Non- INFJ perspectives of INFJs via this forum | INFJ Forum

Non- INFJ perspectives of INFJs via this forum

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by David Nelson, Jun 10, 2022.

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  1. David Nelson

    David Nelson Permanent Fixture

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    I thought it would be interesting to hear what non-INFJs think about INFJs via their experience on this forum. Do they see common patterns or different types (mature, undeveloped, etc, etc,)...


     
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  2. aeon

    aeon Amoureux des Chatons
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    Inasmuch as they are human—albeit a remarkable group I have much fondness for—they are like everyone else. Which is to say, they are a paradox in that they all belong to a group, yet each and every is unique.

    Each with different gifts, skills, resources, situations, experiences, stories, and paths, all doing the best they can to meet their needs, figuring things out as they go.

    Yet I certainly see patterns, because that’s what Ne + Si does! :p

    None so gifted with the written word, or at least the sort of words and kind of ideas I like to read. Most have looked within themselves to a degree and a depth I have not witnessed in others. So simultaneously courageous, yet full of self-doubt. Most are private, but depending on their degree of need for connection, some choose to open themselves to others and the world in a way that might seem contrary to the general understanding of their type.

    Willing to live by their principles, even when it benefits them not, and in those rare times they willingly choose to violate them, their road to any real self-forgiveness is very long and difficult. They will hold themselves in psychological purgatory and limbo far longer than most would consider useful, but I trust they know their way.

    They care, but their way is quiet, and usually does not bring attention to their self. Ironically, some have thought them uncaring, but that was because the INFJ was caring for the person’s higher, noble self that had, to that point, gone unrecognized and unacknowledged. When they become aware another is in need, and they recognize they have something to offer, they can give of themselves in a way and to a degree found nowhere else.

    In my experience, those INFJs that are E5 will offer more paradoxical and unreconciled perspectives than any other type. They are comfortable to sit in the ambiguity, but then, unexpectedly, they reveal the golden thread that runs through it all, and a middle way is shown where before there was only haze.

    So many of them freely offer a largesse to others they are reluctant to give to themselves. It’s cliché to say they give advice they themselves do not/can not follow, because most everyone does that to some degree. But with the INFJ this is different, because their advice is other-focused and insightful, and never lazy or off the cuff. If they are willing to share their opinion, that is.

    This could be my imagination, but I get the sense that INFJs have a direct pathway as follows:

    witness or experience conflict (which they may not even be part of) → helplessly absorb energy from that conflict → internalize it as stress → later experience somatic disturbances and even illness

    Usually finds themselves lacking because of their ability to imagine potentials*, whereupon they turn the acuity of their perception and judgment on themselves. This can rise to a crisis level that is a mental-emotional self-flagellation, delivered without mercy.

    *not idle daydreaming in what-if style, but INFJ insight of the possible fused with actual step-by-step planning, micro-adjusted in real time...yes, they make that look easy, but it is still a high-resource activity.

    So focused on development and growth that they never take the moment to fully recognize, much less take pride in, their own accomplishments. Others that do won’t fully understand what it cost the INFJ to get there, so an INFJ can go unrecognized for a long time. They suffer from this, but rarely complain.

    This is hyperbole, but I’m trying to illustrate a point → INFJs love the whole of the world, and would save it if they could, but when it comes down to each and every person, taken in turn, the INFJ would be content to watch more than a few burn. (Which I find curious, because I am the opposite.)

    Witnessing them parent is amazing and beautiful to me. Because it is both a kind of something I didn’t get, as well as just the kind of something I would endeavor to give. True respect for the human being that is a child, unconditional acceptance, high standards by means of encouragement as opposed to pushing, and providing a safe space for each of them to bloom and become the people they actually are. Encourages their dreams. Works to help them realize their dreams. Asks them, does not tell them. Focus is engagement, not that which is punitive.

    The nature of INFJ intuition is such that they trust their own instincts, implicitly. This can be expressed as a stubbornness, or a dismissive attitude. And to their credit, they are often right! But this gift can paradoxically also be curse in that an INFJ can be hoodwinked by others with ill intent, and once done, the undoing is none too easy.

    My sense is that those INFJs who fully understand this potential in themselves are virtually immune to it, because they have a well-cultivated discipline for continual self-examination. They find a way to largely separate their ego from the usual rewards that come with thinking one is right. In this way, they remain open to the new, and can playfully, not personally, tell someone they are full of shit.

    A tendency to be trapped in their own head, but I suppose that’s the kettle calling the pot black. Seeing an INFJ freely enjoy the sensuous and sensual life would be reason for celebration and congratulation, were it not also reason to suspect they had gone off the rails, and were deep in their own shadow. For most people, watching TV and eating ice cream while curled or splayed on the couch in loungewear is just something you do. To see an INFJ do this is not cozy, or sweet, and to think so is to miss the reality—that INFJ is deeply in crisis, and is engaged in a ritual that begins a dark night of their soul. :p

    Best to (All of) You,
    Ian
     
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  3. OP
    David Nelson

    David Nelson Permanent Fixture

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    Wow Ian, what a long and detailed response. Seemed pretty accurate, nothing there I could really find to disagree with. Many thanks.
     
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  4. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access.

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    “Omg I thought I was alone in the world until I learned about MBTI and it was like I was reading about myself!!!!” (Insert stuff about “like minded ppl”)

    I think I even said that when I got here.

    It’s always interesting to see if the more vulnerable newbs are gonna go nuclear and doorslam the forum or if they can adapt to the milieu.

    It doesn’t appear to be the enclave of Jungian theory that it used to be. I know some folks miss that. My interest in typology is pretty superficial so I’m indifferent.
     
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  5. ErikAlberto

    ErikAlberto Community Member
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    Goodness, you’ve got some insight there.
     
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  6. dZpADTLrPmX4c

    dZpADTLrPmX4c Impermanent Fixture

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    Very well written and much apropos. Your summation reads like an online MBTI test result (not one of the crummy ones).

    My results only reliably type me as introverted <3
     
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  7. Krypton

    Krypton Permanent Fixture

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    I feel like, as it is in general with INFJs, we only get to see the tip of the iceberg most of the time. :p

    Some of them seem pretty normal from how they talk here, some have a few fixations that are less normal but still mostly seem normal. But I only passingly see their posts so...
     
  8. Matty

    Matty Permanent Fixture

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    On the negative side, INFJs seem morally hypocritical, holding others to standards, which they make absolutely no effort to hold themselves (Fe). When engaging thinking (inferior Ti), INFJs can be extremely childish engaging in petty semantics and absurd misapplication of logic; like arguing, "you said you wanted a cat, a lion is a cat, why don't you want a lion?"

    On the positive, INFJs can understand and engage with concepts and conjecture (Ni), and have an appreciation of aesthetics (Se).

    So I enjoy reading INFJ posts which engage the imagination or aesthetics, but intensely dislike posts dripping with moral censure or childish argumentation/rhetoric.The worst example I can think of, which combines both traits I dislike is the "Is it ok to mock the anti vax" thread. The threads I like reading are "what's your dream home", "where are things heading" type threads.
     
    #8 Matty, Jun 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  9. Wyote

    Wyote Istaqa
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    Most crappy threads aren't started by INFJs, like this one for example
     
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  10. dZpADTLrPmX4c

    dZpADTLrPmX4c Impermanent Fixture

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    I'd huggle you but suspect you'd rather not such a transgression of your personal space.
    Instead please accept my greetings and good will. I hope your day is going well.
     
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  11. John K

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    It's surprising how many people who claim to be Ni dominant seem to live in one of their judging functions. They miss such a lot that way. I often wonder why they do it - maybe some of us have never learnt to trust our intuition. It's very easy for friends, parents and teachers to reject and discourage it in a child, who then never learns to use it properly and who ends up trying to live in one of the other functions instead - primarily their tertiary.

    I suspect another reason is mis-typing, with some Fi and Ti dominant folks identifying as Ni incorrectly, but their inner rudder still pulling them firmly into their unacknowledged primary judging function.

    And all the time, outside all of this, the air is like a cold, sweet white wine, the sea has turned into a whispering indigo mystery, and on the horizon the setting sun has flamed the clouds with fire and vermillion that crown the mountain tops with glory.
     
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  12. Matty

    Matty Permanent Fixture

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    I don't think INFJs "live in their judging function", they just express it, because it's extroverted (Fe).

    The difference between judgers and perceivers is only about which functions are extroverted and which are introverted.

    Perceivers' dominant extroverted functions are always either sensing or intuition, whereas judgers'dominant extroverted functions are always either thinking or feeling.

    That just means perceivers come across primarily as either sensual (Se), or disorderly (Ne), while judgers come across as primarily orderly (Te), or moralistic (Fe).
     
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  13. aeon

    aeon Amoureux des Chatons
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    Brilliant, and so accurate for Ne, guilty as charged, lulz :p

    Plus remembering my ex-ESFP girlfriend, Se is spot on. :)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
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  14. Matty

    Matty Permanent Fixture

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    It's so weird reflecting on the internal (introverted) experiential differences between judgers and perceivers.

    My thoughts feel like instantaneously expanded flow charts, process trees, or possibility maps encompassing almost all causes and consequences of particular actions, events, concepts, etc, together with an intuition of the probability connected to each possibility. (All introverted intuition)

    Introverted thinking (Ti) seems like such a different subjective experience. I'm only guessing, but I imagine it as an ongoing process of construct upon construct, with constant consistency checking (logic checking).

    The difference seems like it could be as vast as someone looking over a detailed topography map noticing water flow paths across a continent, and someone else building a railroad track, constantly aligning new track with the the last part of the completed track.
     
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  15. aeon

    aeon Amoureux des Chatons
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    Which might explain why my INTP mother would lose her shit when presented with new information that she could not easily reconcile against her internal unified field theorem. Even being TiNe.

    Her Ne-dom boy in combo with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD probably was a handful at times. :p :(

    Sorry Mum,
    Ian
     
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  16. Matty

    Matty Permanent Fixture

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    An older friend of mine once commented, in respect of his relationship with his children, "I'm not trying to be their friend. They'll have dozens of friends in their lives. I'm being their father, of whom they'll only have one." I liked the sentiment, and it's converse seemed valuable to me: I don't think it's fair to appreciate one's parents on how compatible they are as friends, but on the environment they provided for one's development. I'm grateful for the very secure, unquestionable assurance of personal security (food, shelter, etc was unconditionally assured), the ability to learn and grow was protected (I always had help with access to education, libraries, school, friends, but also I was sheltered from harmful exposure to things like crime, immoral situations, and from secretive underhanded behaviour), and sympathy or love was pretty much guaranteed if I had difficulties from life or people.

    Parents are so awesome, especially in spite of personal incompatibilities.
     
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  17. John K

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    I agree with this, but I wasn’t talking about INFJs in general but what happens when things go wrong and dominant Ni users don’t use their Ni effectively. I see this when they spend a lot of energy living in their tertiary: INFJs overthink and express things rigidly and dogmatically, INTJs with the same issue express everything coated with an inflexible moral outlook. If we are using our Ni well, then we are always open to new ideas and new possibilities and our public facing judging function will reflect that inner openness. It shares that sort of orientation with the way we use sight which is non discriminatory in the same sort of way by analogy.
     
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  18. Matty

    Matty Permanent Fixture

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    Sharing one's introverted function content is intimate. It's not going to happen unless there's trust or anonymity.

    Wanting Ni dominants to share more of that, and less Te or Fe is about YOUR preferences, not theirs. It's exceptionally easier to adjust the priorities about one's preferences, than someone else's. So if you want something and aren't getting it, there's more options to deal with the situation than simply expecting or demanding others supply what you want.
     
  19. aeon

    aeon Amoureux des Chatons
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    Fair comment, but my mother concussed me many times, beat me to unconsciousness such that I lost bladder and bowel, regularly locked me in the closet for three days with no food, water, or loo...I’m pretty sure she wasn’t trying to be my friend.

    There were many good things too...but my ACE score is 7...I have forgiven, but I cannot forget (and wouldn't want to).

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
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  20. philostam

    philostam Permanent Fixture

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    I wish I could live in my perceiving function sometimes. I suppose I can when I am outside travelling or in good company. But as soon as the routine kicks in (i.e I am at home) I switch back.

    Ti can be quite heavy and destructive, but as a Ti user you don't even notice it. Prone to rumination and going round in circles (especially Ti-Si combo). Yes, consuming new info can help, but even that isn't always working. Fiction is probably the best option because it forces me to perceive/observe more than judge. It's such a calming and relaxing experience to just observe, I can even feel my body relax and soften.

    Are INFJs living in this mode? This I cannot tell. I hope they do. I have one living with me and she is much more relaxed and easy going than me, so I assume she is not judging so much. Will ask her. What's interesting is the difference in content we consume. I mostly consume educational content, something to "engage my brain". She prefers to watch lighter content, design stuff, gaming stuff, anime stuff etc. I almost never do this. It's even hard to get into fiction, but when I do, I almost never regret it.

    As a Ti dom, you have this constant "pressure" to improve, learn new things, grow. It's like having a very demanding father without a mother to tell you you are OK as you are. No time to relax and just consume, but paradoxically being in a constant Ti mode doesn't yield results over the long run. It would be more beneficial to me to be able to switch it ON and OFF, because no human deserves to be under Ti pressure 24/7 lol.
     
    #20 philostam, Jun 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
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