant historiographical field in its own right because of the volume and quality of production - I'm trying to instruct here, it's not even up for debate, it's historical consensus.

    What? I don't know what you're referring to.

    OK I suppose that's fine, but it wasn't Church teaching so your argument for their hypocrisy is baseless.


    Anyway, you're making my brain hurt. I should explain: I'm a historian of the twelfth century, and I simply intended to point out that my period is not the 'dark age' you painted it as, in any modern opinion (save I suppose in terms of Bissonian 'lordship', &c.).
     
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  18. Ifur

    Ifur Community Member

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    I don't speak Latin, and the 12th century was the beginning of a dark age in Northern Europe that started much earlier, perhaps with the Gothic.
    So there are "Golden periods" for many parts of Europe between 5th and 15th century, feudalism if nothing else gives wealth for someone occasionally.

    The Romans invaded the North and created a mess, scholars and missionaries introduced toxic ideas from the magical places of Alexandria and the Great cities with all the answers to the Gothic that decided to rescue the south. Medieval Age in a few sentences.
     
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  19. Hostarius

    Hostarius Scooby Doo Villain of Fate

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    Are you sure? Scandinavian power waned after the end of the Viking Age, but I'm not sure how you could describe it as a 'dark age' more generally.
     
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  20. Ifur

    Ifur Community Member

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    By banning abortiona and forcing excessive population growth in a part of the world that couldn't support it lead to centuries of poverty.
    This was a gradual process, but the end of the viking age and all powerful bishops that married children started around 10th-13th centuries.

    It includes this for example:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Crusade

    Which also lead to the first large civil war in Scandinavia.

    Prior to that, we have this guy:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Hardrada

    The worst of the worst tended to be christian Vikings, most likely Arianism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_the_Red
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Bloodaxe

    Prior to misionaries fighting with weapons for their particular reformist movement, like Arianism versus:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

    Notice here the gothic, visgothic in spain and so on choosing the nontrinitarian Arianism, where also Lutheran in many ways is the desperate emotional positivism clinging to logic under the threat of being forced to self-criticise.

    Adding a lot of links here now, but there are reasons to believe that significant problems stem from specific cults and fanatics concerning these things. Where even Norse mythos, and all others dealing with a trinity of sorts, with freedom of religion, and here we have something very curious about certain creeds as they largely abstract away from names. With the exception of "jesus / zeus?" and using "God" rather than "Deus and Dei".

    I'm now presenting ideas not that much in conflict between arguments made within the context of Zorostranism -- give me your bible and I'll tear out and fix it like Summer Glau in Firefly.

     
    #280 Ifur, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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