Personality test identifies people ‘born to make money’? Read more: http://digitaljo

[say what]

The famous Myers and Briggs tests have been benchmarks for a long time. Now, they’re said to define income expectations. This is a particularly interesting story, and to say that it’s controversial would be an extreme understatement.

Many top-tier companies ask potential candidates to take the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator [MBTI] as part of the process to determine their ideal candidate; but the test's professional influence doesn't necessarily stop there.

A recent report suggests certain personality types are predisposed to earning higher salaries compared to their corporate peers.

…Jonathan Bollag, operator of Career Assessment Site, drilled down further to identify broader patterns relating to these types; such as gender ratios, which type had higher levels of education, and, perhaps most interestingly, which was likely to make the most money.

You can see the Career Assessment Site graphic for yourself, and determine whether or not they've created a nice picture, or found a fundamental truth.

If you’re already hearing the screams from the psychological analysis community, you’re quite right. Myers and Briggs tests aren’t universally accepted in some quarters, in fact there is some distinct opposition to them.

I’ve done the Myers and Briggs tests several times, and always got the same result — I’m an INTJ. Interestingly, unlike just about every other personality test I’d ever done, the results are not only consistent, but accurate. I think the main reason is that the test is highly logical, which encouraged me to do the test not only honestly but with some genuine interest.

From the Myers and Briggs website:

The purpose of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® (MBTI®) personality inventory is to make the theory of psychological types described by C. G. Jung understandable and useful in people’s lives. The essence of the theory is that much seemingly random variation in the behavior is actually quite orderly and consistent, being due to basic differences in the ways individuals prefer to use their perception and judgment.

"Perception involves all the ways of becoming aware of things, people, happenings, or ideas. Judgment involves all the ways of coming to conclusions about what has been perceived. If people differ systematically in what they perceive and in how they reach conclusions, then it is only reasonable for them to differ correspondingly in their interests, reactions, values, motivations, and skills."

I don’t find that a particularly demanding premise. Others, however do:

...psychologist David J. Pittenger challenges claims that the MBTI is a useful tool to gauge an individual's likely success within any given profession, citing a lack of empirical evidence. While his review was published before the release of Jonathan Bollag's data, he argues that other factors should be taken into account when assessing a candidate's true capabilities.

It’s unfortunate that Pittenger chose to use the word “empirical.” To say that the test, which is being conducted literally millions of times, lacks experimental evidence is to put it mildly slightly out of whack with the facts. The acceptance of the Myers and Briggs test on such a vast scale is very largely due to the acceptance by test subjects, to start with. Few people would tolerate a test which produced manifestly wrong results.

Professional acceptance is also apparently based on general acknowledgement of the validity of the basic principles of the Myers and Briggs tests. That’s critical, because of the basis of testing is wrong, the tests themselves couldn’t stand scrutiny, certainly not for over 60 years.

Pittenger also comments that putting people into 16 generic categories is limiting. There is a grain of truth to this comment, because it is quite likely that the original idea has been somewhat oversimplified.

I discovered during my testing that while my overall category was consistent, I was close to being another type, ENTJ, by a mere couple of points on two occasions. This raises the question as to whether or not the classifications shouldn’t be put into relative bandwidths allowing for these close approximations for both characteristics.

In the last test, I was literally 49 – 51 for "E" and "I" respectively. That’s cutting it pretty fine, by any standards.

The doubt, however, doesn’t outweigh the basic thrust of the Myers and Briggs tests. The bandwidth scenario would simply refine the results, not alter them.

Pittenger does make one confronting statement which needs to be addressed:

“There is no evidence to show a positive relation between MBTI type and success within an occupation. That is, there is nothing to show that ESFPs are better or worse salespeople than INTJs are,” he writes.

There is certainly a need for independent corroboration of this research. At this point, Bollag's findings should be viewed as a lead to further research, not a final word on the subject. I would also suggest, somewhat grimly through professionally clenched teeth, that a better basis for analysis of income earning capacity for different types of personalities might include information like what the person does for a living, and other possibly relevant metrics.

If this information could be turned into something workable and reliable, it could provide a lot of information about the entire psychological profile of the society.

Are people excluded from success simply because of their personalities?

Are people economically and materially penalised, simply for being themselves?

Why do proven morons make more money than intelligent people?

Why do intelligent people work for obnoxious jerks?

The ongoing murder mystery of human society may be much easier to analyse than anyone has ever believed.

If you haven’t done the Myers and Briggs tests, I’d suggest that you investigate for yourself and form your own opinion. I found the test particularly interesting, starting from a point of almost 100 percent skepticism.

Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/tech/science/op-ed-personality-test-identifies-people-born-to-make-money/article/366670#ixzz2t1UGbifV

 

[Gaze]

Yeah, i've also gotten borderline results. Sometimes, I'm still not sure I'm INFP or INFJ. When INFJs on the board talk about "INFJ" habits, I see myself in their descriptions.

 

[muir]

Very interesting!

Some of us here have been discussing how there has been an 'extrovert ideal' created in our culture which then encourages people to see introversion as an abnormality; we've also spoken about psychometric testing and how this is used by corporations to descriminate against certain people (ie they are looking to hire the least sensitive and most aggressive people)

You can often hear extroverts saying that introverts should be more like them...an extrovert did that on this forum recently lol. Extroverts will even go onto forums set up for introverts and tell the introverts that there is something wrong with them and that they should be more like extroverts! Incredible. I bet if you asked them though they would deny that they are a prejudiced person

The BBC made a programme a while back about personality types in business and found that the people at the top were often: extroverted, risk taking and aggressive

Kinda makes a lot of sense about how the banking industry managed to get itself into such a situation, which we are all paying for now!

I think there are some clear indicators emerging from all this

Aggressive risk takers are a LIABILITY. Do we really want to live in a system where aggressive risk takers make the rules and call the shots?

I think the insights that can come from the research you have posted here should help inform peoples ideas of how our society should be structured. The current system allows too much power to the power hungry

Basically the graph says that we have 'The Director' (ENTJ) described as being: 'Controlling and intimidating, impulsive and appearing angry' who earns the most money and seeing as money is power in our society that gives them a lot of power

So at the top of the tree is the Director (ENTJ)

Next we have The Manager (ESTJ) described as being: bad at expressing their feelings, blunt and insensitive and likes to always be right. They are described as being 'loyal' (loyal to their Director no doubt!)

There has been research to show that people don't just blindly follow orders but that they follow orders and will even creatively build on them if they buy into the leadership of the person directing them or their agenda:

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/yo...aslam-on-what-the-prison-experiment-got-wrong

 

[54tjsioU]

That is extremely interesting and I think if it's done correctly it will carry a lot of merit however only to the people who agree with MBTI in the first place and even then a smaller group from there. People don't like hearing that something about them is 'wrong' or that they'll get less out of life because of who they are.

[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION] makes a great point in "Why do intelligent people work for obnoxious jerks?" where my dad is extremely intelligent however he feels a need to follow all the rules. May be a ISTJ, he's a very happy little idiot though and a great man. Watching his thought process is pretty impressive and extremely aggravating lol.

And [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION], I think that, well... the description of an INFJ is that we have moments of Extroverted thinking which I do for sure and that the other side of that I have quite a few Introverted friends who just hanging out with them is like pulling teeth. I don't know if it's that society has beat them down with labels of ADD and socially retarded (one was just diagnosed with aspergers and I know that's complete bull shit for more than one reason) regardless of both I still have to be 100% giving of when they want to hang out and what they're comfortable with. So with it being that extremely draining for me -one person- just to be in their immediate vicinity I don't see how either one of them would be successful as the leader of many in a working situation as they have trouble with that too.

I don't know, these kinds of things fascinate me though

 

[ThomasJ79]

Obtaining wealth is a game. Those that take it seriously are willing to do whatever it takes to obtain it. They find their own self worth tied up into their wealth or their attainment of it. Not only that, but they try really hard to make people feel guilty or lazy or call them "dependent" when they don't care about playing the game, or if their heart isn't in the game. Kind of like gymn class in high school when you were forced to play a sport you didn't like and the most competitive would slam the the ball in your face or laugh at you for sucking, which didn't happen to me, but I saw it happen to others. The person obviously wasn't into playing the game. I know that when I played sports I was rather uncompetitive because I didn't care so much about winning or losing as it was about having fun with my friends. We live in this culture that pushes people into a state of constant activity and productivity and winning and all for what? You can't take any of your wealth to your grave. I feel sorry for all of those who are chasing wealth and putting aside spending time with loved ones and trying to make loving connections with people around them. What they will find at the end of their life is that they should've spent more time with those they loved. Those loved ones, probably spent a good chunk off their life waiting for them to come around and see the real values in life, values worth pursuing. I have rarely read stories about people approaching the end of their life wishing that they worked harder to become rich, but I've read countless stories where people wished they could go back to be at their daughter's dance recital or tuck them in at night. When I took humanities in college nearly a decade ago, my professor talked of the nature of young men and they spend the first half of their life pursuing wealth and the second half finding meaning. Right then I decided that was silly, why not just look for meaning right away.

 

[54tjsioU]

Obtaining wealth is a game. Those that take it seriously are willing to do whatever it takes to obtain it. They find their own self worth tied up into their wealth or their attainment of it. Not only that, but they try really hard to make people feel guilty or lazy or call them "dependent" when they don't care about playing the game, or if their heart isn't in the game. Kind of like gymn class in high school when you were forced to play a sport you didn't like and the most competitive would slam the the ball in your face or laugh at you for sucking, which didn't happen to me, but I saw it happen to others. The person obviously wasn't into playing the game. I know that when I played sports I was rather uncompetitive because I didn't care so much about winning or losing as it was about having fun with my friends. We live in this culture that pushes people into a state of constant activity and productivity and winning and all for what? You can't take any of your wealth to your grave. I feel sorry for all of those who are chasing wealth and putting aside spending time with loved ones and trying to make loving connections with people around them. What they will find at the end of their life is that they should've spent more time with those they loved. Those loved ones, probably spent a good chunk off their life waiting for them to come around and see the real values in life, values worth pursuing. I have rarely read stories about people approaching the end of their life wishing that they worked harder to become rich, but I've read countless stories where people wished they could go back to be at their daughter's dance recital or tuck them in at night. When I took humanities in college nearly a decade ago, my professor talked of the nature of young men and they spend the first half of their life pursuing wealth and the second half finding meaning. Right then I decided that was silly, why not just look for meaning right away.

Completely off topic but was anyone else really great in dodge ball at dodging the ball? I was always the last one standing, and then I lost cause I suck at throwing, lol... was anyone else great at dodging?

 

[ThomasJ79]

Completely off topic but was anyone else really great in dodge ball at dodging the ball? I was always the last one standing, and then I lost cause I suck at throwing, lol... was anyone else great at dodging?

I was great at dodging too

 

[Solongo]

Are people excluded from success simply because of their personalities?

- Depends on how you define success. Those who exclude themselves from "success" do it willingly not because they were a different personality. However; if your work environment does not cater to your personality most of the time than it will be harder to reach one's goals and achieve status - as most people define success with money, reputation and status from a certain career.

Are people economically and materially penalised, simply for being themselves?

Of course. This will be present in every work environment; whether you work in a top notch law firm or if you work at mcdonalds. This can lead to the debate of becoming successful doing what you love and setting your own rules; versus working for somebody and trying to achieve success and recognition following their rules. As long as a man or a woman is not self governing and give up their own ability to make decisions and set their own rules; they will always be subject to economic and material penalizing because you are playing by somebody else's rules. Any time you play by others rule you will have to give up a part of your consciousness that only caters to you.

Why do proven morons make more money than intelligent people?

It's simple - the morons set their goal and priority toward money above all else. Also those "morons" have a higher self belief that they deserve more financial gain and does not feel guilty about it. Anybody can shift to this mindset if they wish - but most people don't earn a lot of money because they don't believe they deserve it.

Why do intelligent people work for obnoxious jerks?

Because we live in a world where intelligent people are full of doubt while the stupid ones are full of confidence. It also proves that you do not need "intelligence" to be successful. Self belief, ambition and perseverance will get you farther than having a high IQ.



If you haven’t done the Myers and Briggs tests, I’d suggest that you investigate for yourself and form your own opinion. I found the test particularly interesting, starting from a point of almost 100 percent skepticism.

Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/tech/science/op-ed-personality-test-identifies-people-born-to-make-money/article/366670#ixzz2t1UGbifV

I don't believe personality has everything to do with earning more money. Certain functions can be seen as high earning depending on the industry you work for; but that still gives the idea of success a very narrow definition. T and J functions can make a lot of money in IT industries while E and P functions can bring in money from sales and marketing. MBTI is too narrow to define "success" based on personality imho.

 

[say what]

I should have been more clear that I didn't write this- I just copy and pasted the article!

 

[say what]

Very interesting!

Some of us here have been discussing how there has been an 'extrovert ideal' created in our culture which then encourages people to see introversion as an abnormality; we've also spoken about psychometric testing and how this is used by corporations to descriminate against certain people (ie they are looking to hire the least sensitive and most aggressive people)

You can often hear extroverts saying that introverts should be more like them...an extrovert did that on this forum recently lol. Extroverts will even go onto forums set up for introverts and tell the introverts that there is something wrong with them and that they should be more like extroverts! Incredible. I bet if you asked them though they would deny that they are a prejudiced person

The BBC made a programme a while back about personality types in business and found that the people at the top were often: extroverted, risk taking and aggressive

Kinda makes a lot of sense about how the banking industry managed to get itself into such a situation, which we are all paying for now!

I think there are some clear indicators emerging from all this

Aggressive risk takers are a LIABILITY. Do we really want to live in a system where aggressive risk takers make the rules and call the shots?

I think the insights that can come from the research you have posted here should help inform peoples ideas of how our society should be structured. The current system allows too much power to the power hungry

Basically the graph says that we have 'The Director' (ENTJ) described as being: 'Controlling and intimidating, impulsive and appearing angry' who earns the most money and seeing as money is power in our society that gives them a lot of power

So at the top of the tree is the Director (ENTJ)

Next we have The Manager (ESTJ) described as being: bad at expressing their feelings, blunt and insensitive and likes to always be right. They are described as being 'loyal' (loyal to their Director no doubt!)

There has been research to show that people don't just blindly follow orders but that they follow orders and will even creatively build on them if they buy into the leadership of the person directing them or their agenda:

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/yo...aslam-on-what-the-prison-experiment-got-wrong

I completely agree that there's a negative culture around being an introvert. Extroverts are often more valued, and are seen as what 'we' [introverts] should strive to be. Interestingly enough, I'm preparing for a reflection and contemplative practice workshop, and I was reading an article this morning on the benefits of taking time to think in corporate positions. With the integration of mindfulness into more work places, i wonder if introverts will be valued a bit more- as they bring so many strengths to their job.

Also, while we're told to be extroverts, I wonder who's really telling us- who are the people that really control the world? muahaha! I think it's the introverts!

 

[say what]

When they refer to the Myers Briggs Test, do they mean the test that has to be administered under the supervision of a certified MBTI administrator? Or the test where you simply answer questions about yourself (the one you can take online)?

This is a really great question! I've taken them for a job placement once, and it was just a test- which really questions the reliability of the score! As [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] said, the whole metrics around MBTI is so controversial! Not to mention there isn't a gold standard tool for the test- which means all these different versions are likely measuring different constructs.

So many people are mistyped by it! It's obvious because they flood MBTI forums, and also, if you're someone who is pretty knowledgeable about MBTI, when people you know take the test you can tell when their results are off. Most of my friends who have taken the MBTI test got inaccurate results, but they usually don't realize it because they don't know anything about MBTI. To them it's just a bunch of arbitrary personality profiles. And most of the profiles don't even go into detail about the cognitive functions, they just make generalizations about behavior. If one profile seems generally close enough, the layperson won't question it. Or if the result they get sounds flattering, they believe it's accurate because they want to.

I completely agree! To be honest, i don't know if I'm really INFJ! haha! But what's scary is that even though I know that there's huge issues with credibility/reliability/validity - if employers are actually using it as a screening tool, that would be scary! SO SCARY!! haha

I wish the MBTI test would just die already because it only serves to mislead most people by oversimplifying type theory and inaccurately typing them. And those who realize that the test is inaccurate and its foundation arbitrary– they believe that it is an accurate representation of type theory, so they use that to discredit it. They write off cognitive type theory because they conflate it with the arbitrary MBTI test. So... the test really does no good. It just robs cognitive type theory of its legitimacy. I've had to argue with people just to get them to take me seriously when I bring up MBTI, because their impression of it was based on the test. They see it as trying to fit people into arbitrary, limiting categories, when in reality there is infinite room for individuation within the complex workings of cognitive functions.

I think it's all in how it's applied. I think MBTI can be a great way for someone to gain interest in understanding themselves and their actions, as well as others. But with so many of these tests - like IQ - you have to understand their limitations and what this means when applying the outcomes in the real world!

 

[say what]

That is extremely interesting and I think if it's done correctly it will carry a lot of merit however only to the people who agree with MBTI in the first place and even then a smaller group from there. People don't like hearing that something about them is 'wrong' or that they'll get less out of life because of who they are.

[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION] makes a great point in "Why do intelligent people work for obnoxious jerks?" where my dad is extremely intelligent however he feels a need to follow all the rules. May be a ISTJ, he's a very happy little idiot though and a great man. Watching his thought process is pretty impressive and extremely aggravating lol.

And [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION], I think that, well... the description of an INFJ is that we have moments of Extroverted thinking which I do for sure and that the other side of that I have quite a few Introverted friends who just hanging out with them is like pulling teeth. I don't know if it's that society has beat them down with labels of ADD and socially retarded (one was just diagnosed with aspergers and I know that's complete bull shit for more than one reason) regardless of both I still have to be 100% giving of when they want to hang out and what they're comfortable with. So with it being that extremely draining for me -one person- just to be in their immediate vicinity I don't see how either one of them would be successful as the leader of many in a working situation as they have trouble with that too.

I don't know, these kinds of things fascinate me though

I'm on the fence about it's use in the employment world. I mean, how effective would it be to have a company full of the same MBTI? Would that even be functional!? Haha! I can see how it might have value when it's coupled with a variety of other things. I have a friend right now going through a bunch of situational testing to see if she can get a promotion. It's a bunch of hooie, but, if applied with MBTI and social intelligence scores, perhaps it would give a good understanding of someone's ability to be a leader.

 

[say what]

Obtaining wealth is a game. Those that take it seriously are willing to do whatever it takes to obtain it. They find their own self worth tied up into their wealth or their attainment of it. Not only that, but they try really hard to make people feel guilty or lazy or call them "dependent" when they don't care about playing the game, or if their heart isn't in the game. Kind of like gymn class in high school when you were forced to play a sport you didn't like and the most competitive would slam the the ball in your face or laugh at you for sucking, which didn't happen to me, but I saw it happen to others. The person obviously wasn't into playing the game. I know that when I played sports I was rather uncompetitive because I didn't care so much about winning or losing as it was about having fun with my friends. We live in this culture that pushes people into a state of constant activity and productivity and winning and all for what? You can't take any of your wealth to your grave. I feel sorry for all of those who are chasing wealth and putting aside spending time with loved ones and trying to make loving connections with people around them. What they will find at the end of their life is that they should've spent more time with those they loved. Those loved ones, probably spent a good chunk off their life waiting for them to come around and see the real values in life, values worth pursuing. I have rarely read stories about people approaching the end of their life wishing that they worked harder to become rich, but I've read countless stories where people wished they could go back to be at their daughter's dance recital or tuck them in at night. When I took humanities in college nearly a decade ago, my professor talked of the nature of young men and they spend the first half of their life pursuing wealth and the second half finding meaning. Right then I decided that was silly, why not just look for meaning right away.

So beautifully put!

I do think that wealth is far more than MBTI..it takes motivation, innovation and luck! Whether it's being born into a family of wealth, or having luck on your side to progress you further in your career. I do think too much emphasis is placed on wealth, and it being a marker of both success and happiness. But I wonder if this goes back to the culture around introverts and what's valued in society...

 

[say what]

I don't believe personality has everything to do with earning more money. Certain functions can be seen as high earning depending on the industry you work for; but that still gives the idea of success a very narrow definition. T and J functions can make a lot of money in IT industries while E and P functions can bring in money from sales and marketing. MBTI is too narrow to define "success" based on personality imho.

I completely agree! It's more than personality!

What do you think about using MBTI to limit an individual's chance to progress in their career? I think it would be scary if employers were using MBTI to determine who moved up in the corporate ladder.

 

[54tjsioU]

I'm on the fence about it's use in the employment world. I mean, how effective would it be to have a company full of the same MBTI? Would that even be functional!? Haha! I can see how it might have value when it's coupled with a variety of other things. I have a friend right now going through a bunch of situational testing to see if she can get a promotion. It's a bunch of hooie, but, if applied with MBTI and social intelligence scores, perhaps it would give a good understanding of someone's ability to be a leader.

I don't think it would be AS functional if everyone had the same MBTI, but then again I don't know... we all play off of each other. The thing that is extremely interesting for me to watch right now and be thrown into as well is just the HUGE divide between certain people. I'm thinking it's the F vs the T but also S vs N is pretty crazy, though mostly hurt feelings than anything else... I have a friend that I have been friends on and off with since high school, and by on and off I mean we get in a huge fight every time and I need to get the hell away from him. I am positive he's a T and his confidence is fairly above average while mine is extremely high so when we get into a fight it's devastated to the point where we need to stay away from each other for months if not years. He values my opinion a lot, which has always been extremely weird to me though now I am figuring out why.. but someone who thinks the way that I do, he wouldn't have to deal with that in his line of work. If he did it would be very few people who thought slightly like I do in the same office. And I think that's with a lot of jobs. In sciences you see more Thinkers, in schools or jobs where you have to connect to people on an emotional level you see more Feelers, at the least the Intuition trait.

There is this show on TBS called, and I don't know if anyone on this thread gets this as I just remembered we all live in different areas of the world lol.. it's called "King of the Nerds" and its a reality TV show about nerds, people who are extremely smart but were socially inept for whatever reason growing up, and it is really amazing for me cause I'll watch and I'll see just the clearest differences in how these people think. More so because they're all playing games and challenges that they'll approach the way they normal do and they'll lose to someone who's decided to take a different rout. It's extremely fascinating... I was watching it with him and he just went on about, "This has to be rigged, I don't believe this." lol...

It's just really interesting. I think people who have the same certain functions would be ideal for working together but the same MBTI all around, yeah, that would probably be disastrous lol. That being said, I wonder how many politicians have the same MBTI..??

 

[muir]

I completely agree that there's a negative culture around being an introvert. Extroverts are often more valued, and are seen as what 'we' [introverts] should strive to be. Interestingly enough, I'm preparing for a reflection and contemplative practice workshop, and I was reading an article this morning on the benefits of taking time to think in corporate positions. With the integration of mindfulness into more work places, i wonder if introverts will be valued a bit more- as they bring so many strengths to their job.

Also, while we're told to be extroverts, I wonder who's really telling us- who are the people that really control the world? muahaha! I think it's the introverts!

I think the guys at the top are not on the MBTI scale...i think they are in the realms of pathology

I think the 'director' and the 'manager' types are just useful idiots used by the manipulators to act as middle management

The guys at the top are not simply aggressive they are homicidal....on a grand scale. I think when people get to that stage then MBTI doesn't count anymore
@Jimmers is right its all a game and the question is do we want to play that game in the first place?

What i've noticed looking into things on the macro level is that there are certain philosophies and ideologies at play that give an insight into the mindset of the people at the top and they are psychopathic

The corporate model is psychopathic and is a reflection of their mindset. They build all their structures in a pyramidal, coercive, hierarchical way reflecting their mindset. The secret societies they have created are the same.

They use psychometric testing in the corporate world in the same way they use the inititatory system in the secret society world: to vet people. They are looking for people like themselves who lack emotional empathy and they will promote those people up the chain. They have in effect built a network of psychopaths with a shared goal of maintaining their cohesion as a social group whilst parasiting off the rest of humanity

What this MBTI graph is showing is the lower levels of their control structure.....ie the more aggressive and insensitive MBTI types. But above these types there are people far far worse

They are making a chaotic world in their own image

 

[the]

May be a ISTJ, he's a very happy little idiot though ...

I guess the forum as devolved back to ISTJ hating. Tsk tsk.

 

[54tjsioU]

I guess the forum as devolved back to ISTJ hating. Tsk tsk.

Lol? I wasn't saying that ISTJ's are happy idiots as a whole. I said that he may be an ISTJ, regardless he is a very happy little idiot.? I don't know how I can rephrase that for you to not take offense? Maybe help me out in that, because I don't understand.

 

[La Sagna]

I do think there could be a corelation between MBTI types and how much money is earned on average, but like every other statistic, it is just a general reflection of the average of the people they used as samples. Maybe on average ENTJs and ESTJs make more money than the other types but there are no doubt many of these two types who make less than the average of all the other groups. Just like on average men make more than women but I know lots of couples where she makes more than he does.

I'm not sure that I know an ENTJ but I have a good friend who is an ESTJ and he is one of the smartest, most capable people I know and he is also one of the most trustworthy. He is a self-employed contractor and soccer-dad and I doubt very much that he makes loads of money. He could make a lot more if he wanted to but having a flexible schedule to be there for his boys seems to be more important to him. No doubt other ESTJs have different priorities and make more money than he does, and many people of other types who don't have kids and are more career-driven probably make more than he does.

I don't see a problem overall in companies using MBTI as a tool because it is probably no more unreliable than opinions shaped during interviews or reading of a resume that can be manipulated or can even include false information. Who knows what types that companies are looking for anyways? We make assumptions but no doubt in some instances introverts would be considered an asset because they would be more likely to quietly do their work rather than having the need to chat it up with the other employees. Of course sales is an area where you want extroverts but I'm pretty sure there aren't that many introverts fighting to get those sales jobs. I have to do some sales for my business and I hate it and would be happy to give that job to an extrovert.

It's funny I don't really buy into the idea that the pressure is always on introverts to be more extroverted. It seems to me that it is us introverts who are more self-reflective who think about these things and feel like we don't 'fit in' and that extroverts are just busy being social butterflies and as long as they have other extroverts to be with they don't really care if there's a whole bunch of us who aren't like them. The problem comes in when there is a close relationship between two opposites but I think the pressure goes both ways, the extrovert wanting the introvert to be more sociable and the introvert wanting the extrovert to 'settle down' a bit and not be so 'on the go' or so 'loud'.

I think the world would be really boring if we were all the same type, or really dangerous and chaotic for certain types. I say 'Vive la différence!'

I have no problem whatsoever if other MBTI types make more money. I just want to be able to make enough to support myself (and a little more for special treats) while doing something that I enjoy most of the time. Better yet I just wish for everyone to be able to earn a living and support their families without undue pressure and to be able to understand that happiness doesn't come from how many things you own. If you have those two things you are doing well.

 

[muir]

I do think there could be a corelation between MBTI types and how much money is earned on average, but like every other statistic, it is just a general reflection of the average of the people they used as samples. Maybe on average ENTJs and ESTJs make more money than the other types but there are no doubt many of these two types who make less than the average of all the other groups. Just like on average men make more than women but I know lots of couples where she makes more than he does.

I'm not sure that I know an ENTJ but I have a good friend who is an ESTJ and he is one of the smartest, most capable people I know and he is also one of the most trustworthy. He is a self-employed contractor and soccer-dad and I doubt very much that he makes loads of money. He could make a lot more if he wanted to but having a flexible schedule to be there for his boys seems to be more important to him. No doubt other ESTJs have different priorities and make more money than he does, and many people of other types who don't have kids and are more career-driven probably make more than he does.

No on is saying that all ESTJ's or all ENTJ's are bad...that's not what the study is showing. What the study IS showing is a pattern and frankly it makes a lot of sense

You only have to look at how the world is around us and listent to all the stories in this forum of people getting grief from their shitty bosses

We have allowed the creation of an aggressive and hierarchical system that grinds people down, perpetuates war and environmental damage and that doesn't give a hoot about peoples freedom, health or happiness

I don't see a problem overall in companies using MBTI as a tool because it is probably no more unreliable than opinions shaped during interviews or reading of a resume that can be manipulated or can even include false information. Who knows what types that companies are looking for anyways? We make assumptions but no doubt in some instances introverts would be considered an asset because they would be more likely to quietly do their work rather than having the need to chat it up with the other employees. Of course sales is an area where you want extroverts but I'm pretty sure there aren't that many introverts fighting to get those sales jobs. I have to do some sales for my business and I hate it and would be happy to give that job to an extrovert.

In order to fit the aggressive dog eat dog culture that capitalism enshrines it stands to reason that the agressive corporations would seek to hire aggressive people doesn't it?

Atr the moment the transnational corporations are trying to get countries to sign upto an agreement called the Trans Pacific Partnership Treaty which you probably won't have heard about through the mainstream media because they aren't reporting on it. It is an agreement that gives the corporations power over sovereign states.

The corporations are so aggressive that they are taking over from governments and people are still pussy footing around the issue of whether or not corporations hire aggressive poeple? Come on....

It's funny I don't really buy into the idea that the pressure is always on introverts to be more extroverted. It seems to me that it is us introverts who are more self-reflective who think about these things and feel like we don't 'fit in' and that extroverts are just busy being social butterflies and as long as they have other extroverts to be with they don't really care if there's a whole bunch of us who aren't like them. The problem comes in when there is a close relationship between two opposites but I think the pressure goes both ways, the extrovert wanting the introvert to be more sociable and the introvert wanting the extrovert to 'settle down' a bit and not be so 'on the go' or so 'loud'.

Stick around on the forum a bit longer and listen to some of the opinions put out there...you may be suprised! Particularly on any threads that are created to be a celebration of INFJ's

Also there is an extrovert ideal created in our society: Susan Cain author of a book on the etrovert ideal giving a TED talk on the power of introverts: http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts.html

I think the world would be really boring if we were all the same type, or really dangerous and chaotic for certain types. I say 'Vive la différence!'

No one is saying difference isn't good what we are saying is that prejudice isn't good

I have no problem whatsoever if other MBTI types make more money. I just want to be able to make enough to support myself (and a little more for special treats) while doing something that I enjoy most of the time. Better yet I just wish for everyone to be able to earn a living and support their families without undue pressure and to be able to understand that happiness doesn't come from how many things you own. If you have those two things you are doing well.

This will not be allowed under a system that lets the most aggressive and insensitive run amok because they will change the rules of the game so that they own everything and all the money and power and that is what we are seeing

There's a balance to be struck between being huggy and nice whilst not being a doormat

Our society is currently being treated as a doormat and i would argue that it is being enabled by the persecution of introverts who are often the most reflective people in our society

Here is a comedian who is also involved in theatre outlining the political aspect of how introversion has come under attack in order to create a more dog eat dog environment. He mentions Prime Minister Thatcher who was basically our ronald reagan (same political ideals)

[video=youtube;JDEZ2h41t0I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDEZ2h41t0I[/video]